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Korean Cortina - MOT day


mat_the_cat

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Ha, I'm only remembering stuff as I'm doing a lot of research at the moment. Ask me in 6 months and I'll be like "R-what again?"

Car systems are generally over-specced for the volume they have to cool anyway (to be able to lower the temperature quickly on a hot day), so any loss of efficiency may be masked by a longer compressor cycle time, or slower cooling. I'd imagine larger systems are specified a lot more precisely, and the same percentage loss of efficiency could have significant effects on both performance and cost to run.

This arrived today, although I still need a vacuum pump before I can test and fill the system.

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Although it may not be enough to completely fill the system, it should be enough to get it working, and I can either get another cylinder, or take it somewhere for a top up once lockdown has receded. It doesn't look like I can buy a larger, better value cylinder without an FGAS certificate.

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More progress!

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My cheapo Chinese pump arrived today, so I can pump down the system. I pumped is down for half an hour or so, then monitored for any pressure change. I did get a bit of leakage to start with, which was fortunately just down to one of the charging hoses not being tight enough.

Once nipped up there was no detectable vacuum loss. I'm going to leave the pump running overnight, to give it the best chance of getting to ultimate vacuum and boil off any moisture that may be present.

Annoyingly, the hoses don't fit the gas bottle, so I'll either have to buy or make something to adapt it. As it's charged in the vapour state, it doesn't need to withstand massive pressures.

But to charge it with gas I need to run the engine, and to do that I need to repair the heater tap so I can refill with coolant. Hopefully my O rings will have arrived by the weekend...

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If I only delayed what I add to this thread by 24 hours I could filter out the fails, and make it appear as though everything works first time! I decided against leaving the pump running overnight (given its build quality) but instead isolated the valves to the system and turned it off. This morning all vacuum had leaked :-(

I'm trying to kid myself it's the charging hoses (they're all tight this time!) rather than the system itself, but in reality I doubt it. I've pumped it down again, then disconnected, so will reconnect the gauges and see if there's still a leak. If so I'll need to pressurise the system, and use some soap solution to see if I can determine where the leak is. If by some miricle the gauges jump down to their previous position, I'll know the system is OK.

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On the bright side, the new O rings arrived today, I fitted one in the heater tap and it's all gone together OK. Again, it's passed the air test, but need to see what it's like with hot coolant.. There is more resistance to movement in the valve though, which I'm taking as a positive :-)

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Sadly, no miracles today :-( The charging hoses have retained their vacuum, but not the system. I've managed to pressurise it, and soapy water shows no leaks in the engine bay. So my best guess is it's my dodgy welding which is letting me down, but I need to do a bit of dismantling to get access. It's not big enough to be audibly hissing, so if I can't trace it will have to get some dye in the system.

I'm not *quite* as despondent as I could be though, as the heater tap is back together, and after running the engine up to temperature there are still no drips! At least part of my HVAC system is leak-free...

I have actually realised that I've forgotten something with the installation too - as it stands there is nothing to stop the evaporator freezing up! I did know I needed a thermostat, otherwise the compressor will be on the whole time, but it had completely slipped my mind :oops:

Hopefully better news next time.

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Thanks to Trigger I've just been searching through my old videos (trying to find a Foo Fighters gig) and I happened on a bit of nostalgia, just to remind me how far it's come! 

Engine as bought, in 2001:

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Fitted into the car, late 2003 from memory.

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Wired in but not plumbed in, with just a garden hose for cooling!

 

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Back out with the evaporator yet again, and I connected it up to the compressor to see if I could find a leak with soapy water (using an appropriate blanking plug on the other hose).

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Ah yes. That would do it.

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Looks like I missed grinding out all of the porosity, so ground it right back and welded again. It passed a soapy water and immersion test, so I'm semi-confident it'll be ok. It's all under vacuum now, so just playing the waiting game!

I've also fitted a thermostat, wired in using the correct Hyundai colours...

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...then routed the temperature sensor into the centre of the evaporator.

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It's no exaggeration to say that I'm probably going to lie awake tonight, wondering if it'll leak!

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I was up at 0730 this morning ON A SUNDAY to check the gauges! Happily they hadn't moved, so I started to feel a bit more confident. I had to go and drop some supplies round at my father in law's this morning, so couldn't make a start on actually filling it with refrigerant until the afternoon.

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First step was to connect it up, and purge the air from the yellow hose by allowing a little gas to escape.

Then start the engine, and flick the switch!

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Nothing would happen at this stage, as the trinary switch would not be closed until the pressure builds up. Open the BLUE valve to allow gas into the low side of the system: 

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Hmmm, something isn't right. Pressure should be higher on the red gauge, if the compressor is working. No sign of liquid at the receiver drier either.

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A bit of head-scratching and poking around with a meter revealed that I hadn't put the compressor fuse in the slot, and with that in place the revs dropped, and things started to happen!

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I'd placed a temperature sensor in the air vent, so I could monitor what was going on. With some excitement I watched it drop to just below 9 degrees C! 

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As intended, the twin fans did not cut in straight away, but only when the pressure required it. It seemed to stabilise at 40psi on the low side, and 200psi on the high, so I disconnected it so I could go for a drive.

It's difficult to describe the culmination of several months work, and many years planning. I'd actually been planning AC even before the engine swap, as I find it really does make a big difference to my comfort level. Suffice to say I had a large grin on my face as it was noticeably cool getting into the car (ambient of 20 degrees C).

I was hopeful of getting the vent temperature down a bit once on the move, with more airflow and the compressor spinning faster. So, what did I get down to?

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I'd call that a fucking RESULT! It all seems to work better than I could have imagined :-) I may need to do something about the drop in idle speed with the compressor on, but Edelbrock do a solenoid for that very purpose.

Obviously I've got to put the dash back together, and I still need to fit the evaporator drain, but I'm well chuffed!

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All I need now is to go on a road trip and actually use the thing! Can't wait for restrictions to be lifted, and go on a nice long journey. But thanks - I am well satisfied, although half expecting it to have all leaked out by morning...

The next job though, is to sort out the gearbox leak - I've used about a litre already this year! At least the underside has a nice coating of oil.

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Those numbers sound reasonable.

Screenshot_20200517_235502_com.bitzerus.refrigerant.ruler.thumb.jpg.b8e6626775c7a8088eee7542d1029440.jpg

Screenshot_20200517_235814_com.bitzerus.refrigerant.ruler.thumb.jpg.7b24d748bdb8cfa384986dadbf8047c9.jpg

If you're running an Android tablet or phone, that app can be found here: Linky here.

Edit: Why the fluff am I posting that information when you've got a set of gauges which already have a scale on them calibrated for the refrigerant you're using!

Edited by Zelandeth
Because I'm an idiot!
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It's of interest anyway, so thanks. I'd considered filling with a different refrigerant if I didn't get the performance, so the gauge markings would have been of little use in that case. I was wondering about R290 (i.e. Duracool aka propane) but safety/legality was a concern, as was the fact I wouldn't be able to get anyone else to work on it if filled with a non-standard refrigerant.

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So, how much did it all cost?

Compressor                          £155    Sanden SD5H09 (NOS)
Compressor bracket 1        £25    Unused as couldn't easily adjust belt tension
Compressor bracket 2        £70    
Condenser & fans                £45    Rover 45 Rimmers clearance stock
Pad mount adaptors           £75    Required to connect my bargain condenser!
Hoses and fittings                £140    
Extra fittings required         £50    Half unused, bought to trial different orientations
Spare O rings & PAG oil        £10    
Hyundai Amica evaporator £45    Unused (too big)
Universal evaporator           £65    Global Air EV1000D
Thermal expansion valve    £30    200 Series Discovery
Evaporator thermostat       £30   
Receiver drier                       £30    Car Builder Solutions
Bulkhead fittings                  £30    Car Builder Solutions
Trinary switch                        £20    Car Builder Solutions
Relays/connectors etc.      £30    
Drive belt                                £5    
Radiator fan switch             £10    
R134a                                      £50    
Crimping tool                       £150    
Vacuum pump                     £80    

All in, including a few bargain NOS items, £1145. But if you take out the tools (the crimper was a Christmas present anyway), and the parts bought but unable to use, the cost comes down to a more reasonable £810. If you had to put a price on labour though, I dread to think! Looking it as a hobby though, it was mostly enjoyable (maybe apart from the bits with my head in the footwell), and worth the time and money spent.

It'll be cheaper next time...

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Just caught up with the last few instalments.

You flippin hero!

Tell you what, having seen how much was already going on under the bonnet of the Stellar, if you’d said you were going to install aircon I’d have just laughed.  Massive respect sir.

Just in time for summer too ?

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On 5/17/2020 at 9:16 PM, mat_the_cat said:

I may need to do something about the drop in idle speed with the compressor on,

You could use the same system that the CX used.  It had a "auxilliary throttle bypass" port.  Basically a pipe that went from before the throttle plate (but after the MAF) to after it.  It had a solenoid and a manually-adjustable valve in it.  The solenoid is in parallel with the compressor feed, so that when the AC compressor is on, you get a settable amount of  "extra throttle".  It was possible to get these absolutely bang on so that you couldn't tell the AC had cut in at all.  I used to set these up so you actually had a slight rise in revs with the compressor running, as then the cut in/out tended to be less noticeable while driving, but that's very fine balancing.

 

Edit.  scratch that.. this is on carbs isn't it.  Bums.  Short of additional drillings in both carbs, that's going to be impossible.

I don't think I've ever worked on a car that had working AC on carburetors.  Do many of them have an idle-raise system?  I know it's far less of an issue on Diesels as the idle is already speed-governed rather than power-governed. (IE this isn't an issue on your BX is it.)

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49 minutes ago, Talbot said:

You could use the same system that the CX used.  It had a "auxilliary throttle bypass" port.  Basically a pipe that went from before the throttle plate (but after the MAF) to after it.  It had a solenoid and a manually-adjustable valve in it.  The solenoid is in parallel with the compressor feed, so that when the AC compressor is on, you get a settable amount of  "extra throttle".  It was possible to get these absolutely bang on so that you couldn't tell the AC had cut in at all.  I used to set these up so you actually had a slight rise in revs with the compressor running, as then the cut in/out tended to be less noticeable while driving, but that's very fine balancing.

 

Edit.  scratch that.. this is on carbs isn't it.  Bums.  Short of additional drillings in both carbs, that's going to be impossible.

I don't think I've ever worked on a car that had working AC on carburetors.  Do many of them have an idle-raise system?  I know it's far less of an issue on Diesels as the idle is already speed-governed rather than power-governed. (IE this isn't an issue on your BX is it.)

Run a line from the air box to a T in the vacuum line for the brake servo or another vac line?

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9 hours ago, Talbot said:

I don't think I've ever worked on a car that had working AC on carburetors.  Do many of them have an idle-raise system?  I know it's far less of an issue on Diesels as the idle is already speed-governed rather than power-governed. (IE this isn't an issue on your BX is it.)

Not an issue, but my idle speed is on the high side anyway, as the max fuel screw has been wound out slightly*. I've adjusted the 'throttle' stop as much as I can but still idles around 1000rpm.

8 hours ago, Zelandeth said:

Run a line from the air box to a T in the vacuum line for the brake servo or another vac line?

That would just lean it off though, no?

This was my plan: https://www.edelbrock.com/idle-compensator-kit-for-all-edelbrock-square-bore-carburetors-8059.html

And to be honest, the idea of a bolt-on solution is rather quite appealing at the moment! I'll see how it goes though, as I haven't actually stalled it yet - just feels like it may be prone to it. I don't spend much time in traffic anyway, but I'd like it to be as usable as possible.

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9 minutes ago, mat_the_cat said:

Not an issue, but my idle speed is on the high side anyway, as the max fuel screw has been wound out slightly*. I've adjusted the 'throttle' stop as much as I can but still idles around 1000rpm

Have you adjusted the idle speed lever stop to compensate?  I would have thought you can get that down to something a little less hurried.  That sounds like it's stuck on cold fast idle speed all the time.  Has yours got the idle speed thermal "thingy" in the thermostat housing with the cable that adjusts the idle speed?

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For the Stellar, would it be possible to replace what the idle throttle stop screw bears against with a small cam that is driven by a solenoid?  That way you keep your settable idle throttle stop, but when the AC kicks in, the cam rotates and lifts the idle speed.  Could be an interesting little sub-project.

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1 hour ago, Talbot said:
 

Have you adjusted the idle speed lever stop to compensate?  I would have thought you can get that down to something a little less hurried.  That sounds like it's stuck on cold fast idle speed all the time.  Has yours got the idle speed thermal "thingy" in the thermostat housing with the cable that adjusts the idle speed?

Yes, that's literally as low as I can go! The cold start unit I do have (although isn't it a timing advance on a Bosch VE pump?) I renewed that in 2012, mainly as Vanny let me have one but no change. No biggie though. 

1 hour ago, Talbot said:

For the Stellar, would it be possible to replace what the idle throttle stop screw bears against with a small cam that is driven by a solenoid?  That way you keep your settable idle throttle stop, but when the AC kicks in, the cam rotates and lifts the idle speed.  Could be an interesting little sub-project.

I may well do something like that, once I get bored, and the reality of "HOW much?!" hits me for the proper Edelbrock part. Just that at the moment I'm doing the simple job of ducting and dashboard reassembly, and it's quite enjoyable just slotting things together - rather than fabricate this and that, then realise you have to do it all over again as there's something else further down the line that you haven't considered.

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1 hour ago, mat_the_cat said:

Yes, that's literally as low as I can go! The cold start unit I do have (although isn't it a timing advance on a Bosch VE pump?)

I'm unsure on this.  My experience is that the cold-start cable on the 1769cc TD engine injection pump actuated a timing advance lever.  If you move that lever while the engine is running, you can hear a clear change in the injection sound, but minimal change in engine revs.  That lever is on the "front" of the pump (IE closest to the radiator.)

The 1.9TD injection pump that I have experience of from 405s had the timing done with an electronic (or at least electrical) unit built in to the very bottom of the pump.  The cold start cable went to a small lever on the back of the pump (IE towards the engine) which had very little movement, which appeared to be a governed idle speed lever, as if you move it the idle speed changes, but it makes sod-all difference in driving.

Which injection pump do you run?

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