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1980 Austin Princess


vulgalour

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  • 2 weeks later...

Right then, the Daily Driver Challenge got derailed somewhat by a BX but that doesn't mean I haven't used the Princess at all.  I'll be collating the info and experiences from the experiment today and will have a write up on that a bit later.  For now, it's alternator time.  Shiter Danthecapriman very kindly sent me his old Capri alternator to use on the Princess.  We were unsure as to whether or not it was correctly handed but knew it was otherwise a suitable swap.  Worst case, we could always use the good bits from one to fix the bad bits on the other.  This was going to be a little How To on doing the repair, my camera had other ideas unfortunately, so you'll have to use your imagination a little bit.

With both alternators on the desk we could see one was left handed, and one was right handed.  This is to do with where the pivot bolt and adjuster bolt holes are on the casing, they're otherwise identical.  Fortunately, if you unscrew the bolts holding the casing together you can dismantle the whole distributor and swap the casings over.  You also have to desolder three wires that connect the regulator to the commutator ring.  The intention was to use all of the internals from the Capri alternator and just the outer casings from the Princess alternator, this changed when we inspected the various components and ended up Frankensteining one alternator out of the two to make the best of the components available.

This is the Princess alternator internals, and you can see at the front the three wires with white-with-green-dots wire that are soldered to the regulator.  On the Princess alternator, most of the componenents were in reasonable condition, but it was the regulator that was shot.  We cleaned up the commutator surfaces, checked the bearings, and decided against splitting the commutator ring from the casing since it was in better shape than the one in the Capri alternator.  The bearings in the Capri alternator weren't quite as good either, though that's not too surprising since the Princess alternator dates from about 2011, where the Capri one is from the mid-80s, so had a fair few more hours clocked on it.

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The Capri regulator design was slightly different.  It was the same where it mattered, it was just the quality of parts of soldering, etc. was better overall and the regulator on the Capri didn't have a condenser added on, presumably because there was no need for it as there was on the newer Princess one.  To make things extra confusing I've made sure that this part is photographed from a completely different angle to the Princess one above.

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Now I have no more alternator rebuild photographs because the camera ate them all.  Essentially, we used the commutator ring, the main spindle, and the metal casings from the Princess alternator, with the regulator, and Lucas branded plastic cap from the Capri alternator.  We also used the best of the various bolts from both units in rebuilding the new Frankenstein.  The net result is that the alternator now works properly, which is what this was all about.  So a bit thank you to Danthecapriman for providing the spares, and to Mike for basically cracking on and doing the magic soldering work.

With the alternator off the car, I could address a couple of jobs I'd wanted to do for a while and hadn't had a good excuse to get done.  First up was the alternator bracket which has always been a bit crusty looking.  Treated it to wire brush and black caliper paint, it should bake well since it does get quite hot being bolted straight to the block.  Cleaned up the bolts for the bracket, and the wiring loom, while I was in there.  I also cleaned down the grease that had been hiding behind the alternator.

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With the wiring loom removed I could unwrap the brittle old electrical tap and use a few cable ties (cheers for that idea, Project Binky!) to keep things where they needed to be for when I re-wrap it.  I also degreased it so the new tape had the best chance of sticking.

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Typically, found another bodge in the form of a half-cut wire under some electrical tape that had been added after the rest of the loom was wrapped.  This is the only bit of the wiring loom I've not had off the car (that I know of), so it's hardly surprising there was yet more damage to it.  Mike splice the wire back together with fresh solder and new heatshrink since we didn't have suitable connectors to remake the whole wire.

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Again, I'd show you progress but the camera ate a bunch of illustrative images.  Fortunately there was exactly the right amount of loom tape in the drawer to wrap this section, and not a millimetre to spare.  I repainted the steel P-clips that hold the loom to the front of the block and we extended the electronic ignition wire with a new piece so that it could be more tidily incorporated into the loom.  The wiring on the front of this engine needs all the help it can get when it comes to being tidy.

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With all that reinstalled, we started the car and tested the alternator to see what it was doing.  We now have a reliable, steady, predictable charge that will keep up with system demands as and when required.  It was good to get everything cleaned up a bit too, removing all the historic grime really helps keep everything look much nicer and means I can see when there's a problem that much easier.  The Lucas branded end cap on the alternator is quite pleasing for reasons I can't explain.

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It's still a very messy face ot the engine, it always will be.  There's some cosmetic improvements I can make, I still haven't colour coded the oil filler tube or starter motor to match the new colour scheme and the purple is just starting to bug me now on those.  At some point soon I'll pop them both off and repaint them, they're very easy jobs to do.

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Didn't have time to crack on with the brakes today.  I'm not in as much of a rush to sort those as I was since the BX can pick up the slack.  Mike and I are hoping next Monday can be brakes day, providing our schedules don't get all clashy.

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Top job fellas! 

Im glad my old alternator came in useful for this, I’m also glad that delightful old Lucas end cap lived to be reused! I don’t know why but I also find things like that nice to keep, it’s a nice little detail that the newer parts lack.

great work on the other bits too, getting things clean & tidy makes all the difference.

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The Daily Driver Challenge - Conclusion.

I decided to end the DDC at the point that it was clear the BX would be distracting me from using the Princess every day because it didn't seem fair to do otherwise.  The DDC took place from late November 2018 until early May 2019, a time of year when most forty year old cars are bundled up safe and warm waiting for the show season to begin again.  It was the least ideal time to be using a classic car and likely to be the most challenging, certainly the best way to get a fair estimation of the car's abilities and reliability over that period of time.

The short version for the 24 weeks of the DDC goes like this:

13 weeks of trouble-free boring motoring

1 failure to proceed: warped brake disc.  AA less than useless and refused recovery because I'd had the temerity to break down on the road outside a garage that was closed.

1 failure to proceed that was repaired at the roadside: carburettor issues

Various servicing and minor repairs.

 

The long version is that overall, a car with a reputation for being incredibly unreliable and being asked to drive in all weathers, at all times of day, including in the snow at night, proved itself capable of getting me where I needed to go whenever I needed to go there.  Had I needed to use the car for long distance commuting, I would have done more to prepare the car for use than I did.  Instead, I was asking the car to do between 50 and 100 miles a week, and to be able to go out whenever I needed it to almost every day.  The majority of the mileage was urban only, though there were some longer distance motorway runs and faster A road trips taken as well.  It was used in rush hour on occasion, late night runs, and got caught up in school traffic several times, all of which it coped with perfectly fine.

Repairs were needed.  Mostly this was simply down to parts wearing out, as parts do.  Before the test, a new main earth wire was fitted along with brand new tyres for reliability and safety.  I also used the DDC to highlight any issues I may have overlooked when the car was being used much less, and that meant quite a few small items were replaced that didn't absolutely have to be, things like the reversing light switch (which collapsed after a handful of miles and saw me refitting the original after cleaning it up), the oil pressure switch to cure a minor oil leak, an in-line fuel filter, a new carburettor gasket, a steering column upper bush, and new CV boots.  More serious items required were a lower ball joint, the front wheel bearings, electronic ignition (failed condenser also saw badly burned points), a brake disc, a rebuilt alternator, and some welding to a rear inner arch.  Other than that, a little oil was required since it consumes a small quantity.

Overall, I don't regard the items replaced as being that out of the ordinary for any car of this age and mileage and most of the items were quite old and had done quite a few miles.  At the close of the DDC, the only outstanding issue is the brake rebuild and the reason that hasn't been done is simply a matter of finding the time to strip down and rebuild everything.  I've never done anything with the front brakes in the seven years I've had the car, other than bleeding them, and I imagine previous owners were much the same, mostly because nothing needed to be done until this year.

Would I recommend using a forty year old car every day?  Generally speaking, no.   The problem with an old car is that it's an old car.  Unless you've gone through the whole thing and replaced every consumable item with good quality new, or as good as new, items, you're going to have a bad time.  Parts wear out and you need to be aware that when you press an older car into service you running a greater risk than usual of cascade failure.  I took the chance with this car because I've owned it for a long time and I thought I'd ironed out all the problems I was likely to face.  Many of the parts I've needed have been awkward to acquire, though rarely expensive, and some of the parts have been incorrectly described.  So if I was relying on the car to get me to work and back every day rather than just run me around on my errands most days, my attitude in closing on this experiment would likely be very different.

That said, if you're of the mentality that you want to experience this sort of thing, then go for it.  Just have contingencies in place.  If you're going to use a classic every day for a protracted period of time, it's wise to have a back-up car or someone with a back-up car, that can help you out if you do get stuck.  Also, approach pressing an older car into service like going into a really slow endurance race.  Replacing things like filters and hoses, ignition components, and making sure all your electrical stuff is in good order is very sensible.  Carrying tools and fluids in the boot is also very sensible and, if you can, having spares such as ignition components and belts, is very sensible.  One thing I've learned is that breakdown cover does not always mean breakdown cover, so you have to give yourself a fighting chance of repairing your car yourself to a standard that will get you home.

One positive of the DDC is how much more aware of other road users it's made me.  When you haven't got the driver aids of blind spot monitors and electronic ignition, parking sensors and ABS, you find your driving changes.  You look for and anticipate behaviour you might not otherwise notice.  It makes the act of driving somewhat more tiring as a result because you're concentrating so much more.  However, there were plenty of times that I found myself able to predict bad behaviour from other road users and prevent myself getting into trouble and those are skills I'll be carrying forwards.  I'm not saying driving a classic car will make you a perfect driver, it won't.  What it will do is make you more aware as a driver.  Older cars are less insulated from the outside world too, so I did find I was much more aware of folks on two wheels, and generally speaking people are nicer and behave respectfully towards you.

Now that I've completed the DDC it has proven that I have absolutely no desire to part with the Princess (not that there was any doubt) and that it is quite capable of doing everything I need it to do.  It's proven that I don't need a newer car, that I don't even need a radio, and that it's an affordable form of transport that makes me happy.  If I had to, I could use the Princess as my only car and this experiment has allowed me to get the car in really very good shape overall.  It's not perfect, it's not about to win any shows, and that's fine.  It's a car I can use and that I enjoy to use, and that's all that really matters.

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I doff my hat to you Mr V. Having dailied a couple of Scimitars a few years back it was a challenge in the mid-noughties using a then 30 year old car, though I suspect parts availability for the Scim is [marginally] better than the Princess. At least what you have struggled with has been mainly service items which can go on a car of any age.

It's also good that it hasn't had a bad effect on you and that you don't want to part with the car. I think keeping it as a plaything and continuing your sterling efforts making her better and more useable for modern modern motoring is only a good thing.

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On 4/28/2019 at 6:24 PM, vulgalour said:

Heat of the bulb.  You can't actually turn the interior light off so if you leave the door open the bulb does get hot enough to melt the plastic of the holder, which is exactly what's happened.  Some sort of heatshield would have fixed it, or the ability to turn the switch to an off position, but I guess BL didn't have that much money available.

the original interior light on the Mini 1000 has the same issue, the heat from the filament bulb melting the (very thin) plastic cover thing, though the mini bulb holder does come with a sort of switch thing that means it can be turned off!

 

top idea on changing the bulb to an LED thing, may i ask where you got the  LED from?

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Right then, these brakes.  Princess started no bother as has become the norm, and we trundled over to the unit.  Dismantling everything was actually surprisingly easy, in large part because Mike did that instead of me, but also because things weren't all rusted solid which made a very pleasant change.  The old brake pads still have loads of meat left on them and aren't particularly badly damaged really.  Even the pins and anti rattle/squeal plate things looked like they could be reused (they won't be).  Before disconnecting the hoses to the calipers, Mike stuck a bit of wood in them while I operated the pedal and most of the pistons popped free.

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Annoyingly, 2 of the 8 pots are stuck, so Mike did battle with those on the bench while I dealt with that bit of flaking paint around the side repeater.  It is not my finest painting hour, I must say, at least the rust and bare metal are dealt with and that's all that matters at this point.

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Removing the old discs was delightfully easy.  In fact, none of this brake job has been a war especially, which Mike and I were both surprised about.  To remove the discs you have to remove the split pin and hub nut, then clamp the disc in the vise to unbolt the outer hub part from the disc itself.  I haven't yet torqued up the hub nuts or refitted the split pin, the new discs are just in place until we're ready to put the calipers back on.

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One of the brake caliper piston seals and retaining ring fell off which demonstrated the need for a rebuild (I have the kits, it's a job that will be done before reassembly) and the passenger side disc has started to warp with a very similar section of damage on the surface to what the driver's side had.  Both calipers are ready for a rebuild, perhaps past ready, and while they don't leak and the brakes do meet the legal requirement, it's clear they've not been working as well as they should for quite some time.  At least now we can fix that.  There wasn't enough time to finish faffing with the calipers today and Mike's said he'll get the sticky pistons unstuck this week so that everything can go back together.  The hoses and hard lines all look in good shape, which was nice to see, and while the calipers are scruffy they're certainly not in need of massive amounts of remedial work, just a quick tidy and new seals really.

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The Princess can enjoy a little indoor break for the time being.

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On 5/13/2019 at 7:31 PM, vulgalour said:

The Daily Driver Challenge - Conclusion.

I decided to end the DDC at the point that it was clear the BX would be distracting me from using the Princess every day because it didn't seem fair to do otherwise.  The DDC took place from late November 2018 until early May 2019, a time of year when most forty year old cars are bundled up safe and warm waiting for the show season to begin again.  It was the least ideal time to be using a classic car and likely to be the most challenging, certainly the best way to get a fair estimation of the car's abilities and reliability over that period of time.

The short version for the 24 weeks of the DDC goes like this:

13 weeks of trouble-free boring motoring

1 failure to proceed: warped brake disc.  AA less than useless and refused recovery because I'd had the temerity to break down on the road outside a garage that was closed.

1 failure to proceed that was repaired at the roadside: carburettor issues

Various servicing and minor repairs.

 

The long version is that overall, a car with a reputation for being incredibly unreliable and being asked to drive in all weathers, at all times of day, including in the snow at night, proved itself capable of getting me where I needed to go whenever I needed to go there.  Had I needed to use the car for long distance commuting, I would have done more to prepare the car for use than I did.  Instead, I was asking the car to do between 50 and 100 miles a week, and to be able to go out whenever I needed it to almost every day.  The majority of the mileage was urban only, though there were some longer distance motorway runs and faster A road trips taken as well.  It was used in rush hour on occasion, late night runs, and got caught up in school traffic several times, all of which it coped with perfectly fine.

Repairs were needed.  Mostly this was simply down to parts wearing out, as parts do.  Before the test, a new main earth wire was fitted along with brand new tyres for reliability and safety.  I also used the DDC to highlight any issues I may have overlooked when the car was being used much less, and that meant quite a few small items were replaced that didn't absolutely have to be, things like the reversing light switch (which collapsed after a handful of miles and saw me refitting the original after cleaning it up), the oil pressure switch to cure a minor oil leak, an in-line fuel filter, a new carburettor gasket, a steering column upper bush, and new CV boots.  More serious items required were a lower ball joint, the front wheel bearings, electronic ignition (failed condenser also saw badly burned points), a brake disc, a rebuilt alternator, and some welding to a rear inner arch.  Other than that, a little oil was required since it consumes a small quantity.

Overall, I don't regard the items replaced as being that out of the ordinary for any car of this age and mileage and most of the items were quite old and had done quite a few miles.  At the close of the DDC, the only outstanding issue is the brake rebuild and the reason that hasn't been done is simply a matter of finding the time to strip down and rebuild everything.  I've never done anything with the front brakes in the seven years I've had the car, other than bleeding them, and I imagine previous owners were much the same, mostly because nothing needed to be done until this year.

Would I recommend using a forty year old car every day?  Generally speaking, no.   The problem with an old car is that it's an old car.  Unless you've gone through the whole thing and replaced every consumable item with good quality new, or as good as new, items, you're going to have a bad time.  Parts wear out and you need to be aware that when you press an older car into service you running a greater risk than usual of cascade failure.  I took the chance with this car because I've owned it for a long time and I thought I'd ironed out all the problems I was likely to face.  Many of the parts I've needed have been awkward to acquire, though rarely expensive, and some of the parts have been incorrectly described.  So if I was relying on the car to get me to work and back every day rather than just run me around on my errands most days, my attitude in closing on this experiment would likely be very different.

That said, if you're of the mentality that you want to experience this sort of thing, then go for it.  Just have contingencies in place.  If you're going to use a classic every day for a protracted period of time, it's wise to have a back-up car or someone with a back-up car, that can help you out if you do get stuck.  Also, approach pressing an older car into service like going into a really slow endurance race.  Replacing things like filters and hoses, ignition components, and making sure all your electrical stuff is in good order is very sensible.  Carrying tools and fluids in the boot is also very sensible and, if you can, having spares such as ignition components and belts, is very sensible.  One thing I've learned is that breakdown cover does not always mean breakdown cover, so you have to give yourself a fighting chance of repairing your car yourself to a standard that will get you home.

One positive of the DDC is how much more aware of other road users it's made me.  When you haven't got the driver aids of blind spot monitors and electronic ignition, parking sensors and ABS, you find your driving changes.  You look for and anticipate behaviour you might not otherwise notice.  It makes the act of driving somewhat more tiring as a result because you're concentrating so much more.  However, there were plenty of times that I found myself able to predict bad behaviour from other road users and prevent myself getting into trouble and those are skills I'll be carrying forwards.  I'm not saying driving a classic car will make you a perfect driver, it won't.  What it will do is make you more aware as a driver.  Older cars are less insulated from the outside world too, so I did find I was much more aware of folks on two wheels, and generally speaking people are nicer and behave respectfully towards you.

Now that I've completed the DDC it has proven that I have absolutely no desire to part with the Princess (not that there was any doubt) and that it is quite capable of doing everything I need it to do.  It's proven that I don't need a newer car, that I don't even need a radio, and that it's an affordable form of transport that makes me happy.  If I had to, I could use the Princess as my only car and this experiment has allowed me to get the car in really very good shape overall.  It's not perfect, it's not about to win any shows, and that's fine.  It's a car I can use and that I enjoy to use, and that's all that really matters.

Your comments about 40 year old running gear are spot on. If you think back to when the Princess was new, and then go back another 40 years, the difference in technology between the two eras was even more pronounced. The fact that the Princess is capable of being a daily driver is testament to your perseverance, but it's one of the reasons why I replaced all of the 403's running gear with modern stuff.......I do want to use it as an everyday car, and 50 year old oily bits weren't going to make that either reliable or pleasant.

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Those calipers look massively over powered for the car?! I mean four pots and two brake lines!

The disc setup looks very much like my MGBs. I'm not looking forward to trying to remove the hub and disc combo.

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2 minutes ago, SiC said:

Those calipers look massively over powered for the car?! I mean four pots and two brake lines!
 

Really good brakes on these cars: two circuits, both circuits work both front wheels. Princess calipers were the brake mod for fast Fords for years.

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I agree, the brakes are massively over-engineered for the car and it's not hard to see why they continue to be one of the most valuable items on even a scrap car, as Asimo says, they were a cheap and effective performance upgrade on Fords for a very long time, and standard fare for many a kit car.  Realistically it doesn't need the brakes its got and most Princesses seem to have survived without ever needing to have the front discs or pads replaced from new, it's entirely plausible that the ones on my car are the originals from 1980.  What's going to be interesting is how good the brakes will be when we're done, they've never been particularly lacking until the warped disc incident so I imagine they could even compare favourably to the BX brakes.

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  • 1 month later...

Huff.

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While the Princess has been at the unit waiting for brake parts, someone has been snooping around everything and snapped the door mirror off.  Fortunately I can repair it.  I had initially thought the weld between the original arm and the new threaded portion I had to attach is what had broken, it was actually part of the weld itself which had a weak point.  That said, the amount of force required to bend the mirror forwards to snap the weld must have been considerable and deliberate so I'm not particularly thrilled about it.  I'm just relieved it didn't do more damage, had the weld not failed it could have put a nasty dent in that panel, or worse.  I'll repair the mirror stem when I do the rear door, which I'll be doing over the next few days, since it seems a bit daft to haul the welder out just to do one little blob on the mirror stem.

In other news, the brake parts arrived so we could get on with that.  Mike had already stripped down, inspected, painted, and baked the caliper bodies as well as retapping one of the dodgy threads to a slightly larger size to accept a slightly larger bleed nipple.  There's three bleed nipples on each brake caliper on the Princess.  The old caliper pistons were difficult to remove, some had stuck, and several had corrosion and pitting bad enough to render them scrap.  Fortunately, the corrosion hadn't attacked the bores which are nice and clean, it was limited to the part of the piston that should be protected by the dirt seal, much of which had disintegrated on both pistons.  I bought a set of stainless steel pistons from eBay so this shouldn't be an issue in the future.

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I've never done calipers before so Mike was talking me through how to do them.  Much simpler than I expected in all honesty.  We then encountered a problem when we realised that both of the O ring seals needed to be fitted before installing the pistons because otherwise the metal locking ring thing won't seat.  It's just as well we did have to remove the pistons, one of the seals we'd installed broke up as the piston was removed.  All of the other seals are perfectly fine and these are brand new seals, there was no fighting with assembly of the parts, it was all as snug as it should be, so we think this was just a defective seal and nothing more.  A new set of seals has been ordered so the brakes will have to wait a little longer for those to arrive before we can complete reassembly.

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At this point I've spent more money trying to rebuild these calipers than it would have cost to just buy a new pair.  Unfortunately, I'm invested in the rebuild to the point that it wouldn't now be cost effective to buy a new pair, so let's hope nothing else goes wrong.

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Quote

When you haven't got the driver aids of blind spot monitors and electronic ignition, parking sensors and ABS, you find your driving changes.  You look for and anticipate behaviour you might not otherwise notice.  It makes the act of driving somewhat more tiring as a result because you're concentrating so much more.  However, there were plenty of times that I found myself able to predict bad behaviour from other road users and prevent myself getting into trouble and those are skills I'll be carrying forwards. 

This a milion times. The old farts amongst us will recall driving in the 80's with none of this witchcrafty stuff. Better drivers? Yes, I think so.  To an extent.

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The seal kit and bleed nipple dust covers that I ordered arrived today, much sooner than expected, so Mike got busy rebuilding the calipers and now they're all done and looking lovely.

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Bleeding process went very smoothly and everything was going well.  All that needed to be done was nip up the last bleed nipple and put the dust caps and wheels back on.  The last bleed nipple is the one that had to have the thread retapped.  The last bleed nipple did this.

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Great joy.  Fortunately, the spare calipers haven't sold so we're pulling those off sale and hoping we can dismantle them to give us the bits we need and that they're in good enough shape to be rebuilt.  At least I've enough spare components to do this after having to order the other seal kit.  If we can't salvage things this way then it looks like all this effort to rebuild the front calipers, and the money invested, as a waste of time and I'll end up having to buy new calipers.  Oh well, that's just the way these jobs go sometimes.

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