Anyone wishing for an electric car for Christmas?

[forddeliveryboy]

I suspect things will be little different from today, the masses will be told their machine is unrepairable and it'll be scrapped or end up in the hands of enthusiasts who have access to people in the know. Perhaps the biggest problem will be as battery tech alters and newer types don't fit (either physically or electronically).

[Micrashed]

 

Chorley Asda yesterday

[garethj]

I agree, just because the culture now is to repair old cars, doesn't mean it'll stay that way.  It wasn't long ago when TV repair shops were in every town, a good one might dabble in repairing vacuum cleaners too.  Now, it's a proper minority interest.

 

How do electric cars do heating?  Is it with something like an Eberspacher fuel burning heater, or do they use electric heating?

[Pillock]

Good point, electric heating seems really wasteful....

 

I'm fascinated by the technology, less impressed by the current limitations. They need better range, or to charge quicker - I probably pass half a dozen charge stations on my way down the motorway, but I don't have the time to charge every time the range says I will have to.

[meshking]

I'm hoping they use wood stoves, with a big chimney out the front. Seriously though, what's up with these free charge points? Are the ones in asda free?

[seacow]

Good point, electric heating seems really wasteful....

I'm fascinated by the technology, less impressed by the current limitations. They need better range, or to charge quicker - I probably pass half a dozen charge stations on my way down the motorway, but I don't have the time to charge every time the range says I will have to.

It is electric but super efficient apparently. Having it on affects the range by about 5 miles on a full charge. I'm the same as you on limitations. It could never be our only car but I am surprised by how much more than the proper car we do use it. Rapid chargers can give you nearly a full charge in 20 minutes otherwise a destination charge at a station or shopping works well. The range of the tesla sis better and when you factor in fuel savings isn't as dear as it sounds. Not cheap either mind you!!

[tooSavvy]

To be fair, when the general populace sat watching the 1st series of Star Trek, 1966.. WHO THOUGHT.. we would all be talking & watching Utoob on a 'Phaser'??

 

A casio wristwatch has more computing power than the digital racks of Apollo!

 

Charnock Richard M6S has 3 points.... all full yesterday. No Note just Hybrids.

 

 

TS

[Pillock]

Oh yeah, we'll get there eventually no doubt.

 

Can't help thinking that a better car to shove some volts into would be an 80s hatchback - imagine a 'leccy Mk1 Fiesta. No gadgets to run the battery down, 700-odd KGs to move instead of twice that, and a proper amount of room for batteries instead of daft NCAP-friendly sloping bonnets.

[oman5]

Yes asda charge points are free. With new build stores it tends to be a requirement from the local council that charging points are installed.

[Micrashed]

Anyone know what voltage / current these charge points are?

 

Freeeeee 'lecky.....

[forddeliveryboy]

It is electric but super efficient apparently. Having it on affects the range by about 5 miles on a full charge. I'm the same as you on limitations. It could never be our only car but I am surprised by how much more than the proper car we do use it. Rapid chargers can give you nearly a full charge in 20 minutes otherwise a destination charge at a station or shopping works well. The range of the tesla sis better and when you factor in fuel savings isn't as dear as it sounds. Not cheap either mind you!!

 

Earlier models used direct electric element heating, ooof! I think it's now a heat pump, but someone I know with a Zoe complains it's weak. Yet the insulation is huge, noticeable especially in the roof.

 

If I had an EV, a small woodstove would be installed (recharged with dead leaves and twigs from the roadside as well as sandwich wrappers and other mess people leave in your car), or some simple form of central heating with a 25 litre drum of hot water filled at home then pumped through a small rad. By the time it had cooled much, the battery would be dead.

[FredTransit]

Yet you don't worry about where all the hydrogen will come from? That's the biggest issue with hydrogen - that and the fact that while petrol bombs make a bit of a mess, hydrogen bombs ruin your entire country. Everyone touts hydrogen as the future, but you still need masses of energy to produce the stuff.

 

A fair concern about worrying about where electricity comes from too. Especially now a power station has melted in Oxon.

 

 

what I meant was, where is the CAPACITY for electricity going to come from? 

[meshking]

France and their nuclear stations?

[Tayne]

Don't the French now own some of our nuclear stations?

[dollywobbler]

I saw my first Tesla Model S today. It is a fine looking machine. Maybe they'll be autoshite in 2034?

[forddeliveryboy]

Twizy is a little more autoshite and probably more fun than a Tesla, you can even buy side windows for them now.

[Uncle Jimmy]

No.

[Tayne]

G-Wizz is more autoshite than a Twizzy.

[filthyjohn]

I can vouch for the heater in the leaf being quite good actually. A plus point is you can programme it to warm the car up for you before you get in it on a cold morning. They're a nice drive too, and it's such early doors for the (rebirth of the) technology.

[AnthonyG]

G-Wizz is more suicidal than a Twizzy.

EFA

[garethj]

I'd quite like an electric car, to be honest I'm not wedded to the idea of burning petrol or diesel; I'd have a Mr Fusion-powered DeLorean or a Stanley Steamer in a heartbeat.  Some IC engines make a nice noise, big deal because most don't.

 

I wonder how long the cost benefit will continue due to tax.  For the moment the Inland Revenue get money from petrol and diesel, that goes into the bottomless pit.  If more people buy electric cars and the revenue from petrol & diesel falls, do you think they'll say:

 

1. Ah well, at least everyone's driving ecological cars nowadays, we'll just make do with less money.

2. Shit, the public are dodging fuel tax like it's the red diesel craze all over again.  Don't worry, we'll get the money somehow.

 

So maybe they'll start taxing how you charge or track how many miles you drive your new car, or something else.  Maybe it'll be more expensive than motoring is right now where you can buy a car for £500 and drive the length of the country for £100.  Maybe it'll just be poor people (holds up a mirror) and the eccentric (hands a mirror to Panhard65) who use IC engines in the near future.  A bit like people used horses in the 1950s, it'll be us lot and the rag & bone man putting petrol in, everyone else will be swishing around in electric cars.

[dollywobbler]

I'm driving a Tesla on Thursday. This is quite exciting. Later this month, I'm also playing with another electric Nissan. Not a Leaf. I hope it still has the heated steering wheel. Best invention ever.

[dollywobbler]

I have driven a Tesla Model S today. Electricity is very exciting. 

 

However, I wasn't impressed that I jumped out of a car specced up to £98k and into my £375 XM with tired spheres and immediately felt much more comfortable. I think the Tesla must use leather-clad anvils or something and the ride isn't much better.

 

But, an electric car with a genuine range of 200+ miles is a game-changer, even if only very wealthy people can afford it. I'm almost more excited about Tesla than the car - a completely new car company with new ways of thinking. That's pretty much unheard of apart from obscure sports cars that hardly anyone buys.

[Inspector Morose]

And I've spent a day talking with a nice engineer from GKN about their flywheel technology. Seems batteries aren't the only way to store electricity reliably. And there are developments with larger and longer lasting storage coming soon.

[forddeliveryboy]

And I've spent a day talking with a nice engineer from GKN about their flywheel technology. Seems batteries aren't the only way to store electricity reliably. And there are developments with larger and longer lasting storage coming soon.

 

And super capacitors - ideal for the urban environment and typical commute. I wasn't aware they'd overcome that massive problem with flywheels to the extent they're going to be practical for energy storage in everyday cars, what's the solution?

 

 

I have driven a Tesla Model S today. Electricity is very exciting. 

 

But, an electric car with a genuine range of 200+ miles is a game-changer, even if only very wealthy people can afford it. I'm almost more excited about Tesla than the car - a completely new car company with new ways of thinking. That's pretty much unheard of apart from obscure sports cars that hardly anyone buys.

 

Game-changer? How, just because you can drive another 100 miles, before needing to put in a significantly much greater charge before proceeding another 200 miles? It's exactly the same problem, just further along the road. Paying another £xx,000 for another 100 miles is a game-changer though, in profit terms.

 

What's exciting about Tesla? They're following fashion, with better/much more expensive batteries and electronics. For a start, if I had any money and was even contemplating an EV the name would put me off. Authenticity is important when spending shit-loads of cash on something which does little more than a bog-standard Toyota or VW. Anyone who knows anything about the man whose name has been used would find it slightly tawdry and potentially enough to put you off, image-wise. If their cars did 700 miles on a single charge at the equivalent of 300mpg (worked out using energy, not cost) and could cruise at over 100 at better than 100mpg, there would be slightly more of a case for the name. As it is, it's just another piece of automotive bling.

 

Tyre size? 35 profile 21 inch, or 45 profile 19 inch if you're poor(er). And almost a quarter of a metre wide, at 245mm. For fuck's sake.

 

It takes a company with the integrity and knowledge of BMW to realise that such sizes are totally stupid for any EV - its sporting i8 uses 195mm rubba, the practical i3 beautifully tall and skinny 155/80R19s - skinnier than a 2cv, relatively - but with similarly generous levels of grip. The Bavarian company seems to be playing to the intelligent, for the first time in a long time (presumably because they realise their first EVs have to be good), whereas Tesla looks to be seeking the rich and shiny-loving, regardless of brain quality.

[jonny69]

We did some of Route 66 last summer. When we landed in Chicago I was quite surprised by the number of EVs I saw on the freeway. They have quite a few EVs that we don't get over here.

 

This restored service station is particularly famous on the Illinois stretch of Route 66 as it was open pretty much from the beginning and ran until the mid 90's I think:

 

 

On the left of it I spotted this in the park-up bay:

 

 

As some of you know, I work in carbon accounting. Last week at a conference we were talking about a few emerging technologies that are looking to make use of storing excess energy from renewables when we have it (e.g. high wind conditions) so that we can use it later. At the moment it is wasted if we can't use it. One of the ways is to use the excess electricity to electrolyse water into hydrogen and chemically combine it with CO2 to make methane. The process isn't as efficient as directly producing and using hydrogen, but it totally eclipses all of the storage and distribution issues with hydrogen. Methane can also be used as a direct substitute for petrol, diesel or LPG.

[dollywobbler]

Game changer because when I tried a Leaf, its real-world 60-80 mile range locked me to within reach of home. In a Tesla, I could drive to Peterborough or London on one charge. After 200 miles, I'd probably want a decent-sized break anyway. It's also actually attractive - rare in the executive class these days. Yes, it aims for the tech-luvvies, but seeing as they tend to be wealthy, that seems sensible. Here's a car that can be upgraded after purchase. Tesla will still send you free updates that actually give you new functionality.

 

I will fully admit that the tyres were stupid. I was in one with 21" wheels with rubber shrink-wrapped onto them. The ride was dreadful, made worse by dreadful, rock-hard seats. The Leaf has superb ride comfort, which goes very nicely with the refinement of electric power. However, when you've got that much performance (0-60mph in 4.2 seconds) I can see why such grip is necessary. It still isn't enough given my findings. (i8 has 215 width tyres at the rear by the way). 

[Micrashed]

Audi 250 mile range

https://www.audi.co.uk/audi/audi-innovation/concept-cars/e-tron.html

 

Rob bank to pay for it NOW

[Negative Creep]

The other thing that always seems to be conveniently forgotten is that you need a driveway or dedicated parking space to charge one, which the majority of people in city centres do not have/ The last government's policy was to deliberately make too few spaces in new builds to "encourage" people to give upo cars. Naturally no one did this and there's just parking chaos everywhere. So where would all these charging points go?

[Inspector Morose]

Contactless charging has advanced rapidly of late. What would stop roads being fitted with this so, theoretically, you could charge your car as you drive. Say motorways and major trunk roads are fitted thusly and then cars would use pure battery power for driving around town.