Sir Snipes Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 42 minutes ago, mat_the_cat said: I'm not able to determine any visible difference on the gauge - but there's very few scale markings so impossible to say for certain. The worrying thing is WHY it's shifted so much. I first thought it's down to setting a linear toe measurement initially. This was done with larger wheels, so once the original wheels where re-fitted this would make the toe measurement smaller. But that doesn't explain why the figure is different side to side. I wonder if things could just settle over time? All bushes were new, and the car spent around 10 years supported on axle stands, although all bolts torqued up with weight on the wheels. Could the shell have relaxed a bit now weight is taken by the wheels rather than the chassis rails? Anyway, spent part of today playing with the damper settings to try and find the sweet spot between wallowing too much, and an overly firm ride. Think I've finally got there Time for another @dollywobbler video I reckon! It won't be the wheels and it won't be wear and tear or new parts settling. Only tends to get that bad when parts are replaced and they aren't adjusted (wishbones or track control arms and ends). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat_the_cat Posted September 1, 2019 Author Share Posted September 1, 2019 Nope, they were all new before putting it back on the road. Absolutely nothing has been adjusted or replaced since the first alignment and the most recent one (apart from the wheels). Puzzling. I can't see how changing the wheels *wouldn't* have affected the measurements though - in the manual there is a toe value in mm, which then has to be converted to an angular measurement. That angular measurement (assuming the mm value is measured at the tyre outer diameter) will differ depending on the size of tyre fitted. Or am I missing something? Agreed that settling is unlikely! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayMK Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 There is often slightly differing geometry going on between suspension and steering bits (track rods) depending on the type of suspension and its design i.e. at normal ride height the specified figures for toe-in etc should not cause excessive or uneven wear on tyres. If you have perfectly set up geometry and then put a significantly different load on the suspension (engine change?), the previously perfect settings may need adjustment to bring them back in to tolerance. I don't know whether this applies to the chronology of your tracking sessions or indeed how significant an effect it is with your Stellar's Cortina based unequal length wishbone front suspension/rack and pinion steering. By far the most common reasons for tracking to go 'out' on an unmodified car are: New suspension and/or steering components; collapsing rubber bushes or worn bearings/ball joints; suspension components and or their mountings being slightly bent by extreme shock loading such as hitting potholes or hard kerbing. I have always had a strong interest in suspension design because it involves geometry and physics, though as an 8 year old with lots of Meccano and little understanding of either I was able to build and test many configurations to see which gave the best ride, how much roll was induced by cornering and indeed some interesting effects of cornering on swing axles depending on the relationship between wheel diameter and axle length. A bit later, making some of these self designed suspensions to include steering, I began to realise that the geometry had to be quite clever to maintain wheel alignment under different loads and also to accommodate steering lock without excessive scrubbing. Anyway, regardless of my suspender fetishes, I really enjoy the updates in this thread and admire the standards of fit, finish and general workmanship that you are able to achieve. This even applies when you talk electrics, an area where I have reduced interest resulting from only ever having to know the basics when I was at work. rainagain, LightBulbFun and Tadhg Tiogar 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat_the_cat Posted September 2, 2019 Author Share Posted September 2, 2019 Thanks Ray - that is a very interesting point about a different load meaning that the suspension could be sitting in a different part of its travel to that which it was designed around. Having said that though, my biggest puzzle is why the change from the first alignment in 2014: and the current one: No new steering components, and only the dampers changed suspension-wise. 10mm wheel spacers removed, and a change from 195/60R15 tyres to 185/70R13, giving a 26mm difference in the overall diameter. No shock loading, and no detectable wear or bush collapse. This may be something I have to check more frequently until I can see whether it's stopped changing! As for electrics, I may talk about those rather more than other aspects, as they hold the most interest to me! Thanks for the kind words though LightBulbFun 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat_the_cat Posted September 4, 2019 Author Share Posted September 4, 2019 Over the last few weeks I've been collecting parts, the latest to arrive was this box: Brand 'new' although at a price I could forgive the tatty box and likely a while in storage Just the hoses, expansion valve and evaporator left to source now, although collecting parts is the easy bit! I won't be fitting anything until the winter, but a) I like to grab a bargain while I can and b) it gives me plenty of time to play around with locations and plan brackets. The receiver drier is easy to place, just tucked behind the offside headlight. This is on the right side of the condenser to run a hose from, and then the outlet to the evaporator can run around the edge of the engine bay. The compressor location is a little bit more tricky to access, so I think I'll wait until the radiator is out. The good news is there seems to be plenty of room, so I just have to make some kind of mount which allows the unit to swivel so the belt can be tensioned. RayMK, Lacquer Peel, Shep Shepherd and 6 others 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heidel_Kakao Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 Do you have an idea of how much the AC will affect the fuel economy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat_the_cat Posted September 4, 2019 Author Share Posted September 4, 2019 If fuel economy was a major concern, I think I've fitted the wrong engine! It depends a lot on the ambient temperatures - if we assume the compressor is engaged all the time (it shouldn't be if I size everything right, but as a worst case scenario) it will absorb 2kW of power when turning at 3k rpm, or about 3bhp. The engine is going to be producing around 100bhp at that sort of speed (from my rolling road graph) so around 3% of the total output will be used to power the AC. I'd expect a similar percentage increase in fuel consumption if I maintain the same speed. With typical UK temperatures the compressor will only be engaged a proportion of the time, so the average effect will be less. However, looking at studies which have measured economy losses, generally above urban speeds you will lose more mpg by opening the window to keep cool (as it creates a big drag) than by putting AC on. Round town, when an open window produces little drag and the load from a compressor is a more significant proportion of the engine's output at idle, then the situation is reversed. I've tested on my BX by keeping the AC on for a tankful and off for the next, and the difference in mpg was no more than typical tank to tank variation. I'm not too worried Banger Kenny, Heidel_Kakao, UltraWomble and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heidel_Kakao Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 That's not so bad then, I have thought about fitting AC to Cedric one day so I will be watching this with interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Snipes Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 Will you have to change the heater/thingy that blows air into the cabin? I remember in oldish celicas they use to leak and it was a dash-out job to change. Edit: heater matrix? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tadhg Tiogar Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 Interesting to see a Sanden compressor. Sandens seem to have been fitted to CXs that had the AC option, although mine had to be different and I found it was labelled Seiko. I thought Seiko made watches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat_the_cat Posted September 5, 2019 Author Share Posted September 5, 2019 5 hours ago, Snipes said: Will you have to change the heater/thingy that blows air into the cabin? I remember in oldish celicas they use to leak and it was a dash-out job to change. Edit: heater matrix? The actual heater matrix is the mini radiator within this housing: Not sure what to call the whole thing, HVAC unit I've often heard it referred to as (heating, ventilation and air conditioning). I seem to remember there was space internally for the AC evaporator, as it was an official option when new. So I'll have to scour parts lists for one of a suitable size, or get one made to suit. LightBulbFun 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat_the_cat Posted September 15, 2019 Author Share Posted September 15, 2019 I have made my first bracket, so work has officially started! I had a bit of trouble finding matching connectors for the pressure switch, but have now sourced some so I can make a start on the wiring. This weekend saw a 600 mile road trip to visit friends, and I was quite pleased to get a consistent 26 mpg over two tankfuls, sat at a cruise controlled 70 mph. Dropping the final drive ratio should improve that further. Less pleased that I think my battery is on the way out, as the engine died when I pushed the choke in too early, and cranking speed quickly dropped. I've inadvertently flattened it a few times recently just from having the radio on for a few hours, so reckon that has killed it. Also, I had a bizarre alarm problem, in that it armed itself while I was going along, then sounded, and locked the doors! I had to drive along with the siren going, hazards flashing until I could pull over and disable it. Might have to send it back to Sparkrite and try to claim a refund... The Moog, Banger Kenny, Lacquer Peel and 7 others 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat_the_cat Posted September 20, 2019 Author Share Posted September 20, 2019 I've used Tayna Batteries for a few years now, as I've mentioned before. They seem to be one of the cheapest online suppliers, but even better when they are local and you can save the delivery charge! So I popped in today so they could test the battery, and sure enough they pronounced it dead. It had 9 months of its 4 year warranty left, but the only other time I've had a battery fail within warranty (some 20 years ago with Kwik Fit), I discovered that the refund was on a pro-rata basis. So I wasn't expecting much towards the replacement, especially as the price had gone from £55 to £73 in just over 3 years (the exchange rate hasn't helped ). But to my surprise it was a new for old replacement! Banger Kenny, tooSavvy and Tickman 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat_the_cat Posted September 22, 2019 Author Share Posted September 22, 2019 This afternoon I made a start on the AC wiring, starting with the radiator switch as I want the second set of contacts to operate the twin condenser fans if the coolant temperature continues to rise. If I'm using non-insulated crimps I prefer to tin the wires first, then crimp, then solder to ensure a good electrical connection. The downside of soldering is that the solder can wick up the conductors slightly, leading to a sharp transition from rigid to flexible which can fail under vibration. Crimping the strain relief part of the crimp onto the insulation *after* soldering avoids this risk. The connectors then snap into the multi-way block... ...which plugs into the new coolant switch. Same method for the pressure switch connectors, which were a pain to source. Then ran the wiring to a new relay for the additional twin fans. I still need to wrap the loom, which I'll do once I know everything is working correctly. Aside from running a wire from this relay to the yet to be installed fans, and connecting up the compressor, that's all the wiring done! And here's the view from the inside: (Half toying with the idea of swapping out the amber LED for a blue one, which wouldn't have been available when the car was new I was most surprised to find an LED in the first place!) stonedagain, MorrisItalSLX, Skizzer and 4 others 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asimo Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 I think VW were using blue leds for main beam indicators in the 1980s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelandeth Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 8 minutes ago, Asimo said: I think VW were using blue leds for main beam indicators in the 1980s. Silicon carbide ones - and the only commercial application I'm aware of them having been used. Given that lighting tech has been an interest of mine for decades I'd just about to give my left arm to get hold of one. Kick myself for not grabbing the panel out of a really early Polo in a scrap yard a few years back... Modern blue LEDs just look out of place in a car of this age I think...if you want to go that way for reliability reasons use a warm white LED and a blue filter. Would look right then at least. mat_the_cat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat_the_cat Posted September 22, 2019 Author Share Posted September 22, 2019 That's a common misconception, as they looked just like LEDs (as the rest of the 'bulbs' were), but the blue LED was only invented in 1993. I know this fact as back in the 90s, a research student I knew claimed to have invented it and would soon be coming to the marketplace (probably knowing that they would soon become commonplace and hence he'd gain some kudos). I knew they were already available commercially (at a price!) so did some research and proved him wrong... EDIT - having just checked Wikipedia, I am wrong! It was the first practically useful blue LED in 1993, but the silicon carbide LED was invented in 1989. Coprolalia 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelandeth Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 Interesting...what chemistry was the one used by VW based on then? I know they didn't use them in all cases, some were incandescent lamps with a filter, others used an amber LED. My T25 (1980) had a red LED for main beam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tadhg Tiogar Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 46 minutes ago, mat_the_cat said: (Half toying with the idea of swapping out the amber LED for a blue one, which wouldn't have been available when the car was new I was most surprised to find an LED in the first place!) There were HVAC LEDs in my 1983 635CSi, and red ones in the Check Control panel. Plus red, yellow and green ones in the service indicator. 17 minutes ago, Asimo said: I think VW were using blue leds for main beam indicators in the 1980s. Certainly were. Mk.2 Golfs and Jettas had them, as did the rest of the range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat_the_cat Posted September 22, 2019 Author Share Posted September 22, 2019 20 minutes ago, Zelandeth said: Interesting...what chemistry was the one used by VW based on then? I know they didn't use them in all cases, some were incandescent lamps with a filter, others used an amber LED. My T25 (1980) had a red LED for main beam. I would imagine that once the gallium nitride ones became reasonably priced, they switched to those, but certainly in the early 90s they were still using an incandescent bulb with a blue cap on the T4 (others were LEDs). I was most curious to find out whether VW had adapted blue LEDs this early, so I stripped out the instruments in a scrapyard with the sole intention of finding out! Golf Mk2 was the same: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat_the_cat Posted September 22, 2019 Author Share Posted September 22, 2019 15 minutes ago, Tadhg Tiogar said: There were HVAC LEDs in my 1983 635CSi, and red ones in the Check Control panel. Plus red, yellow and green ones in the service indicator. Certainly were. Mk.2 Golfs and Jettas had them, as did the rest of the range. Yeah, I realise amber LEDs were available then - just struck me as surprising that a budget car would use one over an incandescent bulb, which I'm guessing would be cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightBulbFun Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 I feel compelled to link this exchange here https://autoshite.com/topic/34915-2001-a-space-auditiy-audi-a2-content/?do=findComment&comment=1781716 (also because it made me grin like mad ) (id quite like to add a 1970's transistor packaged LED to the collection some day, and then worry about not losing it!) mat_the_cat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asimo Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 I thought I had some of those, but they are just a couple of TIL 31 IR leds, the sort in gold TO 18 sized packages. Sorry! LightBulbFun 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat_the_cat Posted September 25, 2019 Author Share Posted September 25, 2019 More shiny* bits have arrived! I've managed to grab a complete Capri V6 diff, not just the crownwheel and pinion. If this is less worn than my diff I can swap the whole thing, otherwise just the CWP. It'll be the first time I've delved into the internals, apart from the simple task of changing the wheel bearings. I may as well change the diff and pinion bearings while it's all in bits too. Anyone reading this who has experience with the Ford Atlas axle? There's some interesting info here: https://www.classicfordmag.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/definitive-guide-to-atlas-axles-classic-ford.pdf but at the moment I haven't seen a definitive guide to preload and backlash values. Good news is that my 3.44:1 diff should be more valuable than the 3.09:1 unit I've just bought I should add that I've not found anyone online who's swapped bits from a Capri to a Cortina axle, or vice versa, so I'm not 100% sure it's possible! Biggest potential stumbling block is the pinion length, as if that's significantly different I haven't got a hope. MorrisItalSLX, RayMK, LightBulbFun and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightBulbFun Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 very cool stuff! do you plan to fit the new setup with a LSD? out of curiosity does this increase your top speed any given the longer gearing? that PDF made for a very interesting read, its made me think once again about the diff in the Model 70, I have wondered from time to time what its ratio it is, sadly the workshop manual does not go into detail on that aspect (its said to be a normal Fiat 500/126 diff, so I wonder what options would be available if you were say building a Model 70 with a 660cc TRII racing engine for example! and I also wonder if the Diff in a Model 70 is a standard Fiat 500/126 ratio or something different specifically for the Model 70) mat_the_cat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat_the_cat Posted September 26, 2019 Author Share Posted September 26, 2019 I'm guessing on an Invacar you can't (easily) actually count the number of input turns for a revolution of the wheel, like you can with a normal live rear axle? Yes, it will increase my theoretical top speed, but I've never tried to see what it can do now, and am unlikely to any time soon even after the swap. It's more to give a less revvy cruise when on motorways, with the bonus of more mpg and less thermal load on the cooling system. In-gear acceleration will drop, but I'll be able to hang onto each ratio for longer, so in practice that should balance out - I reckon I'll gain more improvement not having to change up so soon than I'll lose in the acceleration. I've struggled to find what ratios were available for the 2wd R380 'box, as some sources suggest that the van versions were the same as those fitted to Morgan's and other car applications. But that doesn't stack up with the revs I am seeing. I'm not planning an LSD at the moment, but not ruling it out. Mainly cost reasons why not getting one now, as it's still going to be another £130 for axle bearings, plus the remaining AC parts. On that subject I'm wondering about getting a vac pump myself and filling the system at home. Reason being I don't know how much refrigerant the system will require, so may need repeat trips to get the right fill if I take it somewhere. Plus with my own vac pump I can leave it pumping overnight for the initial evacuation, and make sure the system is very dry. LightBulbFun 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightBulbFun Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 3 minutes ago, mat_the_cat said: I'm guessing on an Invacar you can't (easily) actually count the number of input turns for a revolution of the wheel, like you can with a normal live rear axle? Aye sadly not the gearbox/diff is one big lump, I THINK you could do that if you disassembled the chain case and counted from there, but that would require significant disassembly its in there somewhere! 14 minutes ago, mat_the_cat said: Yes, it will increase my theoretical top speed, but I've never tried to see what it can do now, and am unlikely to any time soon even after the swap. It's more to give a less revvy cruise when on motorways, with the bonus of more mpg and less thermal load on the cooling system. In-gear acceleration will drop, but I'll be able to hang onto each ratio for longer, so in practice that should balance out - I reckon I'll gain more improvement not having to change up so soon than I'll lose in the acceleration. I've struggled to find what ratios were available for the 2wd R380 'box, as some sources suggest that the van versions were the same as those fitted to Morgan's and other car applications. But that doesn't stack up with the revs I am seeing. I'm not planning an LSD at the moment, but not ruling it out. Mainly cost reasons why not getting one now, as it's still going to be another £130 for axle bearings, plus the remaining AC parts. On that subject I'm wondering about getting a vac pump myself and filling the system at home. Reason being I don't know how much refrigerant the system will require, so may need repeat trips to get the right fill if I take it somewhere. Plus with my own vac pump I can leave it pumping overnight for the initial evacuation, and make sure the system is very dry. aye I was just asking out of curiosity/ to make sure I had things understood correctly (one of the fun things about the Game beamng drive, apart from the realistic crash physics' is they strive to make the rest of the car pretty realistic, and you can go to the parts menu and swap out different diff ratios etc, which makes understanding this sort of thing quite easy when you can see the affect it has right in front of you) I did a bit of a quick googling, you may have already seen this http://www.gomog.com/allmorgan/gearboxes2.html but since you say your gearbox was rebuilt I wonder if someone fitted a set of close ratio gears to your box? first a vacuum pump, then before you know it you have lengths of glass tubing, a bottle of neon and a blow torch and suddenly you have an Autoshite neon sign Banger Kenny and mat_the_cat 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat_the_cat Posted September 26, 2019 Author Share Posted September 26, 2019 I've always fancied a neon sign, even more so now you rarely see them out there! Never thought about making my own... I will have to calculate what ratios are actually fitted - see if that sheds any light. But it's just struck me today that I'm making the assumption that my rear axle is really 3.44:1 (the tallest ratio fitted to a Cortina) as stated on the tag. If someone has fitted something daft like a 4.11:1 diff in there, that could explain a lot, and would be rather a big drop to a 3.09:1. I will count the teeth when I strip it down, so at least I'll know for sure, but for now I can work out an overall ratio. LightBulbFun 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightBulbFun Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 33 minutes ago, mat_the_cat said: I've always fancied a neon sign, even more so now you rarely see them out there! Never thought about making my own... aye I have always wanted a Neon sign from a very young age, I did at one point get gifted a bit of strait "neon" tubing from a neon sign shop, its bright pink in true autoshite fashion but id like a proper custom sign someday, sadly from what I have seen they can be quite expensive being cold cathode devices, in the scheme of things they are not the hardest thing to make yourself I know someone who makes them in his old childhood bedroom! (he has recently had some success making some hot cathode fluorescent tubes which is very exciting) the main thing is getting the equipment to do all the vacuuming/gas admistring and bombarding, luckily you can get pre made electrode ends, which you just seal onto the glass tubing of your choice, so you dont have to worry about making your own electrodes 33 minutes ago, mat_the_cat said: I will have to calculate what ratios are actually fitted - see if that sheds any light. But it's just struck me today that I'm making the assumption that my rear axle is really 3.44:1 (the tallest ratio fitted to a Cortina) as stated on the tag. If someone has fitted something daft like a 4.11:1 diff in there, that could explain a lot, and would be rather a big drop to a 3.09:1. I will count the teeth when I strip it down, so at least I'll know for sure, but for now I can work out an overall ratio. ah the fun game of is it what it actually says it is?! as you have probably seen, I run into that a lot in the Invacar thread as well! (on the note of overall ratio I have been able to figure out roughly the overall ratio of the Model 70 drive line if that makes sense, and I calculated that the engine makes peak power in a Model 70 at 66Mph (since the workshop manual says at 60Mph the engine is doing 4500RPM (with the CVT system going into fixed ratio mode above 45Mph) and steyr puch says the engine makes peak horsepower at 5000RPM, so I can divide 4500 by 60 and get the magic number of 75 then divide 5000 by 75 to get 66.6Mph keeping in mind the CVT setup goes into fixed ratio mode above 45Mph) mat_the_cat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat_the_cat Posted September 27, 2019 Author Share Posted September 27, 2019 Don't give me ideas! On 9/26/2019 at 10:12 PM, LightBulbFun said: 66.6Mph The velocity of the beast! I've been doing some calculations (based on driving at set rpm in each gear) myself, and if I make the assumption that the 2.3 Cortina axle contains the standard 3.44:1 diff, my gear ratios are as follows: 1st - 4.81:1 2nd - 3.04:1 3rd - 1.82:1 4th - 1.21:1 5th - 1:1 If however, I do have the 'standard' R380 ratios, that means I must have a 4.11:1 diff ratio. Once I fit the 3.09:1 diff I'll either be geared to a realistic 134 mph (rather than the theoretical 120 mph at present), or a massive 161 mph! Which I doubt I'd have the power (or the balls!) to reach. LightBulbFun 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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