Spiny Norman Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 I'd argue the Princess was a far more advanced bit of engineering than the SD1. Apart from the styling, what was new & exciting about the SD1?Don't get me wrong, I love them (& Princesses too) but very few other BL cars do much for me because as a company in the 70s BL tended not to DO 'new & exciting'. We, as old car lovers look fondly back at old BL chod through rose tinted glasses but unfortunately back in the day when they were new cars that you were considering buying with your own hard earned, people only saw the breakdowns, shoddy build quality and strikes. Then they compared the often outdated and 'uncool' BL cars to what was coming out of Japan or Europe at the time and made their choices. John F, warren t claim and eddyramrod 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilko220 Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 From what I recall though, Escorts and Cortinas were never all that "cool" when they were new either - even 2-door ones...I don't think rose tinted views of the motoring past are restricted to BL fans! eddyramrod and Banger Kenny 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiny Norman Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 I don't think rose tinted views of the motoring past are restricted to BL fans!No, they weren't, but for some reason Fords still sold by the bucketload compared to the BL offerings. Better marketing I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilko220 Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 To a point perhaps, but I think it can be overstated. From Wikipedia: [The Morris Marina] was one of the most popular cars in Britain throughout its production life, narrowly beating the Ford Escort to 2nd place in the UK car sales table in 1973[6] and regularly taking 3rd or 4th place.[7] The car was also exported throughout the World, including North America, and assembled with varying degrees of popularity in Australia, New Zealand and South Africa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shep Shepherd Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 ^I can't help thinking that if the Allegro was introduced as the mark 2 Escort and the Princess was introduced as the mark 4 Cortina, they would have been million sellers and revered classic cars today... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkman Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 No, they weren't, but for some reason Fords still sold by the bucketload compared to the BL offerings. Better marketing I guess. Ford had a global organisation behind them, so if British workers or suppliers went on strike, demand was simply fulfilled by upping the production a little in Genk, Saarlouis, or Cologne.Similar situation for Vauxhall.Why do you think the UK vs. German models were ever more aligned and harmonised? oman5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brickwall Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Don't forget that the Marina was big on the fleet lists as companies were encouraged to buy British. Mind you Ford and Vaux. were big too! Anyone ever have a USA spec MArina The MArina was huge in Iran and they may have been assembled there as well. I read sometime back that the Shah was interested in 25% of BL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkman Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Apart from the styling, what was new & exciting about the SD1? Technically it was at least contemporary. The exciting thing about it was that it was the only V8 hatchback worldwide, and one of the fastest saloons.So you could be both, dad AND sporty gentleman driver at the same time. Plus, it didn't look out of place when parked in front of your Molnar Villa, which every German offering at the time in the same market sector decidedly did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John F Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 ^I can't help thinking that if the Allegro was introduced as the mark 2 Escort and the Princess was introduced as the mark 4 Cortina, they would have been million sellers and revered classic cars today... Er... no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkman Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 ^I can't help thinking that if the Allegro was introduced as the mark 2 Escort and the Princess was introduced as the mark 4 Cortina, they would have been million sellers and revered classic cars today... Allegro and Princess are among the fastest appreciating classics today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shep Shepherd Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 ^Really? Must be some sort of ironic thing Banger Kenny 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilko220 Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 I suppose it's easy for something to appreciate significantly in percentage terms if it's from a starting point of almost no value at all though! Banger Kenny and John F 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkman Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 I suppose it's easy for something to appreciate significantly in percentage terms if it's from a starting from almost no value at all though!See Escort MKII. And countless others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John F Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 They're certainly appreciating over last month's figures, but only at the same rate as old fridges: Cavcraft, warren t claim and hauserplenty 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkman Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Series 1 Allegros and VDPs have definitely left Autoshite territory by now and the days for Series 2 examples being still in it are numbered.Better Princesses are now knocking at the 2 bags door and it won't be long until they have firmly passed it. Interestingly, Series 2 examples seem to command a premium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxobarges_Are_Us Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Classic car status is not a guide to whether a car was any good when new. For all its advanced looks, technology etc, the Citroen CX is still pretty much firmly in shite territory. You can't give old Toyotas and Mazdas away (apart from a couple of exceptions which are seen as GR8 4 DRIFTN), even if they were infinitely more reliable than the 'bona fide classic' Triumphs and Hillmans (Hillmen?) against which they were competing. Pete-M 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John F Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Also, the age of a vehicle is no gauge of its value. Likelihood is, if it looks shit, drives shit, has no sports pedigree and is only remarkable in that it has few or no remarkable characteristics except shitness, it'll be worth half a licked Twix. Once it dies out to the point where there are only a few left (according to 'howmanyoftheseshitheapsareleft.com'), it might eventually be worth a whole Twix (licked). Yes, a few dyed-in-the-wool enthusiasts and chiselling bastards like Purple Helmet might ascribe largely-fictitious values to them based solely on their rarity, but this has no bearing on their real-world desirability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket88 Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Technically it was at least contemporary. The exciting thing about it was that it was the only V8 hatchback worldwide, and one of the fastest saloons. So you could be both, dad AND sporty gentleman driver at the same time. Plus, it didn't look out of place when parked in front of your Molnar Villa, which every German offering at the time in the same market sector decidedly did. Technically, it was far less advanced than the car it replaced [P6]especially the rear axle. It's body construction was also far less sophisticated than the P6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardM1 Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Nowdays, If you are being balloted for industrial action/voting to accept or reject, you do it from the comfort of your own home and you can do it without revealing how you have voted.No more intimidation or having the shit kicked out of you to make you tow the line and no show of hands bollocks in car parks. Its that which really changed things.I doubt If there would have been half the strikes in the 70s had people been allowed to vote the way we do now.Yes, there is still a "them and us" thing going down. I think my management are clueless twats and they think, because people like me have been on the tools for nearly 25 years, we are inflexible dinosaurs that they would LOVE to replace with black one legged lesbians because they are a "Dynamic 21st Century business that embraces diversity etc, etc.They deny all this, of course...Thing is, Im fully aware that I work with some utterly useless, lazy, cut and run merchants that the Company would dearly love to fuck off out the door but they cant.Workers have rights, as they should, but it now protects the wanker and pisses of the grafter who has to run behind them sweeping up their shite.I, probably, vote at least once a year, normally on a pay offer.There is no longer the stomach to strike, we simply cannot afford to and, to be fair, my Union has NEVER, in all the years ive been there, ever recommended Industrial action.Conversely, they seem to recommend that their Posties come out every fuggin week. Wont they get a fucking shock when they are privatised. Going off topic slightly but that description sounds familiar freebird, do you work for openreach by any chance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oman5 Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 But with the SD1 it was a case of BL trying to emulate the more successful competition and actually build a car that would make a profit. It was less technically interesting than the p6 because it was designed to be a lot easier and cheaper to build a conventional live axle, front macpherson strut car than the de dion rear end P6. and because the buying public didn't give a stuff about what was under the skin. It was an attempt at normality, and certainly addressed the criticism of too much reliance on Issigonis designs which frankly whilst very clever were ugly, spartan and unwanted by most. 1977 car of the year. a BL car with a substantial waiting list from people who ACTUALLY WANTED TO BUY IT. (until they found out the cars weren't put together properly, anyway) . An executive saloon designed to look like a supercar with a soundtrack to match, a v8 powered pseudo muscle car still capable of 30 mpg.I will champion its cause always, the design and styling was fantastic, it should have been one of the biggest saviors of BL, on looks alone it sold itself which was a real novelty for a BL design, to the extent that you wouldn't know it was made by the same firm that did the marina. as usual the shitty build quality and the really quite appallingly penny pinching interior and electrics let it down. One of the few cars I've driven that really has soul, and puts a smile on your face when you drive it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew353w Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 freebird, on 14 Jul 2013 - 12:11 PM, said:Nowdays, If you are being balloted for industrial action/voting to accept or reject, you do it from the comfort of your own home and you can do it without revealing how you have voted.No more intimidation or having the shit kicked out of you to make you tow the line and no show of hands bollocks in car parks. Its that which really changed things.I doubt If there would have been half the strikes in the 70s had people been allowed to vote the way we do now.Yes, there is still a "them and us" thing going down. I think my management are clueless twats and they think, because people like me have been on the tools for nearly 25 years, we are inflexible dinosaurs that they would LOVE to replace with black one legged lesbians because they are a "Dynamic 21st Century business that embraces diversity etc, etc.They deny all this, of course...Thing is, Im fully aware that I work with some utterly useless, lazy, cut and run merchants that the Company would dearly love to fuck off out the door but they cant.Workers have rights, as they should, but it now protects the wanker and pisses of the grafter who has to run behind them sweeping up their shite.I, probably, vote at least once a year, normally on a pay offer.There is no longer the stomach to strike, we simply cannot afford to and, to be fair, my Union has NEVER, in all the years ive been there, ever recommended Industrial action.Conversely, they seem to recommend that their Posties come out every fuggin week. Wont they get a fucking shock when they are privatised. Going off topic slightly but that description sounds familiar freebird, do you work for openreach by any chance? S'funny, I thought he worked for H.M.R.C.! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cavcraft Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 All we need now is 'All new cars are shit' and along with the banger racing thread and this one, we'll have our usual quota. warren t claim, freebird and trigger 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 I think he does work for Openreach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freebird Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Going off topic slightly but that description sounds familiar freebird, do you work for openreach by any chance? Unfortunately, yes. RichardM1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freebird Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 All we need now is 'All new cars are shit' and along with the banger racing thread and this one, we'll have our usual quota.How about a "All new cars should be bangered" thread?No?Ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardM1 Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Unfortunately, yes. Ah, thought so - I'm a CSE in Norwich! Do you know if there's any others lurking on here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John F Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Lurkers! Get them! RichardM1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rml2345 Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 I'd read it somewhere that the SD1 had a live rear axle for engineering reasons rather than cost. It was a simpler way to build rear suspension where the wheels would remain upright during cornering, this retaining maximum amount of tyre on the road. The idea was that if you have more tyre in contact with the road you'd have more grip. It's the same theory used on the P6 suspension set up, just simpler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lacquer Peel Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 FUCK OFF YOU TEDIOUS FUCKS = 90% of this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiny Norman Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 FUCK OFF YOU TEDIOUS FUCKS = 90% of this thread. And back at you.... If you see a thread that doesn't interest you, just bypass it, what's so fucking hard about that? It really pisses me off on here when some folks feel the need to constantly stick their oar in when others are happily having a discussion that they personally aren't interested in.If you've heard it all before or aren't interested, just hit the 'back' button on your browser and find another topic to talk shit about. It's a forum FFS, go look it up if the concept confuses you. freebird, Wilko220, Banger Kenny and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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