Shite in Miniature II

[tom13]

16 hours ago, flat4alfa said:

Yes both of those definitely released

I have that hulk truck, minus the cage and figure in the rear. It's actually a really good little model. I had no idea it was from this set though.

[sierraman]

I think the COTY is based on who gives the best steak meal or trips to strip joints. It can’t be anything to do with the competency of the car with winners like the Talbot Alpine or the Renault 9.

[tom13]

On 4/13/2021 at 3:02 PM, bunglebus said:

I take it back - found another charity shop with those irritating £1 plastic bags, so I have some Chinese toot as well as a Zylmex Z-car,

a Realtoy bus,

a no-name Corgi Merc with THOSE wheels,

and a newish Matchbox Land Rover

Matchbox bus came in the post, I had the 5 pack this is from once upon a time, had a red Beetle, camper trailer and a trailer with a jet ski

Haven't been on this thread in ages. Some good bits you have found. 

Would you consider any sales or trading  with the splitscreen?

I love collecting ones with any cycling, or motorcycle links to them.

[bunglebus]

44 minutes ago, tom13 said:

Would you consider any sales or trading  with the splitscreen?

I'd like to keep that one, and find the Beetle that goes with it. Not too bothered about the camping trailer and jetski. The car in the set is an E class Merc I think

[bunglebus]

1 hour ago, tom13 said:

I have that hulk truck, minus the cage and figure in the rear. It's actually a really good little model. I had no idea it was from this set though.

One of my "obsession" castings for some reason. I have quite a collection of different versions, one or two are still eluding me though. Might dig them all out for a photoshoot

[tom13]

12 minutes ago, bunglebus said:

One of my "obsession" castings for some reason. I have quite a collection of different versions, one or two are still eluding me though. Might dig them all out for a photoshoot

I will take a picture of mine if I remember.

I almost thought someone had put a sticker on it when I bought it. It looks cool because it has the chunky off road tyres.  I have the same model but the standard red one and it doesn't look anywhere near as good.

[flat4alfa]

52 minutes ago, bunglebus said:

One of my "obsession" castings for some reason. I have quite a collection of different versions, one or two are still eluding me though. Might dig them all out for a photoshoot

What do you mean might.  It's Tat Friday!   😁

[flat4alfa]

2 hours ago, bunglebus said:

Better?

Much!

[bunglebus]

NO. Thinking Swedish car, made in Italy with German wheels - needs a European paint scheme. Haven't made my mind up yet - but I have made headlights as one was missing

got a trick to try with making them look realistic. We'll see if it works

[Datsuncog]

On 4/15/2021 at 4:50 PM, bunglebus said:

The Buick regal is depicted as both a police car with a single bar of roof lights on P13 as well as the Gotham police version with a roof bristling with lights and paraphernalia on P4

As far as I can tell, the C416 single-lightbar Regal was sold from 1977 onwards as a development of the 'Kojak' Regal, complete with a plastic police officer and wearing generic Police decals. 

The standard version was discontinued in 1979, making this its very last catalogue appearance, and it was effectively replaced by the Superman variant which hit the shelves in January 1979 and carried on until 1981.

The C260 'City of Metropolis' Buick police cruiser was included in the Superman character range despite having no real-life precedent in the films (which mainly used Plymouth police cars) and was essentially a canny way of squeezing more sales out of the same old casting, but with a few minor changes (such as a white roof and the extra light bar), and marketing it in a different box. It was also included in Superman gift sets.

I did have a very ratty-looking Metropolis version, for which I was totally scalped by an unscrupulous antiques dealer back when I was twelve or so (a fiver in 1992! What was I even thinking?!).

I've also a decent, boxed mainline version, and hopefully at some point I'll find a replacement officer figure and red light lens, as they're missing. 

The super-rare Marks & Spencer branded Regal Fire Chief also had the same double light-bar arrangement as the Superman peelermobile, but was only available for a very short period of time. Never seen one. It's possible that the M&S version actually came before the Superman version, in late 1978, but information is scarce.

 

On 4/15/2021 at 4:50 PM, bunglebus said:

The most interesting pair are the obviously mocked up green Caprice on P16 which I don't think was released in that colour, and the again mocked-up Senator opposite which was at least made but is uncommon.

The green C325 Caprice did appear in that metallic green colour initially, but it's quite hard to find. I've been after a decent one for quite a while! So far, all the ones that have popped up have been too far away, too rough, or too damn pricey. These two are currently live on everyone's favourite* internet auction site.

It also appeared painted blue over silver, usually paired with whitewall tyres, but the casting is most commonly found as the C327 Yellow Cab (launched in May 1980), as a police car (C326) or as the later not-quite-NASCAR in 'STP' racing colours (C341) - and all of these variants can appear with or without whitewalls (personally, I'm not a fan as I think the white print appears far too heavy-looking on the standard Corgi wheels) .

The Caprice's final appearance was, of course, as the Corgitronics Fire Chief Car (1008), with blacked-out windows and all the opening features deleted.

The civilian and police versions of the Caprice were only produced for export markets like the US,  so none officially hit the shelves in the UK. They also only appeared for 1980 and 1981, before being deleted and replaced with the Caprice Racer - with a production run total of 42,000 for the plain model, and 55,000 for the police version. By contrast, well over 600,000 examples of the police Regals were shifted between 1977 and 1981.

The C329 Opel Senator is a real beaut, and one of my absolute favourites from this era. A small number of early toys were produced in dark blue, but gold seems to be the more commonly found version for the civilian passenger cars. Various police and other service versions were also produced, some for export markets only.

19 hours ago, AndyW201 said:

Shame no one did a model of that Escort at the time! Although the BBurago Zakspeed MK2 would make a fair replica...

Interestingly, Corgi did produce a prototype Mk2 Escort in 1/36 scale - though it seems like it would have been a driving school car, with steerable wheels. Still, once the basic casting was in place it would have been daft not to develop sport/rally variants... again, it's a real pity this never came to fruition either.

(Seen here with the rather tasty Lancia Gamma and Renault Fuego, which were equally destined not to be part of the lineup.)
 

8 hours ago, sierraman said:

Corgi had planned (for some bizarre reason) to bring out a Talbot Horizon, a mock up was made by Basset Lowke who Corgi outsourced to make prototypes, it came up for auction a while back. It’s very possible it’s sat in a filing cabinet or some old retired engineers loft. 

 

7 hours ago, flat4alfa said:

It's a bit of a mess though

https://www.gildings.co.uk/auction/lot/199-two-corgi-toys-prototypes-chrysler-horizon-gls-and-a-bmw-7-series/?lot=23666&sd=1

Doesn't look too bad for a wooden mock-up; I understand that these were usually produced quite quickly by contractors  (such as B-L) more as something to hold up in board meetings, than as a reference model for subsequent design work. I'd be more worried that Gildings don't seem to know the difference between a 6-Series and a 7-Series!

The Corgi catalogue for 1985 shows a similar pre-prod version of the C258 Toyota Supra, and it looks absolutely rubbish with the lines all wrong - though the final result on the shelves turned out pretty decent.

 

Marcel Van Cleemput's 'Big Book of Corgi' has a very interesting section on prototype manufacture, stating that up until the late 1960s hardly any prototypes were prepared by Corgi's design studio, and of those that were, only about 10% failed to be carried forward into production. He states that in 1964, a mere twelve prototypes were prepared, all of which were eventually accepted for production. Whereas in the first six months of 1974, his team built 100 prototypes - of which only a handful saw production. This image taken from  his ledger of the time shows only four out of twenty proposals were taken up:

Note that it includes the rather disparagingly termed 'Cheap Breakdown Truck' (C702).

In the early days, it seems that senior management simply told the designers what models they wanted to see produced - or were sometimes approached to produce, to tie-in with a real product launch like the MGB (see also the regrettable BMC Road Rover saga). The designers then simply went ahead with the necessary technical drawings to pass over to the tooling section, and the soon the test models were being churned out.

A handful of speculative model prototypes were made, perhaps just to see how a mechanism might work, or to try to push a pet project (like the rather lovely Saab 96 rally car, which in the early 1960s was all over the motoring press from Erik Carlsson's daring exploits, but never did get the green light).

Van Cleemput maintains that in those days, few staff members were allowed meaningful input into the selection process, and were certainly not encouraged to come up with their own suggestions.

The Traveller and the Jensen would have been nice too, mind.

However, with diecast toy sales already entering a decline from their late '60s high point, and the increasing cost of independent toy safety testing to be factored in, Corgi entered a period where wrangling between sales managers about what would go ahead and what wouldn't became a constant sticking point.

While their 1950s and '60s heyday had seen huge sales and rapid product development as kids hoovered up whatever new designs were launched each month with gusto, by the early 1970s Corgi's sales had slowed and the average age of their customers had dropped significantly - along with their relative spending power.

With cars no longer the aspirational items they once were, industrial unrest at home, a broader economic recession worldwide and cheap far-eastern competitors biting into their export (and domestic) market share, Corgi's new toy designs had to generate more profit per unit while remaining relevant in the range for much longer.

TV and film tie-ins also became more important than ever, which is demonstrated by their placement at the front of catalogues - simply appealing to kids who were already into collecting toy cars by producing detailed scale models wasn't enough, Corgi had to sell to kids who weren't into cars; but might be into Batman/Superman comics, films like the James Bond franchise, and TV shows like Starsky & Hutch, Kojak or The Professionals. Or, indeed, The Muppet Show. In appealing to younger kids, the bean-counters were aware that parents and grandparents were the ones who made the ultimate spending decisions, so Corgi's product development and marketing changed accordingly. Tough times.

In trying to satisfy these demands, the design team were frequently caught in the middle.

By the early 1970s Mettoy's Marketing Department wielded greater power, and the introduction of selection committees composed of a dozen or more people to make decisions and accept ideas into the range. Rather than simply producing a nice-looking model car, suddenly guesstimates of sales projections for the next three years were factored into the appraisal, and all model suggestions needed to be accompanied by a prototype. Moreover, those involved in the selection committees began proposing their own suggestions for models too, leading to more and more prototypes being prepared and presented. Some of which were just, erm, weird.

Is that... a car that looks like Richard Nixon? Okaaaay...

The capacity to scratch-build so many models wasn't there, so the design team resorted to hiring independent modelmakers to produce the prototypes. Eventually, a separate in-house prototype department was set up, but even the most basic of models took still around 20 to 25 hours to make, rising to 30 to 40 hours if it featured opening doors or suchlike - with those involving working mechanisms taking considerably longer. So self-employed modelmakers and other precision manufacturers such as Bassett Lowke remained valuable partners for Corgi's designers. 

These prototypes tended to be produced with very short turnaround times, their lines eyeballed from motoring magazine photographs rather than scaled properly by the design team by measuring up a 1:1 version - which I think is why they're sometimes a bit crap-looking, though there may be another reason.

Even after all this work, Van Cleemput mentions that within the committees all it took was one or two strongly dissenting voices to kill a proposed model stone dead. As ever, those who spoke up strongly in favour of model that ultimately didn't sell well tended to lose credibility, which rather dissuaded people from arguing against those vocal members who wanted to quash a particular proposal - since the only way to prove the naysayers wrong was for a competitor to make and successfully sell a rejected model.

He found that the best way to get an idea accepted was to present a first-class model, beautifully painted and finished, and with working features present. Photos and drawings did little to win over sceptical committee members and, as he puts it, "bad models would invariably get a 'thumbs down', so one could still wield a certain amount of power in a quiet way".

Maybe, for reasons unknown, Bassett Lowke were instructed not to make their prototype Horizon model too good??

 

As well just the casting choices themselves,  a huge numbers of colour variation prototypes were also produced for focus group tests, to determine the most appealing colours and (hopefully) maximise sales.

New wheel designs were also produced as prototypes for the same reason.

Extrapolating Van Cleemput's estimates, only about 20% of what his modelling team mocked up in the 70s and early 80s made it through to the next stage of design, with the majority (including huge numbers of pre-production colour tests for focus groups) being binned simply because there was nowhere to store so many models - "literally hundreds were discarded, just thrown in the waste bins" - although he did manage to hang on to a few, which seem to be often the ones that turn up at auction. No doubt sandwich boxes had a role to play also...

In his later years, and after completing his Great Book of Corgi, Marcel Van Cleemput bequeathed his entire diecast collection to Nottingham Toy Museum for preservation. He had insisted in his employment contract with Mettoy that as Chief Designer, he should be entitled to one free model of everything that came off the production line, and he had carefully stored every single one of them over his thirty year career with them.

Rather distressingly, only two years later the Toy Museum sent the whole lot to auction, splitting up an irreplaceable archive consisting of every model and colour/box variation that Corgi had produced from Day 1, plus a large number of unique prototypes.

Man, I'm sure he was well pissed off when he heard about that.

[Amishtat]

3 hours ago, flat4alfa said:

What do you mean might.  It's Tat Friday!   😁

It is! Thanks to Eddy.. 

 

[Dick Longbridge]

54 minutes ago, Datsuncog said:

Marcel Van Cleemput's 'Big Book of Corgi' ...

Wow. I'd forgotten I had that stashed away with the pocket book. Will need to have a peruse now I've just dug it back out! 

 

[Amishtat]

10 minutes ago, Dick Longbridge said:

Wow. I'd forgotten I had that stashed away with the pocket book. Will need to have a peruse now I've just dug it back out! 

 

I need to get that book! 

[flat4alfa]

13 minutes ago, Dick Longbridge said:

BMW 325i

Can't miss the authentic bonnet hinge

[Dick Longbridge]

19 minutes ago, Amishtat said:

I need to get that book! 

Do it! The detail is fantastic and it's always fascinating to look at the history of certain models. 

18 minutes ago, flat4alfa said:

BMW 325i

Can't miss the authentic bonnet hinge

One of a few models I bought from the doctor recently. I've not owned that model before and bloody love the engineering that's gone into the mechanism to make the bonnet twitch up, slide forward and then tilt. You just wouldn't get that kind of effort put into a model now. 

[morrisoxide]

Thanks to the tip off from bunglebus I got these from The Entertainer today. 

I didn't know this one existed in Matchbox form.

I might have a go at making a Midget racer and trailer.

More info on the George DuVall / So California Plating Co 1936 Ford.

https://www.customcarchronicle.com/early-custom-cars/socalif-plating-truck/

 

[bunglebus]

2 hours ago, Datsuncog said:

even the most basic of models took still around 20 to 25 hours to make

It takes me longer than that do do a basic repaint and wheel swap!

Quote

literally hundreds were discarded, just thrown in the waste bins

gives me the shivers just thinking about it. You could live off the income generated by selling a few a month 

[bunglebus]

8 minutes ago, morrisoxide said:

 

I want one too!

[flat4alfa]

12 minutes ago, morrisoxide said:

Wow!  I knew of the DuVall car and the Carson-style top - but no idea of the Matchbox model

[morrisoxide]

2 hours ago, bunglebus said:

I want one too!

I would have picked up more to distribute, but there was only one unfortunately, I'll keep a look out.  I almost missed them, they where on the bottom shelf opposite to the rest of the HW/MB.

2 hours ago, flat4alfa said:

Wow!  I knew of the DuVall car and the Carson-style top - but no idea of the Matchbox model

Yeah, it seems a strange one for MB to cast but a very welcome one.

[Datsuncog]

More good news, for the Hot Wheels junkies among us...

I believe there was some interest in this pair of Power Trip muscle machines from @bunglebus?

Picked up last night from Tesco; a bit of digging revealed that they actually had all five in the range available.

But I only picked up the Barracuda and the Chevy LUV.  They are very nicely finished though, with bags of detail and the diecast base gives them a nice heft; much heavier than regular Hot Wheels. Worth £7 a pop? I'll leave that for you lot to decide - but then, I am very cheap.

If anyone has any further interest in the others, I could certainly go back...

 

Oh, and some good news - looks like the market at St George's may be reopening on Friday 30 April, in line with retail restrictions being lifted in Northern Ireland. So make yourself a note in the diary, kids, and by all means give me a shout if there's anything in particular you're looking out for...

[Jon]

I saw an offer on 3 Hotwheels premiums or whatever they're called yesterday, for $20 (about £10). They included the Amazon wagon and the rally car set that includes the jacked 959 on rubber tyres. Is that good value?

Am guessing any savings would be utterly plundered by the postage outside of NZ, though...

[17-Coffees]

On 4/15/2021 at 8:36 AM, bunglebus said:

If you're going back I can give you a shopping list! Target, Wal-Mart and Dollar General get cars in exclusive colours that we never see in the UK, you could make a mint bringing a suitcase of those back

I just knew that the US often got a lot more special stuff, or at least it seemed it compared to where I am! I'll have to get a photos of the others in my collection, only about 10 others at the moment. 2 of them being Honda City Turbo 2's in different livery's! 😁

Sadly I've a feeling it'll be next year before I'll be back over due to world events and such. 

[bunglebus]

8 hours ago, Jon said:

I saw an offer on 3 Hotwheels premiums or whatever they're called yesterday, for $20 (about £10). They included the Amazon wagon and the rally car set that includes the jacked 959 on rubber tyres. Is that good value?

It is if they're ones you want. Generally about £7 each in the UK. That 959 is part of the Car Culture Wild Terrain set, that and the 67 Camaro are my pick of the bunch

 

[Jon]

2 hours ago, bunglebus said:

It is if they're ones you want. 

I think in all honesty, that's why they stayed on the pegs. Part of the attraction of buying new Hot Wheels now and again is their general availability - and pocket money prices. Which even at a 'mere' £3.33 apiece, these aren't. I do quite like the Amazon (of which there were several) but I can fish some old tut out of the 50p tub at my favourite model shop and come away far more satisfied and spend far, far less!

[flat4alfa]

Just went to big Tesco for the first time in two weeks.  By 'big Tesco' I mean a big one with a CLOCK TOWER

Useless.  Three Matchbox in the tub, one XK120 and two Trailer Trawler; so there has been no restocking in two weeks.  A good few £5 5-packs, but just the packs with the blue Caprice or white Hudson Police.

No Premiums, Power Trips or anything else whatsoever.  It doesn't look like there ever has been either.  I am feeling deprived and might write to my MP.  Grrr.

[Dick Longbridge]

So, the Corgi E30 BMW 325i as spotted recently by flat4alfa. Thanks to thedoctor on here for selling it. 

The bonnet mechanism on these is a small work of art. 

1. Lift front edge. 

2. Pull forward.

3. Lift bonnet away from the screen.

Oh, it also has a really well detailed 6 pot lump, sliding sunroof, opening doors and well detailed interior. There's no way in hell that any cheap, mass-produced model would have that level of attention to detail lavished on it now. Love it.

[RoadworkUK]

This Grand National week saw me wandering into a local charity shop (about bloody time) and investing fifty pee on this Buick, er, Grand National.

It's quite a nice thing, even if it is a little proportionally unsound, and shows no evidence of having ever been played with.

The metallic / metalflake maroon doesn't quite pop on camera, but it's gert lush in the flesh, and the "remove once - lost forever" pop-off bonnet is quite fun.

And hey, it's for charidee.

[junkyarddog]

Decided to do a quick lash up this afternoon. 

Maisto/Hot wheels tow truck abomination. 

Nothing fancy just a straight forward cut 'n shut bodge.

"Just how I likes 'em M8"

[bunglebus]

^ those earlier Buicks are quite hard to find complete

So are these - came with a handful of pretty tatty Matchbox and was fortunate to survive just chucked in a bag