Thoughts on fuel prices

[willswitchengage]

If the govt is serious about moving from a banker/service economy to a balanced one

 

Let's not kid ourselves, it's cheap rhetoric.

 

Also something to bear in mind - weirdly high tax Britain (and Scandinavia) is best positioned to absorb oil price shocks. This 10p increase we've had in 2012 is what 7ish% increase on the price of fuel? In cheap fuel countries like France then that's a 10% increase, and in the ever ridiculous USA that could be a 20% increase. Our inflation will be lower, and the change, although still significant, is more easily absorbed. Plus, since we're such a small country these increased transport costs are far less significant than in say France and the States where travelling distances are double what we have. Swings and roundabouts really, others have it far worse off.

[Spiny Norman]

They commented on rising prices encouraging manufacturers to develop more efficient engines etc, but the irony of this is that it is highly reductive.

 

 

I sometimes wonder if the UK motorist wants better mpg or if he just likes moaning about how much teh gubmint is pissing on his bonfire.

 

If we had the intelligence to demand from the auto makers small, modern and above all lightweight cars, the 100mpg supermini would be the norm.

Why the hell does a fecking Corsa (seats 4 smallish people plus a few bags) have to weigh in at twice what a late 80s Citroen AX (also seats 4 + bags) or even a Polo did? Imagine a modern version of a light 4 seater hatch like the AX with the GM/Fiat 1.3 CDTi Diseasel lump or something similar in it?

[oman5]

They commented on rising prices encouraging manufacturers to develop more efficient engines etc, but the irony of this is that it is highly reductive.

 

 

I sometimes wonder if the UK motorist wants better mpg or if he just likes moaning about how much teh gubmint is pissing on his bonfire.

 

If we had the intelligence to demand from the auto makers small, modern and above all lightweight cars, the 100mpg supermini would be the norm.

Why the hell does a fecking Corsa (seats 4 smallish people plus a few bags) have to weigh in at twice what a late 80s Citroen AX (also seats 4 + bags) or even a Polo did? Imagine a modern version of a light 4 seater hatch like the AX with the GM/Fiat 1.3 CDTi Diseasel lump or something similar in it?

 

 

 

That's a particular bugbear of mine. cars have definitely got lardier, I park my Volvo 740 in work- its a big car, yes? but its dwarfed by Mondeos and Insignias. Its mostly to do with crash worthiness standards getting a lot stricter. The aforementioned Citroen AX by comparison to a modern car was made of tinfoil and would fold up like cardboard in a crash. modern stuff has to be a lot more rigid, with side impact bars, airbags, etc etc so better engine technology is cancelled out by extra weight.

It absolutely sucks that a late '80s/early 90's car like an AX or Pug 106 was getting 75-80 mpg and only a select few modern cars achieve this and usually they are a lot more expensive than normal variants. (VW Bluemotion, for example)

[Cavcraft]

Yeah, defo because of safety laws etc. To be honest, as much as we complain, for those of us with kids it's not actually such a bad thing that cars are safer these days. I'm currently working out figures for my lad's Corsa and to be honest it's looking like it's cheaper to run than the old Audi diesel I have. The Audi will probably win in costs but purely because it runs on veg oil, in 'actual' mpg figures and factoring in cost of diesel versus petrol it's coming off worse.

Obv. it's about eleven million times more interesting to drive than the Corsa but money is money.

[gtd2000]

news this morning - the twats now want to 'go after the tax dodging contract and temporary worker.

 

errrmm... successive governments have created an work economy where corporates can hire people on such a contract rather than employ somone properly - they have to realise that they cannot have their cake and eat it - if you are going to treat people cynically then do not be surprised if they turn round and do the same to the system.

 

as it happens, as a 'so called high earning contractor myself' I was paid less than my colleagues on permanent contracts because although my 'day rate' looked high, by the time you had taken off corporation tax, personal tax, sick pay, holiday pay and NI I took home less than my colleagues and had less rights. By giving PAYE temps the same employment rights as permanent staff all that hashappenedis the threshold for hiringaday rate ltd company contractor has dropped.

 

With the new fuel costs there is no way I could have done my old job, I would have been shelling out 200 quid a week on fuel which I would havebeen unable to claim

 

I'm in the same boat as yourself then with regards to being a "contractor".

 

For me, the corporate tax rates made it worth my while actually working in the UK (for the first time in 15 years) back in 2010.

 

The way I see it, is that I can earn a good rate overseas and pay next to no tax in many cases and nothing at all to the IR here.

 

By giving a lower rate of tax at approx 21%, they are getting a generally good cut of money from me that they would otherwise not collect.

 

I'll be working overseas again soon (hopefully) and fall back into a much lower foreign tax deduction anyway.

 

One of my Austrian colleagues told me the story of a German footballer that relocated to Austria for the tax benefits - he was earning millions and the Germans were taking about 50% (so the story goes). He spoke with the Austrians who offered him a 15% rate or suchlike and moved - that's good business sense!

 

From my own perspective I don't have a problem being taxed if there are benefits - over here it just seems to be the case the Govt throws it away faster than they bring it in.

[barefoot]

Probably slightly off topic, but I've just been out & treated myself to 40.86 litres of unleaded,

for each of these litres I paid the Princely sum of £1.419

So 40.86 X 1.419 = £57.98034

Do you know, they had the temerity to charge me £57.99

 

If I'm paying a penny over the odds every time I fill up, that will be a fair few shillings by the end of the year

Do you think I should query it & ask for it to be refunded to my card?

 

Oh & they had sold out of Diesel !

[Cavcraft]

You can 'officially' complain about it, I'll try and find the link later. That's the reason I always try and pay by cash as too many pumps creep over by a penny when you've stopped using them and although it's not much why should we give the bleeders any more of our money?

[Negative Creep]

Probably slightly off topic, but I've just been out & treated myself to 40.86 litres of unleaded,

for each of these litres I paid the Princely sum of £1.419

So 40.86 X 1.419 = £57.98034

Do you know, they had the temerity to charge me £57.99

 

If I'm paying a penny over the odds every time I fill up, that will be a fair few shillings by the end of the year

Do you think I should query it & ask for it to be refunded to my card?

 

Oh & they had sold out of Diesel !

 

 

Are you sure it wasn't just the price of petrol increasing during the time it took you to walk to the counter?

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

The car is not a god given right to own for everyone but as per usual its the less affluent that will feel the pinch before the top earners.

 

I hate to be the one to point this out, but that's true of everything. If you're a top earner, it's easier to buy stuff because you have more money than people who aren't top earners. It's why people work hard to become top earners.

 

The problem is that indirect taxation means that the 'working poor' pay a very high % of their earnings on taxes. Somebody living on their own in a flat/small house has to pay £800 on council tax and probably another £170 or so for a TV licence. Then it's another £220 on road tax, £1000 on fuel duty and VAT, followed by a good £300 on VAT for basic household goods and VAT-rated foods (such as orange juice). You're talking £2.5k, and that's before any spending on non-essentials and durable goods.

 

If that person works at a call-centre or in a run-of the mill admin job, they get £14k gross a year, of which they see £11,882. Out of which they have to pay the £2.5k on indirect taxes, leaving them with £9,382, which means they pay 33% of their income to the taxman (incl. NI).

 

Now suppose they've been promoted to team leader and got a salary increase to £17,5k. Their net income is £14,262, out of which they have to give the taxman £2.5k in indirect taxation, leaving them with £11,762, which means they now only pay 30% of their income on taxes, i.e. their tax rate is now 10% lower as a result of their income going up!

 

I'm all for incentivising people to work and enjoy the fruits of their labour, but this is not the right way to go about achieving that noble aim!

[Cavcraft]

The car is not a god given right to own for everyone but as per usual its the less affluent that will feel the pinch before the top earners.

 

I hate to be the one to point this out, but that's true of everything. If you're a top earner, it's easier to buy stuff because you have more money than people who aren't top earners. It's why people work hard to become top earners.

 

The problem is that indirect taxation means that the 'working poor' pay a very high % of their earnings on taxes. Somebody living on their own in a flat/small house has to pay £800 on council tax and probably another £170 or so for a TV licence. Then it's another £220 on road tax, £1000 on fuel duty and VAT, followed by a good £300 on VAT for basic household goods and VAT-rated foods (such as orange juice). You're talking £2.5k, and that's before any spending on non-essentials and durable goods.

 

If that person works at a call-centre or in a run-of the mill admin job, they get £14k gross a year, of which they see £11,882. Out of which they have to pay the £2.5k on indirect taxes, leaving them with £9,382, which means they pay 33% of their income to the taxman (incl. NI).

 

Now suppose they've been promoted to team leader and got a salary increase to £17,5k. Their net income is £14,262, out of which they have to give the taxman £2.5k in indirect taxation, leaving them with £11,762, which means they now only pay 30% of their income on taxes, i.e. their tax rate is now 10% lower as a result of their income going up!

 

I'm all for incentivising people to work and enjoy the fruits of their labour, but this is not the right way to go about achieving that noble aim!

 

Ooh, this'll be fun. I'll go and get the pop corn before Jim Davidson sees your message.

[RobT]

After a week abroad I came back on Sunday to see the price of petrol up by 4p/litre around here, I had to laugh at the absurdity of it.

[Pete-M]

Just been to put some fuel in. Drove straight to the pump and put enough in to last me til the weekend.

 

82.9/litre. Robbing bastards. I'll go to the ASDA next time, it's a credit card only station and 70.9/litre.

 

My own fault, the ASDA is a couple of miles out of my way. The station I went to is the local one to me, where they think that because there's a fucking SUBWAY° in the store it's fine to charge 10p/litre over the odds on bloody everything. Even the milk.

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

Is it still only 70.9? Cheapest LPG here is 75p now. Need to plan refuelling around trips to the LPG depot in rural Chesterfield.

[Cavcraft]

The only place round here with no queues whatsoever is near Helsby. Bog standard pez was £1.45 per litre when I went past earlier, which probably explains the emptiness of the forecourt.

[Polystratus]

The only place round here with no queues whatsoever is near Helsby. Bog standard pez was £1.45 per litre when I went past earlier, which probably explains the emptiness of the forecourt.

 

The Total station I passed today they have hiked both petrol and diesel to £1.47, forecourt wasn't empty though..

[Craig the Princess]

The only place round here with no queues whatsoever is near Helsby. Bog standard pez was £1.45 per litre when I went past earlier, which probably explains the emptiness of the forecourt.

 

146.9 at our village garage. Also no OMG FOOL KAOZ CUES! That said they only change prices following a delivery and it's been at that level for two weeks. The Esso on the way to work has no unleaded (still priced at 1.399 - I found this out when I had no fuel in the Metro - Supreme at 1.459 FTW!) and the cheeky gits at Shell have put prices up twice now £1.429.

[messerschmitt owner]

I bought 12 litres of cooking oil today for the XM - 99p a litre and no queues in the 99p shop!

[oman5]

well one thing with the high fuel prices, its actually got to the point where unused veg oil is now cheaper than diesel again. (not by much, from asda it works out at about 1.33 a litre, plus 10% discount for me) but handy to know if you have an old diesel snotter.

[Tayne]

Tesco, 10 litres for 12 quid.

[messerschmitt owner]

Tesco, 10 litres for 12 quid.

pound shop is £2.12 cheaper than the profiteers at tesco

[eddyramrod]

While we're talking about the fuel situation, I'll tell you this story from 2000....

 

Mrs R had her 1.3 Proton; I had a 1.3 Lada Riva. I also had a 7 litre 1979 Cadillac. Well on the Saturday we used the Cadillac for my sister-in-law's wedding (as you do) and on the Sunday, got up at stupid o'clock to take them to the airport, in the Cadillac. I had the radio on but wasn't paying much attention. After picking them up I stopped at my local BP for a fillup, and the car wouldn't re-start. Well I got them a cab, went home, cannibalised a wire off my retired Volvo and brought the car back. I didn't use it fo the next week as it was only a temporary fix and I didn't trust it, so I was going to work in my Lada. Following weekend, the strike has hit hard and we can't get petrol. BP is limiting customers to a tenner a go, and has queues an hour long or more. One afternoon I went round on my bike to see where Mrs had got to, as she should have been home from work; there she was in the queue, a long way from the forecourt. So I went to McDonalds and we sat in the Proton eating our tea, knowing we were parked for a while. Sunday I got stuck into the Cadillac and fixed the wire properly.

 

So for the rest of the strike, while everyone including us was gasping for juice for their 1.3s... I was commuting in my two-ton V8! Got some funny looks, I can tell you. But ok, where possible I walked or used my bike. I was sensible about it, only took a car out if I had to. And I didn't have to fill the Cadillac again until it was all over.

[Lacquer Peel]

Tesco, 10 litres for 12 quid.

pound shop is £2.12 cheaper than the profiteers at tesco

 

It's 10 litres for £11 if you buy KTC soya oil, the £12 stuff is sunflower oil. It's a lot cheaper from food wholesalers.

[Cavcraft]

/\

 

£20 for twenty litres from a local Asian food suppliers.

[Craig the Princess]

While we're talking about the fuel situation, I'll tell you this story from 2000....

 

Mrs R had her 1.3 Proton; I had a 1.3 Lada Riva. I also had a 7 litre 1979 Cadillac. Well on the Saturday we used the Cadillac for my sister-in-law's wedding (as you do) and on the Sunday, got up at stupid o'clock to take them to the airport, in the Cadillac. I had the radio on but wasn't paying much attention. After picking them up I stopped at my local BP for a fillup, and the car wouldn't re-start. Well I got them a cab, went home, cannibalised a wire off my retired Volvo and brought the car back. I didn't use it fo the next week as it was only a temporary fix and I didn't trust it, so I was going to work in my Lada. Following weekend, the strike has hit hard and we can't get petrol. BP is limiting customers to a tenner a go, and has queues an hour long or more. One afternoon I went round on my bike to see where Mrs had got to, as she should have been home from work; there she was in the queue, a long way from the forecourt. So I went to McDonalds and we sat in the Proton eating our tea, knowing we were parked for a while. Sunday I got stuck into the Cadillac and fixed the wire properly.

 

So for the rest of the strike, while everyone including us was gasping for juice for their 1.3s... I was commuting in my two-ton V8! Got some funny looks, I can tell you. But ok, where possible I walked or used my bike. I was sensible about it, only took a car out if I had to. And I didn't have to fill the Cadillac again until it was all over.

 

Now that is style

 

Back in 2000 wasn't the price of scrap rock-bottom? So much so you had to pay people to take your car away. Because I can remember a quite battered Mk2 Fiesta being for sale for £50 and the only comments on the advert were

 

For Sale

Includes Half-Tank of fuel

£50

[Cavcraft]

Congratulations to the local knobheads who seem to have run the Shell garage out of fuel.

[willswitchengage]

I enjoy how petrol sales went up by something like 200% but diesel only 100%, clearly commercial vehicle drivers who, er, actually need their vehicles for work are more reluctant to get involved with the monging around of the typically useless private car owner.

 

300TD win

 

Cheerio! by 300td.org, on Flickr

[skattrd]

I was feeling left out with the panic buying so went to Tesco last night .... 2x 5l sunflower oil for a tenner, offer should be nationwide and running until 24/4 tesco link

[cms206]

My thoughts on fuel prices are summed up by the fact I'm selling everything I own and buying Pete's Senator.

 

YOHO - you're only here once...

[chaseracer]

It's worth noting that there was no 'strike' in 2000 - the refineries were blockaded by farmers and haulage operators, whose actions were supported by the Conservatives...