Looks as if GM has finally killed off Saab...

[gtd2000]

The Chinese have made direct GM knock offs for about 8 years now...

 

 

The QQ became the center of an industrial copyright and intellectual rights controversy, as General Motors claimed the car was a copy of the Daewoo Matiz (which is marketed outside South Korea as the Chevrolet Spark). GM executives demonstrated the extent of the design duplication, noting for example that the doors of the QQ and those of the Spark are interchangeable [2] without modification.

[dieselnutjob]

Couldn't GM sell the Saabs with a GM badge on them? bit like the Seat Exeo

 

keep the cars and just get rid of all the distribution chain, dealers, sales, marketing etc etc

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

Couldn't GM sell the Saabs with a GM badge on them? bit like the Seat Exeo

 

keep the cars and just get rid of all the distribution chain, dealers, sales, marketing etc etc

 

Economies of scale. Seat use secondhand and paid for technology/tooling to sell a fair amount of cars. The Saabs were a combo of old tech and poor sales. Even if they badged it as a Vauxhall, it's cometing with the Insignia. GM looked at the whole Saab thing in the same way Ford looked at Volvo and Jaguar and just couldn't be bothered. Stick to what you know best, in other words.

 

GM's mistake may well have been trying to chase Audi sales. Maybe if they'd forgotten all that and designed a funky Saab 92 inspired small car to compete with the Mini and A1.......? We'll never know.

[Wilko220]

All the other stuff aside, I did think that the new 9-5 was the best looking new car on the market (apart from the Jag XJ perhaps).

[dieselnutjob]

I would rather have a Saab that an Audi. I know the first generation 9-3 had its faults but all of the others seemed to be really good.

[Volksy]

Oddly my 9-3 was one of the most reliable cars I've ever had.

[gtd2000]

Quite possibly the best SAAB ever

 

[Guest Tony Hayers]

Quite possibly the best SAAB ever

 

 

nah, the best SAAB (nice to see correct script) evah -

 

 

Not that I am being bias, with me owning a 9000 that looks like the car above

 

What does suprise me is that SAAB going down the pan has only run for 3 pages on AS. Renault can a couple of shit models next year and it trundles on for 12 pages or so (TLDNR and its Ren stuff so CBA). WTF!!1111!! If it was Citroen I could understand it going on and on and on and on as it does with them, but 12 pages for the Laguna and Modus. Pah.

[gtd2000]

I see you have a good sense of humour - a rehashed FIAT is better than a rebadged/facelifted Subaru WRX with some STI bits thrown in

 

If that's your, car it looks in nice shape.

[gtd2000]

A friend of mine called tonight to tell me that SAAB had gone down the pan and wanted to know if I was concerned about getting parts for our 92x.

 

I said not at all. It was made in Japan by Subaru....he wondered WTF I was talking about until I explained.....

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

I would rather have a Saab that an Audi. I know the first generation 9-3 had its faults but all of the others seemed to be really good.

 

Indeed. The 900 style 9-3 with leather'n'wood is a nice place to be. They don't handle anything like as badly as some would make out - they're just ordinary to drive but in a good looking package. Just like an Audi then.

 

I feel sorry for Saab and Saab dealer employees - not what you want to hear at Xmas is it?

[Mr_Bo11ox]

I find it mega depressing about SAAB. The fact is the modern car industry just has no room for any players who are not MASSIVE GLOBAL CORPORATIONS. SAAB is just not relevant in 2011, end of. Even as little as 15 years ago it was a player, today its totally redundant.

 

I thought that Victor Muller just might make it as he seemed to be a man with a sort of vision, and I thought he might be the man to prove that a car manufacturer could survive on lower volumes if it did some savvy deals buying in engines and bits and bobs and thus dodged some of the heaviest development costs. I thought if a car company of that size was essentially run by one guy he might be quick enough on his feet to keep things turning over, a bit like Peter Wheeler. But in the end he couldn’t juggle the cash flows sufficiently and it all ended in tragedy. I often thought if I won the euromillions i’d just give it all to him and let him spend it on SAAB, its as good a use of it as any I reckon. (Obv Ms_B might have something to say about that like).

[alfetta]

It was inevitable. GM didn't kill Saab - it was a dying breed for years and they kept it going for as long as possible. The GM 900's were good robust cars and anyone that thinks the pre GM stuff was really any better is living in dreamland.

 

Yeah eveyone slagged off the GM900 for it's cav chassis, but I remember at launch nothing but praise and a huge improvement of the old model...

 

I loved my classic T16S but to be honest all the 'proper' saabs I owned, (bar a '75 99 and an early 9000) were mostly constant hassle to own. The GM 900S was a touch boring, but I never had any problems with it....

[scooters]

Following this news I'm definitely gonna Target a giffer spec 95 in the future

[Felly Magic]

When I worked for an independent bus co in York, the gaffer had an early 9-5, the gaffer's wife had a newer 9-3, and the head of admin also had a 9-5 that was a year old. 2 of the drivers also had Saabs! The gaffer was a millionaire too, but chose not to show it! The gaffer lent me his 9-5 when the Fiesta I had broke down. It was a really nice motor to drive, and I actually wouldn't mind owning one myself one day.

[marcello-gandini]

I see you have a good sense of humour - a rehashed FIAT is better than a rebadged/facelifted Subaru WRX with some STI bits thrown in

 

The 9000 ended up sharing very little with the other Type 4 cars, according to the wikipedia article only seven parts are interchangeable which is more than I thought.

 

Is it only Volkswagen that can get away with platform and engine sharing? It doesn't seem to hurt Audi that they share fundamental bits with various lesser Volkswagens, Skodas and SEATs.

 

I've just seen one or two new 9-5s, they are good looking cars and don't look anything like the Insignia they're based on. It's a shame they didn't launch it as an estate, I think we'd see a lot more of them - concern about the future of SAAB must have put people off too.

[gtd2000]

I see you have a good sense of humour - a rehashed FIAT is better than a rebadged/facelifted Subaru WRX with some STI bits thrown in

 

The 9000 ended up sharing very little with the other Type 4 cars, according to the wikipedia article only seven parts are interchangeable which is more than I thought.

 

Is it only Volkswagen that can get away with platform and engine sharing? It doesn't seem to hurt Audi that they share fundamental bits with various lesser Volkswagens, Skodas and SEATs.

 

I've just seen one or two new 9-5s, they are good looking cars and don't look anything like the Insignia they're based on. It's a shame they didn't launch it as an estate, I think we'd see a lot more of them - concern about the future of SAAB must have put people off too.

 

I didn't realise they actually date back to 1984!

 

To be honest, the only reason we bought the SAAB 92x was because it was really a Subaru, came with a 4 year GM warranty (vs 3 year Subaru), 2 years servicing included and was of higher specification to the Impreza for a lower price due to the GM Employee pricing gimmick that was running in 2005.

 

It's the same story with my own shite history - the only reason I ever bought a Proton Persona (x2) was due to it being a Mitsubishi Lancer, same goes for the '86 Pony using Mitsubishi mechanicals.

 

Triumph Acclaims did well based on the Honda Ballade too, not to mention the subsequent Rover models

 

I'm all for platform and engine sharing if it gives me a cheaper car than the original

[John F]

OK, contentious comment warning:

 

I've always found SAABs to be a bit munterish... and I'm sure they're very worthy, but there's something about them that ever so gently - but quite insistently - whispers "cock". So I'll not shed a tear at their passing.

 

But hey, taste in cars is a personal thing. Each to their own, etc.

[marcello-gandini]

That's funny, because much of your post whispers "cock" to me.

[John F]

That's funny, because much of your post whispers "cock" to me.

 

So because I don't like a brand of car that's reason for a personal attack, is it?

 

Explain yourself, pal.

[Cavcraft]

That's funny, because much of your post whispers "cock" to me.

 

So because I don't like a brand of car that's reason for a personal attack, is it?

 

Explain yourself, pal.

 

Don't waste your breath John, he's a troll. Just add him to your blocked list and ignore his baiting.

[dollywobbler]

That's funny, because much of your post whispers "cock" to me.

 

Whereas your posts SCREAM 'cock' to me. ^^ Nice pot/kettle effect there.

 

Back on topic, I've had the misfortune to spend quite a bit of time behind the wheel of a Saab 9-5. It was bloody awful. Low pressure turbo giffermatic and it was just horrific. Felt really cheap and plasticky inside, the ride wasn't much cop, the steering was utterly, utterly dead (something they managed to carry over successfully from the 9000) and when you booted it, it confused the hell out of the electronics. It couldn't decide which gear it should select, so would just pause. By the time it made its mind up, the turbo boost had gone so, there would be another delay before it suddenly woke up and took off. It didn't seem any better in manual 'button on the wheel' mode either. It was completely laughable as a premium product. The Volvo S60/V70 walloped it into the ground in every conceivable way. If you sell crap, especially premium-priced crap, don't be surprised if buyers go elsewhere.

[John F]

That's funny, because much of your post whispers "cock" to me.

 

So because I don't like a brand of car that's reason for a personal attack, is it?

 

Explain yourself, pal.

 

Don't waste your breath John, he's a troll. Just add him to your blocked list and ignore his baiting.

 

Yep Billy, I just found the pop he had at scooters on 8th Dec. Sad fucker, isn't he?

[Richard]

My friend has a musical cock, he never lets me hear the end of it.

[ashmicro]

Speaking of SAABs and folks who don't wish to show their wealth - a bloke I know invented some granule things which are GR64 for clearing up chemical spillages. He promptly sold the IPR to a big firm (he's not allowed to tell who this firm is). He got a metric fuckload of money for this (£3 million has been bandied about by others), yet he drives a really knackered 9000 because it was the first (and only) brand new car he ever bought, and he can't bear to part with it. His wife has a mullered XJ-S 3.6.

[Cavcraft]

SAAB used to have a pretty unique (general) customer base and even second hand they attracted a certain type of buyer. I suspect poor knowledge/pub bore remarks from potentially interested buyers put them off, what with the (supposed) running costs and the price of parts.

[pompei]

I've always really liked the old 900 turbo though have never driven one. That one on RR that all the fuss was about (Pandaselecta's) is quite tempting but for the fact that my overdraft is bigger than Italy's and it does seem to have a few rust "issues". And I know absolutely f*** all about them. And suspect they might be a disappointment now.

[Quintus]

It's a crying shame that Saab have gone bust, particularly for all the employees. They always were idiosyncratic, which I guess is part of the problem for many potential buyers.

 

I've only ever driven one Saab, which was a base spec 9-5 2.0t auto sometime around 2005ish. Quite liked it to be honest.

 

Many year's ago my mum's then boss had an E34 BMW 5 series swiftly followed by a Saab 9000 and he always maintained that the 9000 was the better car, particularly as far as reliability was concerned.

[dollywobbler]

Actually, I've just remembered what I hated most about the Saab 9-5. The column stalks. When you operated them, it sounded like someone cracking their knuckles. It really set my teeth on edge! So if you see a Saab not indicating, have sympathy rather than anger.

[forddeliveryboy]

I adore (real) old Saabs. Excellent handling cars, aerodynamic, safe, bombproof, high quality, just so stylish, intelligent - plain and simple a pleasure to own. One of the nicest ever was a '84 900 16v turbo in two-tone grey. It felt very expensive and went like the wind. And girls really loved it

 

Pre-GM cars were tough as tough could be, a bit like Scaninavian-ised Citroens (pre Peugeot shite). But of course many think those Citroens were flimsy and weak, compared with a Ford or Vauxhall. Things will never change.