55bloke Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Those of you who've been on here for a while will recognise this car. It's my beloved '91 R25 TXE auto, which has given me well over 7 years virtually trouble-free motoring. Now however, sadly, it's suffered the dreaded gear box failure. It's lost reverse, due to a collapsed bearing I'm told. It drives forward ok, but I'm told doing so risks getting metal fragments in the valve body. It's beyond my means to fix it, so is probably headed for the scrappy. Unless someone on here feels like a challenge!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSdriver Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 It would be a shame to scrap it, how much is it to rebuild/buy recon box? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55bloke Posted October 20, 2012 Author Share Posted October 20, 2012 I've been quoted 7 to 8 hundred to rebuild the box, and that's if I remove it and refit it myself (which I don't have the skill or equipment to do) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkman Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 But, but, but, Lucas can fix it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55bloke Posted October 20, 2012 Author Share Posted October 20, 2012 Hmmm... not seen that before. Wonder if it actually works? However, I'm assured that the problem is a collapsed bearing. The forward gears are not slipping, only reverse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willswitchengage Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 J673 UOC 1992 Renault 25 by willswitchengage, on Flickr One of the few cars that looked better post-facelift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulgalour Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Scrapping that would be like killing your gran because she broke her hip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55bloke Posted October 20, 2012 Author Share Posted October 20, 2012 J673 UOC 1992 Renault 25 by willswitchengage, on Flickr One of the few cars that looked better post-facelift. I absolutely agree! Much prefer the phase 2 to the phase 1. That was taken in a restaurant car park Harrogate, right? We were inside the restaurant, having dinner with my folks. We could see the car from where we were sat, and I never noticed you take the photo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55bloke Posted October 20, 2012 Author Share Posted October 20, 2012 Scrapping that would be like killing your gran because she broke her hip. Again, I totally agree. I've had it longer than my 1st marriage lasted, and I love it to bits. Scrapping it would break my heart, but I simply don't have the skill or the funds to save it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulgalour Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Hmm... you're only in Sheffield. What's involved with dropping a gearbox? If I can, I'll help, though my skills and toolbox are quite limited I'm always willing to do my research and get stuck into a job. I can't bear the thought of you scrapping this for want of a bit of skill and a small wedge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55bloke Posted October 20, 2012 Author Share Posted October 20, 2012 Hmm... you're only in Sheffield. What's involved with dropping a gearbox? If I can, I'll help, though my skills and toolbox are quite limited I'm always willing to do my research and get stuck into a job. I can't bear the thought of you scrapping this for want of a bit of skill and a small wedge. That's beyond generous, and very much appreciated!! Honestly, I'm not absolutely sure, except that the box is very heavy, and I have nothing that will lift the car high enough to get it out!! The Haynes manual just says "Consult your Renault dealer"! Don't even know if you have to take the front struts out to remove the drive shafts - if you do, a special spring compressor is needed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulgalour Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 I've got a pair of spring compressors that I used to do the Polo suspension, they should be okay for the job. The only thing I could provide for getting the car high in the air would be axle stands and a trolley jack, but that might not be enough. If you have something that a trolley jack could stand on safely, you can get a car quite high with a combination of axle stands and blocks for the jack to stand on, it takes a while but it's doable. I've got a trolley that *should* be able to support the weight of the 'box, though it's not really designed with that in mind. I'm under no illusion that it'll be anything other than a bastard of a job, but if it gets you a step closer to keeping an old friend then I'll help in any way I can. I do come with the warning label of being a learner rather than a teacher when it comes to mechanical stuff, I find most things are just a case of approaching them methodically and taking your time and plenty of notes/pictures for where things go back just in case you need to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stixy Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 But, but, but, Lucas can fix it. I used this in a Mondeo auto that had a very mild flare between 1st & 2nd within an hour of adding it had lost drive completly The trouble with autoboxes is nobody wants to repair them just recon them on account of them being liable if the box completly fails afterwards a collapsed bearing sounds unlikely as autos generaly use epicyclic gear trains and reverse is obtained by holding one of conponents still while the others rotate round it so if it was a bearing its unlikly to go forward either . Whats the ATF like ? is the box making strange noises ? did it go while actualy reverseing ? before droping the box carefully check all wiring leading to and from it as it could be an electrical fault Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angrydicky Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Can you not get it high enough by driving onto a pair of ramps? I've changed gearboxes this way before, admittedly not on a 25 though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulgalour Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 I can also obtain a pair of old fashioned driveway ramps, but I hate driving onto them. I'd assumed the other checks had already been done, this is a sensible thing to do first as sometimes it's the little things that are the fault, not the big things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AeroNautiCal Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 You've probably done this, but I'd check on every European Renault and gearbox related forum to see if the issue is known and has a (non box out) remedy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panhard65 Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 It's a Renault auto so will need a box at least and is it just me but I really don't like the phase 2 R25 same with the 9 and 11 the facelift done them no favours. What ever you do don't try messing with the front suspension without the proper tool (not normal spring compressors) cos someone will get hurt trust me on that. Best just send it over the bridge save all the grief of being messed around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wackywacerwill Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 With the car supported on axle stands allowing the front suspension to be on full drop I've found on all the cars I've tried it on that by removing the wheels then undoing the shock to swivel hub bolts the drive shafts can then be tugged out with out messing with spring compressors. Obviously you won't be able to do the same on ramps as the front sus would be under load. It's always is a tough call when something like this happens with a car you've owned for a long time and have grown attached to. Fix and keep or move on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55bloke Posted October 20, 2012 Author Share Posted October 20, 2012 I'm genuinely surprised by the amount of comment this post has produced, and touched by the offers of help. Having owned 25s since 1991, I'm fully aware of the spring compressor thing. In typical Renault style, no ordinary compressor will do, it has to be the special Renault tool - which can be hired from the Renault owner's club. My mechanical knowledge of autoboxes is "limited," so I have to listen to the words of those who know. Having spoken to a couple of guys who've rebuilt dozens of the A4 boxes, I'm assured that the problem IS a collapsed bearing. I have nurtured the box as it's a notorious weakness, with a life expectancy of about 60k. I have changed the ATF twice, and also the paper filter, and driven it gently. The fluid is still clear, and the forward gears shift perfectly. But, it has about 70k on it, and despite the care, it's succumbed. My heart is telling me to fix it, but my head is saying no. Not fully decided yet, but I suspect it's terminal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxobarges_Are_Us Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 I'm in Sheffield and I've got ramps, too, although skills-wise I am completely fucking clueless. Having said that, I'd be up for meeting up with you two and seeing whether there is anything we could do to save that beast. Maybe worth PMing Albert to see if he can come and help in exchange for a few beers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worldofceri Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 ...the forward gears shift perfectly. Just see it as a challenge to see how long you can cope without reverse gear. Always park facing uphill; Simples. ...drives forward ok, but I'm told doing so risks getting metal fragments in the valve body... Oh, hang on, mebee not. Seriously, I'm well familiar with the want-to-fix-much-loved-car-but-don't-have-the-funds scenario. Hope you can get it sorted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan84 Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Do you have a auto transmission specialist near to you ? If so,why not drop in,and ask how much a box recon/repair would cost,and what sort of labour costs to remove install would be involved - you might be able to get some information as to just what is involved in doing the job,which will help work out how to tackle it youself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxobarges_Are_Us Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 These people seem to get decent reviews on the Sheffield Forum (whose members have a reputation for being whining sods).http://www.mistergearbox.co.uk/index-1.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55bloke Posted October 21, 2012 Author Share Posted October 21, 2012 These people seem to get decent reviews on the Sheffield Forum (whose members have a reputation for being whining sods).http://www.mistergearbox.co.uk/index-1.html Yep, I've used them before, they are excellent. And, as I said earlier, it's about £700 to £800 for a rebuild, plus another couple of hundred to remove and refit. On a car worth about £500 or £600 at best, it's madness, even if I had it, which I don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Split_Pin Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Had a similar scenario last month with being attached to a car that needs a major repair. Do you have anywhere that you can store it? That's what I did until I can afford to fix it as it was a waste to scrap it being in such good condition otherwise. Don't listen to other people who say its old and broken and therefore to be thrown away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardMoss Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Spend the money on fixing a car you know and love or spend it on a replacement car about which you know sod-all? I know which way I'd (probably) go and it's not replacement! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CreepingJesus Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 R25 has a longitudinal engine + box iirc; so it should come 'out the top' fairly easily, with the help of an engine crane. Lash the engine to a pallet, and split the box off from there. May be academic, but it would save a lot of faffing about under the car.Anything needing doing to the engine while the box is away, would be easy too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlo Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Have read this thread with interest having been in a similar position a few years ago. Your comment which really took my eye was "has given me 7 years trouble free motoring", also the fact you obviously have a lot of feeling for the car. My favourite ever 405 failed its MOT on emissions plus a few other bits, and many's the day I regret not spending the £600 or so it needed; I seriously loved that car. In my favour was the fact there were still a few 405 automatics around (I had another one anyway). Key to your decision must be how often you'd use the thing; if it's only a few weeks of the year maybe no, if it's your daily driver I'd think seriously about doing the work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55bloke Posted October 21, 2012 Author Share Posted October 21, 2012 Yep, this has been my daily driver for the last 7 years. I currently have no where to store it - it was on a neighbour's drive, but have been asked to move it, so it's now on our drive, which means both our other two cars are on the street! Realistically, if it were "stored," it would simply deteriorate to the pont where it would need a lot more doing to get it back on the road. I think I'm just delaying the inevitable for sentimental reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan84 Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 The question to ask yourself might be " Is the rest of the car good,and sound,and what sort of replacement will I get for the amount of money needed to sort this one out " Sometimes it's better the devil you know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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