Petrol V Diesel

[Tonka]

Despite having owned well over 100 cars in my 32 year driving history I have never ever owned a diesel.............. is there something wrong with me?

[Junkman]

Not at all, m8. Not at all.

If you want to save petrol, burn nitro instead.

 

[Bobthebeard]

Or LPG....

[warren t claim]

As much as it loathes me to say it, diesel is the way forward.

 

The basic engineering facts are that you can only squeeze a spark ignition engine so much on the compression stroke before it goes pop but in a diesel engine all you're compressing is air as opposed to air/fuel mixture so the scope for further improvement is pretty limitless.

 

Give it fifteen years and petrol engines will only make up about 10% of the new car market.

[Spiny Norman]

Cue the pic of the horse running at the train.....

 

Can't imagine me ever buying one, for all the usual reasons petrol heads hate Diseasels....

Ironically it's the modern ones I really can't stand, I might not kick a nice rattly old XUD Cit or Pug off the driveway.

[dollywobbler]

Not sure I agree WTC. Look at the amount of crap they're having to bolt to diesel engines to try and clean them up. If they put their minds to it, they could get more mpg out of petrol engines and diesels would be redundant. If anything, I think the glory days of diesel have been and gone.

 

I'm a big fan of diesel - I like the low down torque - but I also like the spirit of a willing petrol engine. I don't think I could consider owning a petrol-engined BX though.

[eddyramrod]

I have owned a diesel (one) and I've made a career of driving them. On my own time, for my own use, bought with my own money.... it's got to be petrol. Others may have different opinions, usual terms and conditions apply, no warranty given, etc etc...

[406V6]

As much as it loathes me to say it, diesel is the way forward.

No matter what the benefits of a diesel engine vs petrol (and I'm in the petrol camp) if you're having a proper argument you need to consider availability and cost of the fuel. When crude oil is broken down in the refinery you get a certain amount of light oils like petrol and a certain amount of heavy oils like diesel. The proportion varies according to the type of crude oil. Today the UK needs to import a small amount of refined diesel to meet demand because the proportion is unbalanced. So if the demand for diesel goes up further, the price will go up even more. In future the supply of diesel may well get tighter compared to petrol. With the laws of supply & demand being what they are the petrol / diesel cost balance will even itself out.

 

Of course if you're using chip fat instead of diesel none of the above applies.

[Albert Ross]

Get a series Land Rover. 62hp straight out of the box, and you KNOW you're driving a diesel.

[Cavcraft]

Not at all, m8. Not at all.

If you want to save petrol, burn nitro instead.

 

 

 

Ok, it's not a Scottish motorway or a 60mm bolt. I give up, what is it?

[barmatt]

Get a series Land Rover. 62hp straight out of the box, and you KNOW you're driving a diesel.

 

I had a drive of a Slla naturally asthmatic doozil landy the other week and while it was slow,the pleasure of driving a 40+ yr old bus made the speed totally irrelevant.

 

I did manage to get it to 60mph at one point though

[oldford]

Modern diesels are a lovely drive and economical. I wouldn't have one now that I've seen the repair bills associated with them. turbos, injectors, pumps, dual mass flywheels - you can wipe out your fuel cost saving very easily.

 

Diesel engine development is pretty much at the top of its game, there's only so much that can be done to refine them and meet the emissions requirements. It seems to me that manufacturers are concentrating more on their petrol engine development.

[Micrashed]

Get a series Land Rover. 62hp straight out of the box, and you KNOW you're driving a diesel.

Square port Talbot incarnation of the 1700 non turbo XUD and then you know you are driving a diesel....

43bHp

 

Bangernomics by Micrashed, on Flickr

[Tonka]

Spent tonight helping my Stepson to replace the EGR valve and fuel filter housing on his Vectra, my garage now stinks, it's on the driveway where the housing had leaked from a crack, step outside the back door and you can smell it even though I have scrubbed the floor and I smell of it now which pretty much convinces me that it is not the way forward!

 

Working with modern Land Rover's it's all EGR valves, fuel pressure reg. leaks, high pressure pump or injector failures, why would you buy something that is supposed to be more economical, costs more to fill up, but is likely to cost more to maintain?

 

If I ever buy a newish car again it will be one of the lastest small capacity high output turbo'd petrols which seem to be the real future.

[dollywobbler]

YouTube for Clarkson on diesels in about 1991. He predicts that diesel will never take off because the extra cost over petrols - on fuel and initial purchase price - make it impossible. He was quite wrong.

[Mr Lobster]

Had a couple of diesels and whilst they were ok I wouldn't go back to them now. Yes they are good on fuel but the ability to go wrong and take all your money with you when they do outweighs that to me. Certainly modern diesels anyway, older stuff I'd be quite happy to run - my '95 Citroen AX 1.5D was a belter.

 

Bought a newish car for Mrs L last year (2010 Mazda 5 2.0) and decided that as it will probably get towards 150k in our hands then a decent size, normaly aspirated petrol was probably a better long term bet. Yes its thirstier than a diesel but servicing and general running costs are less, it doesn't have the added complexity of a diesel and doesn't sound like a truck so a win as far as I'm concerned.

 

Also, as a used car it was around £2.5k cheaper than the equivalent diesel of the same age as the petrol isn't the easiest thing to sell at present.

[R9UKE]

Out of my some 120 cars, under 10 have been diesel. I hate them.

 

Modern diesels are absolute pish ... When I say modern I'm talking the earlier naughties stuff. Already mentioned - EGR valves, all that crud just waiting to go wrong. Given my soft spot for Renaults it's a bloody good job I don't like diesels as I'd either be bankrupt or perfectly preserved in a pickle of engine oil, carbon monoxide and bits of engine in a Laguna somewhere.

 

Classic example are two aunts of mine. Both have a Grand Espace, one is a 3.5 V6 petrol, the other a 2.2 dCi. Aunty dCi spent the first few months of ownership ridiculing aunty V6 about her 40 mpg and how you'd have to be mad to run a petrol today. Aunty dCi's smugness was short lived. Endless fuel injection warnings causing the thing to go into limp mode, buckets spent on unclogging EGRs and reprogramming computers. Injector failure, TWO turbo grenade incidents, one of them requiring a new inter cooler. Fuel consumption after these near engine rebuilds has struggled to top 32 MPG and the thing literally sounds like its about completely eat itself. The 3.5 V6? The only maintenance costs consist of an annual service. Oh yeh, and there's no belt to change on it either. I haven't done the math but even though the 3.5 does about 18 MPG, I can guarantee aunty V6's Espace has cost her about half that of the dCi.

 

My diesel experiences have consisted of a BX (my first). Wasn't especially economical, slow and tbh most of the faults that made me hate it were with the rest of the car. Then came two Vel Satis 2.2 dCis. Turbo failure for both, one never got more than 25 MPG. Citroen C5 2.2 HDi came after. Dropped into limp home mode every time you pulled onto a motorway with an Anti-Pollution fault. Was seriously slow everywhere anyway, so you didn't really notice limp mode cutting in. Some modern diesel trickery causing it no doubt.

 

On the plus side are my recent experiences. The 3.0 diesel V6 in the Vel Satis is just fantastic. Not a Renault unit so no 2.2 like carry on. Endless torque, flexible for all situations and a real monster for the fast lane of the motorway. Averaged 44.7 MPG from Birmingham to Cairnryan. Never dips below 33 in town. FOR A V6!!! It's the only diesel I've come across that I could drive everyday. But.... Would I have it over the 3.5 V6 petrol? Nah.

 

The old Clio I have as a work horse at the moment is great as well. Just for the sense of occasion if anything. 1.9 na diesel and just loves to be abused. Fuel consumption is so good I thought the fuel gauge was telling lies when I first had it... But I had been running a 3 litre petrol for the month before Gotta wait a good 15 secs on cold mornings for the preheating light to go out then it chugs into life with a big puff of smoke. The engine just feels indestructible, guess this is proven with those old Pug 205s etc with 250k miles! Nice to see how well a diesel can work with all the shite they stick in today.

 

I'd never ever choose a diesel over a petrol though - just making sure I don't end with a point in favour of the black pump. The noise of an old French petrol V6 humming on a cold morning is just priceless

[Lacquer Peel]

Get a series Land Rover. 62hp straight out of the box, and you KNOW you're driving a diesel.

Square port Talbot incarnation of the 1700 non turbo XUD and then you know you are driving a diesel....

43bHp

 

RLY? Where did 17BHP go?

[Tayne]

Get a series Land Rover. 62hp straight out of the box, and you KNOW you're driving a diesel.

 

I had a drive of a Slla naturally asthmatic doozil landy the other week and while it was slow,the pleasure of driving a 40+ yr old bus made the speed totally irrelevant.

 

I did manage to get it to 60mph at one point though

 

My one could do 63mph.

That was low gearing though, it could manage 63 uphill, 63 going over the top and 63 back down the other side.

Bigger tyres and overdrive could have meant more...

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

I've never owned a diesel, although that has been more of a coincidence than a conscious choice.

 

With the exception of company cars with their funny taxation rules, running a modern diesel is completely pointless. The fuel savings aren't that big- plenty of petrol cars return 40+mpg- and the turbos, DMFs and DPFs are just accidents waiting to happen. Veg oil makes much more sense, of course, but it would kill most modern cars.

 

Personally I'm a fan of LPG. On a per-mile basis it may not represent a massive saving, but it's a good thing that a smaller proportion of your money goes to the taxman (I saw a Polo parked outside some NHS management offices, the registration number was H8 LPG- I'd also hate it if the low tax was a threat to my salary), it's mega-clean (the oil's spotless right to the day when you change it), and dual-fuel is a good backup- if one of the systems is having a problem, you just switch to the other!

[skattrd]

Luxo, I can see your point, but there are acceptable diesels without DMF/DPF.

I deliberately chose my VW as it's one of the last before they went pd, so it runs on veg and always does over 55 to the gallon. If I drive carefully I can get over 60 to the gallon. Servicing is peanuts and parts are the same price as a petrol car, a replacement clutch cost me £55. No petrol motor, that I would be comfortable doing 1000 miles a week, in comes close. It's now covered 198k and I can't see me changing it for anything else. It's not an unpleasant drive, is quick enough and has a few mod cons, inc. aircon.

I've tried lpg, but running a diesel just makes more sense, as the engines are made to be used for high mileages.

[Lukas]

Modern diesel-engines are high-risk-engines when getting older! Very complex technical solutions make them a lot more prone to high repair-bills than n/a-petrol-engines. The high-pressure-pumps, injectors, commonrail-rails, turbos and many other things are too complex to be owned and driven by ordinary people who know nothing about high-performance engines and how to treat them well. Most people are like that though. And most modern diesel-engines are high-performance-enginesl, although this has nothing to do with the amount of bhp.

 

Sadly, many modern petrol-engines are turbo-engines as well and will get more and more complex so the advantage of used petrol-engines will be gone in a few years time I fear. Just look at VW for example. Most models are only available with TSI-engines (petrol, complex, prone to go bang) or TDI-engines (diesel, complex, prone to go bang). BMW does the same.

 

I have just bought a Volvo S80 with the 2.4 petrol-engine. It has 210.000km on the clock and runs like new, uses no oil. The dealer I bought it from said he qould not touch a D5 with this mileage. A friend of mine who is a mechanic said the same about modern diesels.

 

I have owned diesel-engines in the past, but only old ones without direct-injection, without high-pressure-pumps and such things.

 

running a diesel just makes more sense, as the engines are made to be used for high mileages

 

Older diesel-engines Yes, but I would not say that for modern diesels.

 

Lukas

[oman5]

Ditto what everyone said about modern diesels. brilliant when they are working but too much to go wrong when they are more than a couple of years old. also with the price difference between pez and derv I'm not sure that fuel savings are quite as much as people think, unless you have something that does 70 mpg.

Now old skool diesels- the ones where you KNOW you have a diesel engine- in my experience, (sierra 2.3d, merc 240d,volvo 740td, transit di,) are worth having. slow but there is so little power that they are really unstressed and run pretty much forever. I have plenty of love for the pre-hdi Pug dizzlers too.

My ideal car would be a volvo 240 with a perkins P6 or a gardner 4lw in it.

[Rocket88]

I just love the low / mid range grunt of diesels. Living over here [40 mph speed limit] is ideal territory for them.

[dollywobbler]

I just love the low / mid range grunt of diesels. Living over here [40 mph speed limit] is ideal territory for them.

 

And exactly the sort of place that will cause modern turbo diesels to kill themselves. I'm a big fan of torque. My Austin Westminster had bucket loads of the stuff. Maximum torque was produced at 2000rpm!

[skattrd]

To me there was a "sweet spot" with diesel engineering around the late 90's, before it went all common rail, high pressure, DPF etc.

The last of the non-pd 110bhp VAG motors fit this, and there is probably a PSA equivalent, but I'm unfamiliar with French dizzlers.

My VW is one of the last non-pd motors, it's "chipped" up to about 130bhp, so isn't particularly slow, runs veg and is cheap to maintain. ... Oh and it looks like shit, bellows clouds of black smoke and cost under £1k

I would recommend these to anyone looking for a high mileage daily.

[Rocket88]

I just love the low / mid range grunt of diesels. Living over here [40 mph speed limit] is ideal territory for them.

 

And exactly the sort of place that will cause modern turbo diesels to kill themselves. I'm a big fan of torque. My Austin Westminster had bucket loads of the stuff. Maximum torque was produced at 2000rpm!

 

Dealers are not allowed to sell stuff with DPFs in the Channel Islands.........and I'm singing the praises of the venerable VAG 1.9 TDI pre 2005, and how the hell do you get 40 mpg out of a Westie?

[Vin]

I first got a diesel car in 2002 due to the number of miles and the regular towing I was doing at the time.

 

In the 11 years since, with regular servicing and recommended belt changes, the only mechanical engine problems I ever had were new glow plugs and air flow meter were needed on the Brava. Everything else that went was associated with the car itself, radiators, clutches, brake pipes etc, so what you would expect really, no work was ever done on the engines.

 

I've had;

Fiat Tipo 1.9 TDSX (2002 to 2004 and 50k miles)

Fiat Brava 1.9JTD (2004 to 2013 and 230k miles)

Fiat Marea 2.4JTD (Current car and 2k miles)

 

I can't really say anything about the Marea as I've only had it three weeks, but I have done 2,000 miles in it already, and it makes me smile. It's the low down torq and power and when you put your foot down in fifth, it takes off. I love all that.

 

I'd never go back to petrol as a daily or workhorse.

[dollywobbler]

I didn't, but 20mpg was worth it once those twin SUs started shovelling the juice. I miss that car, if not its complete inability to corner.

[theorganist]

I've had two diesels:

 

1) 1985 Ford Orion DL which was slow with heavy steering but I loved the sound of the engine as it reminded me of the company Orion's father used to borrow from work ten years before. It still had the same smell inside!

 

2) 1990 Rover Maestro Clubman NA I thought the engine sounded very refined on this, compared to the Orion and had reasonable performance and it would sit at 70mph on the Motorway all day.

 

I enjoy the sound of the old diesel engines and would love another 80's Ford Diesel!

 

That Seat Arosa diesel I drove last weekend seemed perfectly acceptable too.