idiotboy Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Hi all Hope the brains on here can tell me what's happening here. I've just purchased a 1.4 CVT 1986 340DL on collection the idle was not great and I was reading though the guidance on here. I did the shake test on the air cleaner and wasn't sure so took it off and found a number of issues: Two of the carb feet nuts were almost completely wound off,The vac pipe from the base of the carb was loose.The vac pipe from the first T peice was split.The vac pipe to another T piece was loose. I've tightened the carb feet nuts, tightened the carb top screws (2 were loose), replaced the vac pipe to carb base with a piece of good fitting rubber fuel line, replaced the split pipe with some more fuel line and changed the loose rubber for a tighter fitting piece of fuel line from my tool box. Now on startup two things have happened. Firstly the hissing noise which used to be heard when the engine was running has gone. This must be a good thing? Could this lack of vacuum have caused the CVT system to not run at its best. The second thing is that the car now struggles to idle. In fact it seems to tickover waaaay too slow, so what should I do? Do I need to adjust the idle speed? If so where is it? Oddly the choke lever is now behaving oddly in that it seems to have become loose behind the dash so that pushing it in sees it go into the dash but the choke light stays on and it needs a couple of attempts to get it in. Can anyone advise how to access the dash end of the choke lever? I'm guessing it must be fixed somehow? Apart from that am I going to have issues with using fuel line for the vac hoses? I've got a long journey to do tomorrow so I hope I've not buggered the car up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuvvum Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 I don't know a lot about how Variomatic 340s are set up, so can't help you with that bit, but I can confirm that I've been using fuel line as wastegate actuator pipe on the Rovers of Doom for quite a while now with no ill effects, so would imagine that part should be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashmicro Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Sounds like it just need to be correctly adjusted, now that you seem to have sorted out the other issues. Try this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Bo11ox Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 If it was previously sucking in air under the (loose) carb, and you have now sealed that leak, that would be likely to knock the idle speed down. So just crank it back up again to a reasonable setting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idiotboy Posted November 2, 2012 Author Share Posted November 2, 2012 given it half a turn so lets see if that's better. Also found out why choke cable keeps vanishing into dash, the plastic nut that secures it has snapped in two bits. Why oh why do designers do things like this and use plastic where it has no right to be used? Going to try and find a metal replacement. Also another odd spot is that one of the choke butterfly flaps on this progressive webber 32 DIR is missing. Is that likely to be a problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idiotboy Posted November 2, 2012 Author Share Posted November 2, 2012 Well I've found the issue with the choke cable, the plastic nut that secures it has snapped in half which allows it to be pushed though the slot in the ignition switch housing. Does anyone on here know where I can get a spare nut? It looks to be M9 but is thin, bit of a sod really. If anyone is planning on going to a scrapper this weekend can you let me know? Also now that I figured out how to get the lower housing off under the instrument cluster, I noticed that the plastic bar that secures the bottom of the indicator switch has also snapped. Again if you are planning on attending a scrap yard and fancy rading a 340 or 360 let me know. I've adjusted the idle speed screw by half a turn so at least the idle speed will be a bit higher now that the engine isn't sucking in air all over the place. The test drive confirmed that the vacuum leak had an effect on the CVT as the car seems to change up better and the engine revs are much lower at light throttle. At idle Tickover revs seem to rise when the brake pedal is pushed when in N. Is that normal? Or should I lower the idle speed a little? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollywobbler Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Don't press the brake pedal when in N! Problem solved. I can't see why you'd want to do that anyway or does it do it when switching from D to R? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scaryoldcortina Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 idle revs rising when brake pressed is often a servo fault... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idiotboy Posted November 2, 2012 Author Share Posted November 2, 2012 Don't press the brake pedal when in N! Problem solved. I can't see why you'd want to do that anyway or does it do it when switching from D to R? You have to start the car in N and then hold the car on the brake to move to D, if the revs climb too high this engages the clutch and you can't get it into D. Methinks I'll be out at dawns crack getting the car warmed up and then playing with the idle speed, before driving to the south coast. Still at least the car will change up to a higher gear so I'll use much less fuel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollywobbler Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Ah, I see. As SOC says, might be a servo fault. IIRC, fluid can leak into the inlet, which raises the revs and may cause white exhaust smoke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan84 Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Pumping the brake pedal at idle will slightly raise rpm. Having air leaks would have also meant te car was running lean so you might find now its maybe gone a bit on the rich side;if you have a good relationship with your local garage,maybe ask them to do a quick CO check to see how she's running.What you have done with the hose replacements sounds ok to me as they were on the carburettor;not as if you were changing the brake servo hose which is a reinforced hose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scaryoldcortina Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Actually, I meant that a faulty servo can leak air when operated, equating to an air leak and higher revs/weakened mixture. Rule it out by clamping the pipe from the manifold to the servo. Just priming an empty servo (as per MoT test) shouldn't raise the revs, neither should using the brake with the engine running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan84 Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Rapid pumping of the pedal with the engine running can slightly raise idle speed,but under normal conditions no;providing the pedal is firm,and the car has correct servo action and there is no fluid loss or obvious air leaks,It sounds like it was just the carb area which was the source of the problem.Hope it all settles in well and gives safe reliable motoring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idiotboy Posted November 5, 2012 Author Share Posted November 5, 2012 Howdy folks Enjoyed a pleasant weekend with Lulu the volvo with its first long trip with a 3 stop Sussex round robin to collect parts for the 2CV resto. I have no idea how far the journey was as I've got to fix that speedo issue, but it was about 3/4 of a 45litre tank. On the plus side the broken choke cable was fixed with a new metal nut and the broken bracket holding the indicator switch repaired with a proper metal bracket, so now the dash is back together again. Yesterday I managed to replace the fan belt after 2 attempts to get the correct belt as two sizes were listed and the wrong one was purchased initially. With the belts off I could check the alternator and water pump bearings and both run smoothly with no grumbling. The old belt was totally knackered and responsible for the squeal on startup. Clean tronic on all likely electrical contacts has restored the fan which now cuts in and out at the correct temps. Being keen I've also looked for other things to do and along with replacing the servo hose, I'm hoping to continue to replace any other knackered rubber hoses including CVT vac items, adjust tappets, fit new HT leads, fix the speedo and also fix the heater distribution control which is perma set to demist, which is useful but can lead to cold feet. If anyone has any hints or tips on the heater control please let me know. I'm expecting its a broken piece of plastc somewhere that's caused the issue. Thats the problem with 1980's cars, they are well and truely in the "plastic generation". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idiotboy Posted November 11, 2012 Author Share Posted November 11, 2012 Hello Well I've had another interesting afternoon working on the Volvo whilst nursing a hangover. All the knackered engine bay vac and breather pipes have now been replaced with new Silicon pipes. The broken plastic T piece has been replaced and whilst I was at it I've fitted a new air filter. The car now struggles to Idle and the engine is really lumpy and shaking about. I can't raise the idle speed because this causes the clutch to engage and means that you can't select drive on the shift lever. The impression is that the car is not running on all cylinders, when idling. My next approach is to fit new spark plugs, HT leads, dizzy cap and rotor arm. The HT leads are rather inflexible so I'm hoping its just knackered leads at this point. If its not the ignition side of things could it be a blocked jet somewhere? I also took the opportunity to replace the rather ancient looking servo pipe and just as well that I did. As I touched it it snapped in half to reveal that the internal bore had collapsed completely and was blocking the pipe. I've fitted some proper spec servo pipe which is a good snug fit. If the servo pipe was blocked what effect would this have on the running of the car and operation of the brakes? Any advice gladly received. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Ross Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 Is the exhaust black smoking at idle? If so, the mixture is too rich, and needs leaning off. This will be because the whole carb has been fiddled with, without attending to the air leaks. Find the mixture screw, and turn it either way, it will either stall or start to sound a lot smoother. My method of doing it is this. Locate screw, define lean/rich direction. Lean off until it's smooth, and then turn back till it just starts to "stumble", and then lean off the crew two full turns. This sets it to a usable/drivable setting, and you can then fine tune it at a garage. The idle speed will be easier to set when this is set correctly. Always do mixture then idle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idiotboy Posted November 11, 2012 Author Share Posted November 11, 2012 Thanks I'll try the mixture setting and see if it makes any difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idiotboy Posted November 12, 2012 Author Share Posted November 12, 2012 Hi Chaps Well adjusting the mixture, replacing the HT leads, dizzy cap and rotor arm made no difference. The engine is still shaking and running like crap at idle. Its also feels like its hunting at light throttle. I'm guessing that it must be too lean somehow so suspecting there must be a massive air leak somewhere, but if anyone has any ideas please let me know. Cheers Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M'coli Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Try blocking the pipe to the brake servo, to see if that's leaking at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod/b Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Given what you said in your first post about the carb fittings being loose i reckon someone could have had the carb off before you. Have you checked the gasket isn 't knackered / missing? Also have you checked that the inlet manifold itself is correctly fitted? Have you given the carb > manifold and manifold > head joins a squirt of WD40 with the engine on to see if it gets sucked in? Otherwise if the carb has been off is there any sign that someones attempted / abandoned a rebuild? Any vacuum hoses coming off the inlet manifold that are loose / missing / split? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollywobbler Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Is it just playing up sans choke or even when running with a load of it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idiotboy Posted November 13, 2012 Author Share Posted November 13, 2012 From what I've been reading on Volvo forums, the carbs on the b14 engine are prone to shaking themselves to bits, due in part to Volvo's stupid idea of fitting a massive air cleaner to the top of it. That acts as a pendulum and makes things worse. The only things I've changed have been noticably broken i.e. split vac hoses, brittle HT leads, worn out Dizzy cap/rotor arm, air filter, fraying fan belt, and the servo hose which had collapsed in on itself. It must be the mother of all air leaks somewhere, so my next port of call is to try eliminiating vacuum outlets from the carb/inlet manifold, by disconnecting them and blocking the outlets to see if any improvement is seen. I've also ordered up a service kit for the carb as its sods law if I take the carb off to clean it, there'll be a knackered gasket or diaphram somewhere. I did try adjusting the mixture and the screw took 6 and a half turns to wind it in. The thing is I've had to wind it back out to that setting just to get it to idle at all, its obviously been suffering from some issue for a while, and probably the reason why the previous owner decided to sell it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idiotboy Posted November 13, 2012 Author Share Posted November 13, 2012 Had another 30 minute look see at the car. OK with the choke out runs lovely but there is an auto choke shut off and as soon as that cuts in its all over the place. The Mixture screw is almost right out of the carb and I've checked all hoses for leaks and they seem fine. I sprayed carb cleaner around the base of the carb and all of a sudden the revs rise. So my thinking is that the base of the carb is warped or not sealing. My replacing of the Servo pipe has somehow made the car suck in more air which is making it run too lean even with the mixture screw all the way out. I've checked all the vacuum hoses for leaks and they all seem tight and good and the only time I noticed any difference was when I sprayed Carb cleaner at the carb base. I'm hoping someone on here can tell me the conclusions I'm coming to sound about right, but either way it seems that the carb has to come off for a check. As if that wasn't enough I've also got to get the Allegro booked in for a pump up. Should I go for a complete drain down and vacuum out and refill with new fluid or just a pump up? cheers Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollywobbler Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Are you sure the mixture screw is meant to come out? I only ask because some cars defy logic and have you screw IN to richen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idiotboy Posted November 13, 2012 Author Share Posted November 13, 2012 Are you sure the mixture screw is meant to come out? I only ask because some cars defy logic and have you screw IN to richen. Yes pretty sure. You wind it in and it stops running, you wind it out and the revs rise so, I'm fairly certain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew353w Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 As this car is really a grown-up Daf, it would be worth having a look at the pipes that carry vacuum to the transmission. As you accelerate the micro-switches allow vacuum to flow to the transmission to assist the car to change up. If the pipes are off/damaged/loose at the rear of the car all sorts of problems can occur. Similarly when the footbrake is applied the vacuum is passed to the other part of the transmission, to assist the car in changing DOWN, so pipe problems at the transmission end would again cause rough running. Apologies if you've already thought of this.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idiotboy Posted November 13, 2012 Author Share Posted November 13, 2012 As this car is really a grown-up Daf, it would be worth having a look at the pipes that carry vacuum to the transmission. As you accelerate the micro-switches allow vacuum to flow to the transmission to assist the car to change up. If the pipes are off/damaged/loose at the rear of the car all sorts of problems can occur. Similarly when the footbrake is applied the vacuum is passed to the other part of the transmission, to assist the car in changing DOWN, so pipe problems at the transmission end would again cause rough running. Apologies if you've already thought of this.... HiWell, things seem to be ok on the open road vario works ok, I think (not having anything to compare against) it just goes a bit wrong at Idle. Let me try taking off the carb give it a clean out, check its base for warpage (replace any gaskets and O rings that need doing) and if its still a bag of crap afterwards then I can rule that out an induction air leak. If there are any Volvo 340 Vario or Daf bods on here can they look at this diagram which is a map of the engine vacuum hoses and confirm that its connected up OK. I'm pretty sure it is but lets rule out anything stoopid up front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M'coli Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 ...the only time I noticed any difference was when I sprayed Carb cleaner at the carb base.What did it do when you tried this? Smoother, faster, slower or rougher? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 When I had idling problems on my Renault 9, which I think had much the same engine, it turned out that all the nuts holding the inlet manifold on had worked loose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idiotboy Posted November 13, 2012 Author Share Posted November 13, 2012 ...the only time I noticed any difference was when I sprayed Carb cleaner at the carb base.What did it do when you tried this? Smoother, faster, slower or rougher? Smoother and slightly faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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