Rip off? I don't think so ........

[Rocket88]

I have an interest in a small garage. Usual thing, servicing and repairs, mostly to VAG stuff. Bloke comes in with what used to be a pristine Mercedes 190e. Bought it 5 years ago, never had it serviced. Wants it checked over, and service done. We follow instructions, and change all the fluids [including brake fluid] filters and plugs [which took an hour to get out!] Bill was £388, including a long list of advisories [front prop bearing is on the point of disintegration]

He's now moaning about the price. Anything that comes through our doors is serviced as per that model's check list, and involves removing all of the wheels, thorough check underneath as well as lights, seat belts etc.

As a gargage, if we'd given him back his fetsering Merc without mentioning issues like the prop bearing, and it had let go [he's decided not to bother getting it fixed] I'm pretty sure we'd be liable.

Do you think our approach is reasonable?

[Lord Sterling]

-

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

£388 does sound like a lot of money for a service, even a big one. I would expect to pay around £200-220 (including parts) for that, but then I am a tight bastard, supply bits sourced cheaply from Ebay or Unipart and always try to get a rough estimate of pricing for labour...and I don't live in the South (don't know what Jersey is like for prices, but I can't imagine it being very cheap)! Checks really are part of the service and the ones that aren't usually get done very cheaply if not free (as the garage would be in a privileged position with regards to getting the business if any additional work is required).

 

How long is the book time for the most major service??

[Rocket88]

£388 does sound like a lot of money for a service, even a big one. I would expect to pay around £200-220 (including parts) for that, but then I am a tight bastard, supply bits sourced cheaply from Ebay or Unipart and always try to get a rough estimate of pricing for labour...and I don't live in the South! Checks really are part of the service and the ones that aren't usually get done very cheaply if not free (as the garage would be in a privileged position with regards to getting the business if any additional work is required).

 

How long is the book time for the most major service??

 

Book times mean sod all when dealing with something like this. Hasn't seen a spanner for 5 years, 3 of the 4 plugs were seized in, the sump nut nearly stripped it's thread. We charge exactly half main dealer hourly rates.......[Jersey for you !]

[trigger]

If he had serviced it every year he would have spend more then £388 i would have expected, I would have just explained that although it was expensive think off all the money you haven't had to spend on it before now, £388 in 5 years is a bargain, Christ my Mondeo cost £300 on just having a pulley done in less then 6 months ownership at the time.

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

I know what you mean, but think about it. If he had taken it to the stealership, there is a very decent chance that they'd still only charge him book time! As I said, I am not familiar with Jersey prices, but it's a difficult situation for both parties. It's fair for you to want to charge for the time you actually spent on it, but it's also reasonable for him to expect to pay something resembling the price of an ordinary major service.

 

I guess if there was an error somewhere, it was made by the garage in not ringing the customer to tell him something along the lines of "this is all buggered up and needs us to spend a fair bit of extra time to get it back into shape, it'll end up costing you an extra hundred or so".

[Rocket88]

I know what you mean, but think about it. If he had taken it to the stealership, there is a very decent chance that they'd still only charge him book time! As I said, I am not familiar with Jersey prices, but it's a difficult situation for both parties. It's fair for you to want to charge for the time you actually spent on it, but it's also reasonable for him to expect to pay something resembling the price of an ordinary major service.

 

I guess if there was an error somewhere, it was made by the garage in not ringing the customer to tell him something along the lines of "this is all buggered up and needs us to spend a fair bit of extra time to get it back into shape, it'll end up costing you an extra hundred or so".

 

Merecedes dealer over here is about £125 per hour. They would have charged him the time it took to do the job. "Book times" are pretty much irrelavent when it comes to a car that's not been serviced for 5 years!

[mnde]

I was going to say.. what does he expect having not serviced it for 5 years.

 

I've just paid £332 for my GSA's MOT work. New driveshaft inner gaiter, broken wire in rear light unit sorted, also happened to need a new battery and the positive lead clamp was knackered, so a new cable.

 

£110 labour + £19 for the gaiter (includes removing the driveshaft)

£23.50 labour on the wiring fix

£15 for the battery cable

+20% VAT

£72 all in for the battery + fitting

£55 for the MOT test.

 

And that's with no other servicing...

 

Mark.

[whitevanman]

Jeez...I charge way to little then £15 +vat for a battery lead? I'd be embarrassed to charge that

[Guest]

£338 is not out of the way for an in-depth service.

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

Jeez...I charge way to little then £15 +vat for a battery lead? I'd be embarrassed to charge that

 

£72 for a battery for a GSA? What's that? 320CCA? Jesus wept! You could get it for about half that... (e.g. http://www.batterymegastore.co.uk/produ ... uasa-rpt-/ ), and I can't imagine fitting being much complicated (or maybe I can- being a 1970s Citroen design, it wouldn't surprise me if it were situated between the gearbox and the engine and a battery change involves removal of either).

[Pete-M]

If labour costs £60 an hour then five hours is £300. WTF does this guy expect?

 

All the cars I own have had numerous £1000+ repair bills over the years. BMW has had four or five £1000+ bills, so have the Jag and Jeep. It's what happens when you pay to get a car fixed. Average service bill for the e39 is about £500, same for the other two.

 

If I do them myself the cost is vastly reduced as there's no labour charge but to do the job properly I reckon they each cost £60-100 in consumables each time. To do a transmission service on the Jeep (without doing the gearbox filter) is £70 in fluids alone as it used a special diff fluid additive.

 

Think about it. Plugs are £2-3 quid each, oil filter £5-10, air filter £10, brake fluid £5, coolant £10, screenwash £5, wiper blades £5, pollen filter £10, sump plug washer, fuel system cleaner £10. White grease for locks and hinges, and then there's the bits that need replacing. Brake pads, fan belts etc.

 

On top of all that you need diagnostic stuff to do the job properly on modern stuff. For a garage that's a couple of grand for a decent machine and £40 a month for updates.

 

£380 to service a Mercedes that's been used for short runs for five years doesn't sound too bad. Especially as a 'normal' service is going to be £100+ a year even for a boggo Fiesta if it's done correctly.

[Mr_Bo11ox]

Tell him to ram it, this is why I hate doing jobs for folk and why I take my hat off to the majority of independent garages. You just know if you don’t check everything minutely, if any little tiny problem occurs in the next 6 months he’s going to be banging on the door asking ‘why didn’t you pick this up at the service’. If the car is horribly neglected you have an obligation to check it all carefully, so more power to you. Fook him off and if you see him coming back in future for more work tell him you’re booked up for the next 18 years.

[meggersdog]

Even the newest 190e is going to be 18 years old now,considering you are surrounded by salty sea air I thing he's done very well not having the car looked at in five years.If he lived on the mainland he would have had to stump up for an MOT every year so tell him to stop moaning and like Bol says if he comes back you're busy.

[boobydoo]

Jesus, what do these people expect?

£388 is perfectly reasonable for this type of service. Spread over 5 years this equates to £77 a year maintenance.

I despair of tight wads like this bloke.

[RobT]

Lazy bugger should just ride a bike if he's too tight to spend out on servicing a Merc. My only comment would be to spot he was going to be trouble and to have kept him well informed that it'd cost more than the £4 he was probably expecting. Easier said than done though if you're mechanic/garage receptionist all rolled into one.

 

Generalisation time, but if he lives in Jersey he can't be short of a bob or two either.

[DSdriver]

I think the customer needs a reality check, he is probably thinking in 2006 prices. Is he a Jersey multi-millionaire, lives in a huge house but in one room with newspapers stuck over the windows?

[ProgRocker]

If he had serviced it every year he would have spend more then £388 i would have expected, I would have just explained that although it was expensive think off all the money you haven't had to spend on it before now, £388 in 5 years is a bargain

 

This. £388 might be a lot to stump up in one ago but if that amount is spread over 5 years, it seems reasonable to me.

[Skizzer]

Jesus, what do these people expect?

£388 is perfectly reasonable for this type of service. Spread over 5 years this equates to £77 a year maintenance.

I despair of tight wads like this bloke.

+1

[Felly Magic]

Christ I bet the oil was like sludge. Tight fisted git is lucky the car didn't give up on him.

[garethj]

What Mr_Bo11ox said - I'd hate to run a garage that deals with old cars.

 

The only thing in the miserable Merc owner's favour is that maybe you didn't meet his expectations. If he was expecting a bill for £100 then gets one for almost four times that, he'll be pissed off. I'm not saying he's doing himself any favours and I'm pretty sure he didn't hand you the keys saying "phone me for authorisation once it gets over forty quid" but the only way he can be upset with the price is if it wasn't what he expected.

 

And bearing in mind he hasn't had his car serviced in five years, he's probably a bit out of touch

[whitevanman]

£338 is a fair price by the way...it was mdne bill I was shocked at.

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

What Mr_Bo11ox said - I'd hate to run a garage that deals with old cars.

 

The only thing in the miserable Merc owner's favour is that maybe you didn't meet his expectations. If he was expecting a bill for £100 then gets one for almost four times that, he'll be pissed off. I'm not saying he's doing himself any favours and I'm pretty sure he didn't hand you the keys saying "phone me for authorisation once it gets over forty quid" but the only way he can be upset with the price is if it wasn't what he expected.

 

And bearing in mind he hasn't had his car serviced in five years, he's probably a bit out of touch

 

+1. That's what I have been trying to say. The mechanic's the expert and you can't expect an infrequent customer to be up-to-date with the market. If I visit a solicitor (although my usual one is Mr Pro Se), they'll normally tell me (of their own accord) "we charge £300 an hour and we expect your case to need about 4 hours for preparation, plus another hour at court. Budget around £1500+VAT, although it could end up being more if complications arise". While I am confident that members of lawshite.com will be familiar with prices and times applicable to particular types of legal work, I also think that the average person would have no idea about such costs and probably be inclined to respond along the lines of "U KIDIN M8? WAT A RAKIT- N WE WROK AT ASDA 4 7.42 A HOUR". Without a quote, a reasonable price (and I think we all agree here that the charges were reasonable) can leave someone with a feeling that they've been ripped off.

[TimothyClaypole]

Not having it serviced for 5 years = tight bastard.

 

Nevermind being an idiot for not wanting the bearing fixing...

[myglaren]

Daft sod should have asked in advance what the charge was likely to be and to be informed of any unexpected expenses.

Serves him right for being a tightwad/idiot.

[Felly Magic]

He actually sounds like the sort of bloke who should no longer be allowed on the road!

[maxpower]

ring up merc dealer/garage ask for a quote from them for all the work you did then hand that to the guy..... i am quite sure he would gladly stump up the amount your'e asking when he sees how much they would have stung him for

[Wilko220]

Your prices sound more reasonable than my local independent garage.

[AeroNautiCal]

I have an interest in a small garage. Usual thing, servicing and repairs, mostly to VAG stuff. Bloke comes in with what used to be a pristine Mercedes 190e. Bought it 5 years ago, never had it serviced. Wants it checked over, and service done. We follow instructions, and change all the fluids [including brake fluid] filters and plugs [which took an hour to get out!] Bill was £388, including a long list of advisories [front prop bearing is on the point of disintegration]

He's now moaning about the price. Anything that comes through our doors is serviced as per that model's check list, and involves removing all of the wheels, thorough check underneath as well as lights, seat belts etc.

As a gargage, if we'd given him back his fetsering Merc without mentioning issues like the prop bearing, and it had let go [he's decided not to bother getting it fixed] I'm pretty sure we'd be liable.

Do you think our approach is reasonable?

 

I think your approach is entirely professional and extremely reasonable!

 

He needs to recognize and respect that the price reflects the condition of the vehicle and the work required to thoroughly and professionally carry out his instructions, and the actual amount of time (and hence cost) this work takes.

 

He should consider himself lucky that he found a garage that works to high standards.

 

People like this guy remind me that I don't miss running a workshop as much as I thought I might!

[garethj]

All fair points, but to break into Management Crap for a while, jobs these days are all about "managing expectations"

 

A plumber calls to fit your kitchen. You want it done by the weekend, he knows he won't be able to get the parts until the following week at best. Is his job about soldering pipes, no it's managing expectations.

 

I don't know if it's because lots of people are completely clueless these days (the warning on coffee cups that these contents might be hot) but explaining the deeply fucking obvious needs doing a lot