Honda Inshite - now collected - the end.

[Asimo]

The yellow tape hasn't helped the water leaks even though the roof seams were themselves dry under the tape. Weird. Towels and dehumidifier will have to do for now.

 

Spent the daylight stripping trim out in search of airbag system connectors to check. So far without success.  I wish cars were all metal and screws on the inside rather than plastic clips and everything hidden where it can't be fixed.

[Asimo]

Found some time at work when the workshop was empty and the boss away so I could fix the roof leaks in the warm and dry.

There is a lot about water leaks on the Insight forum so I was clued-up before I started.

To cut a long story short, I stripped the interior out entirely to dry it and clean out the water from under the electronics and battery area.

Hoping to fix the airbag light for the mot I opened and cleaned all of the airbag and belt tensioner system connectors that I could find.

The leaks were caused by cracks in the joint sealer used over the joint between the roof panel and the side and rear pressings. These problems lie under the plastic moulding along the whole edge of the roof.

This moulding is held on with expensive plastic clips which have to be cut off or broken  so replacements were got from the 'States for a quarter the price from Honda UK, ie about £30 both sides rather than £120.... for 16 plastic clips.

 

It is weird working on an aluminium car.

Scrape off the paint and seam sealer around a leak on a 15 year old car - and underneath is pristine shiny metal!

With it all cleaned up and "seem sealer" removed,  holes like this one at the rear of the passenger door are revealed. That clip can allow water in too apparently.

 

 

All holes filled up with silicone rubber sealant now and happily waterproof.

 

So once water-proofed, back in with the interior - hateful job at first, but once I got into it it didn't take that long.

 

Honda agent did a code read and reset and the airbag light went out - thank fuck - and issued an mot with only two advisories, a tiny chip in the 'screen, (outside of the zone) and a rear axle bush*

 

The IMA battery did not enjoy being largely unused for three months and the amount of "boost" available is now pretty small. I hope it improves, if not I will have to come up with some sort of charger to ensure all of the individual cells of the battery are as full as they can be and then maybe swap out the bad cells.

 

If I can be arsed.

 

It works fine as a small underpowered and overgeared car even without the IMA system working, and is still good for 65 mpg as such. I can't help thinking that without all of the electro hybrid stuff it would still be an interesting car and Honda could probably have sold many more for much much less.

 

But I always think things are improved by simplifying them.

 

Replacing the big battery was always going to be likely (it is the original) but I want to avoid that for as long as possible.

I could have more fun with the £1800 a new one costs. I could fit it with a Wartburg 2stroke engine for example. Always wanted to try a 2 stroke car............

 

* "Bushes not available seperately. A new axle beam is available at about £800 plus fitting"

Parts prices for this car are loopy, more than £500 for a tyre according to Honda. (165/70-14)

 

 

 

[twosmoke300]

You can charge the ima battery by holding it at a certain rpm for a while . 2200 iirc

[hairnet]

tyres - even michelin eco ones arent mad money camskill ftw

 

all the posh branded ones are 60 or less

[forddeliveryboy]

I'm sure if you took the axle to some bush specialists they'd soon replace the knackered rubber.

[stripped fred]

Just read this thread. I've always liked these cars. Definitely ahead of their time. Harry Metcalf of Evo mag had one in his collection for a while. I suppose it's the sort of car you can spend a bit of money on knowing it won't lose value and will probably go up if anything especially as so few of them on the road.

[Asimo]

 it won't lose value

 

 

Obviously I hope that you are right about that but it will only be true if I look after it "properly" and keep it original etc.

Which does involve being more of a "Classic Car" person than a 'shiter.  

Not sure if I can make such a change of attitude after a lifetime of scrimping, bodging and modding.

[stripped fred]

Obviously I hope that you are right about that but it will only be true if I look after it "properly" and keep it original etc.

Which does involve being more of a "Classic Car" person than a 'shiter.

Not sure if I can make such a change of attitude after a lifetime of scrimping, bodging and modding.

Might not be the right car for you in the long-term then.

[Asimo]

Have the top off the electronics box for the first time to fit a connector so that I can connect a trickle charger.

 

I now have to safely connect to both terminals of the 144v battery somewhere down below those heavy orange wires. The switch in the middle of the unit effectively cuts the battery in half, so in the off position there are two 72v batteries: safer but not safe.  Gloves, goggles and insulated tools required. I do have years of experience working on live electric kit at these voltages, but it is still intimidating! 

[danthecapriman]

I know what you mean, I do a lot of live working, usually 110v batteries and mains 240v (415v three phase) at work. I work for one of the big six power grid network operators.

Rubber insulated gloves and insulated tools are a must, I use a full face visor too, as goggles might save your eyes but being splattered with molten metal and battery acids isn't going to do your face many favours!

 

I've never seen a hybrid opened up like that before. I had always assumed the battery packs were a lot bigger than that?

[Asimo]

 

Battery is 20 of these sticks of 6 cells. The cells are the standard D size but of a special type that can discharge at 100 amps and charge at 50 amps. Because they are all in series, the power available is limited by the weakest cell in the chain. That is where the trickle charger comes in: if gently charged, these cells cannot be overcharged: when full they just warm up a bit and no damage results. So 10 or so hours at 1/3amp should top up even the weakest.

Amazes me that they are any good at all after 15 years.

 

A lot of trouble to store nearly 1kWh of energy as electricity, petrol equivalent is about a wine-glass full.

[Asimo]

 

Charger in action. Meter is showing battery voltage, which increases from around 150v when cold and not very charged to 170-ish when charged and warm.

 

The charger is simply made from a constant current driver intended for driving a string of LEDs.

 

 

It was ideal for this, designed to push a constant 1/3amp into a 100v to 200v load. All I had to do was put it into a box with suitable cables and connectors to make it all safe and dependable.

 

And it does work. After an overnight charge the battery ECU has to be reset by taking a fuse out and waiting for a few seconds. After that, the ECU twiddles about for a few miles trying to establish what the battery condition is and, having decided it is fully charged, then displays max charge on the meter and allows full electric boost with full throttle.

 

The throttle pedal had a lot of dead travel so today I adjusted the slack. This makes it easier to drive smoothly; I should have done this immediately, not left it for nearly a year!

 

The duct from the airfilter to the throttle body had to come off to do this and when I removed it I was puzzled to find a sensor (induction air temperature?) hanging free and useless on it's wires instead of being snug inside the duct. It will be interesting to see what difference measuring the right temperature makes to how it goes and what it drinks.

 

Noticed the injector seals look perished.

 

Next job  better be taking the wheels off and checking pads / linings etc. A bit naughty not to have done this yet after nearly a year. Then new aux belt, re-fit undertray, valve clearances................

[carlo]

Another fascinating thread I missed first time round.  Have to confess to disliking most Hondas because of their obsession with a 'high revving, no torque philosophy' but this machine has always appealed to me, in concept and appearance especially.

 

Reminds me in many ways of the Citroen M35 wankel of 1969, a uniquely styled futuristic, almost concept vehicle.  At least Honda didn't end up buying them all back!

[Alexg]

Another here who missed this until now. Always fancied one of these so been a great read.

[cort1977]

Great thread.

 

I saw this a few weeks ago, slightly related and might be of interest?

 

http://hoonable.kinja.com/how-i-turned-a-dead-civic-into-a-plug-in-hybrid-for-10-1699191285

[Asimo]

Isn't it good when cars just - work?

 

Had this more than a year now and it ticks and bounces along in it's own Honda way. 7500 odd miles at about 70mpg. Since I got it I have seen three others on the road, two the same colour as this one.

A max down the private* test track shows 108mph at 4000rpm in top, I think it would be more in 4th.

It is a comfy place to sit for driver and passenger and is at it's best on long cross country trips, where the roads are smooth! (the ride is tiresomely bouncy, there is very little spring travel).  

 

Using it has improved the steering, which was really stiff initially. (Electric power assistance) 

The water leaks remain fixed, thank you silicone sealant, but the airbag light came on again recently.

 

Checked plug gaps and valve clearances today. Still within acceptable range. 

 

 

Nice and clean in there. Wonder how the Vtec gubbins works?

 

 

Iridium tipped plug. These are available in four variants that are matched to the individual positions of each individual cylinder head. This palaver is to position the earth electrode at the correct angle when the plug is torqued up,  to prevent the earth electrode shrouding the spark from the swirl of the (very weak) mixture. A 3 electrode plug won't do apparently, because it is not possible to know which of the three electrodes the spark will happen at.

Still haven't had the wheels off to inspect the brakes, nor swapped the (fraying) auxilliary belt or replaced the undertray. No point, time for new oil. It doesn't use any oil at all. The engine is really rattly when it is cold, a feature apparently - piston slap made more audible by very light engine weight.

 

Highlight of recent months of course is the Dollywobbler road test! 

[hairnet]

been looking at mk2s

[skattrd]

I do fancy one of these myself as well, but can't afford atm, maybe next year.

[Asimo]

During a tour of the "silly names of places in south Worcestershire" last week the airbag light came on. Just in time for next weeks MOT. The previous owner had twice paid to have it reset by Honda, which is what I did too last year. All of the Internet's tricks for reseting the code were to no avail last time but I will give it another go.

Nearby used to be a lane called "Drinkers End", but I couldn't find it, suspect it may have be re-named. 

The sign has been stolen. (Probably by the residents association)

 

[Asimo]

Trying to sort the Secondary Restraint System warning lamp.

Last year the fault code referred to seat belt tensioners, this year the "blink code" tells me   "high resistance in passenger airbag module".

 

Unplugging the airbag changes the reported fault to   "open circuited airbag module".

 

Connecting 1Ω in place of the airbag changes the report to  "short circuited or low resistance".

 

So all three possible reports as to the resistance of the airbag squib make sense.

 

The plan, of course was then to fit an appropriate value resistor to satisfy the SRS control box and then clear the code. Lots of irritable faffing about has failed because 1.5Ω is seen as two high a resistance, 1.4Ω is seen as two low.

Airbag is actually, and is supposed to be, 2Ω and yes, I was WELL out of the line of fire when I measured it!

 

Tomorrow I will remove and open the CPU, clean every contact and reflow any likely solder joints. If the module is openable!

 

No surprise that the SRS parts are expensive, there is a parts car on eBay for less than the cost of an airbag system, so fingers crossed.

Passenger bag - £950

Drivers bag and reel £709

CPU £543 

 

Arse. Anyway, fitted the new  water pump & A/C belt (no alternator),

replaced the undertray and lots of those irritating plastic clip things. Another oil and filter change and, at last,

got the wheels off to check the brakes etc. Some rust to worry about on a few brakepipes but otherwise all seems ok.

I like the aluminium brake drums - like new, and a bit Panhard.

 

Pressure washed the paint off of the couple of blebs on the door bottom.

I knew that might happen, it was like a scab, I just had to pick it.

[dollywobbler]

Oh wow. So good to see rear drums on a car like this! Discs on cars that barely use the rear brakes are a stupid idea. 

[skattrd]

... Discs on cars that barely use the rear brakes are a stupid idea. 

 

I say that to quite a few people when they go on about rear disc conversions on older/smaller cars.

[Eddie Honda]

Honda SRS box. First hurdle is five point Torx security screws. After that, the whole board looks to be coated in lacquer. Laser do a nice screwdriver set, details when I get home. I've one that is fucked, but it may have done itself in due to dead battery/jump starting. Might need to clear the memory chip with a reprogrammer/Pole with.laptop. I'm sure it'll get fixed, if not, 50 quid for secondhand and wipe the crash data from it.

[fatharris]

Great, now I want one, and they're not 50p.

[garethj]

If the PCB is coated in what looks like lacquer that's conformal coating, it's usually there to keep moisture out.  Once you've done any fixing by cutting and peeling the coating off (be careful not to peel off any surface mount components) you can buy a tin or aerosol spray to reapply it.

[Asimo]

Apart from polishing the headlight lenses clear and charging the batteries a few weeks ago I have completely ignored this until this week when suddenly a bit of bodging mojo surfaced. Made up a little circuit to turn the airbag light off after a few seconds.

 

MOT at 1pm today!

 

Edit - I did remove and inspect the airbag controller - no odd screws - but everything inside was immaculate, top quality assembly, perfectly dry and conformally coated. So no clues there.

[fatharris]

Good luck, we're counting on you!

[Asimo]

[spartacus]

Yayyy! Get the wire brush and the grease for the brake pipes and you're all sorted.

[Asimo]

Somewhere during the great software update crisis I moaned about not using this car and that it had hardly moved since the MOT, which had been expired for months, and that I ought to do something like get rid.

Instead I gave myself a talking too, started driving it to work, took it to Honda who properly turned off the airbag light with their diagnostic wallet emptying device (£54), got my mojo back and started getting some miles on it with airport trips, a funeral near Morecombe and other bimbling around just for the fun of it. About 1300 miles in the last 3 weeks.

Thats better. Even my wife has stopped mentioning how surplus this car is now she has noticed it uses less than half the fuel of any other vehicle we have.

 

But it has been a bit spluttery, lurching at small throttle openings around 2000rpm / 56mph in top, just where you need good throttle response. Annoying.

One good thing about Insight ownership is that because it is a nerdy persons car, and nerdy people like the internet, there is easy internet access to a great deal of knowledge about these cars. Many if not most were sold in the U.S. so that much of it is in English too.

Consulting the Insight hive-mind about the splutters pointed the finger at the EGR valve, specifically to the wear of the variable resistor that provides feedback to the engine controller of how open the valve is. New EGR valve, a sealed not-repairable assembly, from Honda is about £300.

I took the EGR valve off, good access, considered swapping it with similar looking one on my wife's redundant Civic, bad access so didn't bother, and with it on the bench made sure that the wee poppet valve bounced up and down when current was applied to the actuating coil with a handy stack of old laptop batteries. Measured the resistance of the variable resistor with the valve open and shut  and yes it did vary but that was too crude a test to show if it was faulty or not.

I have "fixed" audio gear - where the fault is crackling noises when the volume control (another sort of variable resistor) is operated - with a few squirts of contact cleaner/lubricant.

This is easy to do and free, works on most things with variable resistors so why not Hondas?

So after looking at internet photos of an EGR valve in bits I drilled a 3mm hole through the centre of the plastic cap of the unit where the variable resistor is and squirted in a good dose of contact cleaner. Shook the thing about a bit and then, with the batteries, banged the valve open /shut etc repeatedly. 

 

Fitting was the reverse of removal. (For once) I sealed up the little hole I had made with pvc tape and had a drive.

 

Success! For now at least. No more stumbling and shuddering, drives as it should. 

 

Because every story needs a picture, here is the valve, meter, drill, batteries and all important contact lube.

The EGR valve is stood on two blocks of wood so the little poppet valve has room to move when current is applied to the valve. The solenoid that moves it is quite powerful and I didn't want it jumping off the bench. The hole I drilled is in the centre of the plastic bit by the numbers.