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Conveniently I was basically stuck sitting at the table downstairs today as we had contractors on site.  This meant I needed to be on hand to answer questions and wrangle the dogs on a pretty frequent basis...so spent far too long cleaning up the keypad on the Wayfarer.

This took for-bloody-ever.

Well, this bit wasn't too bad.

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However cleaning up the little clear pieces with the legends on for the buttons took hours.

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All back together.  Looks much better I think.

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Looking close up compared to the photo above the difference is clear.

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Not perfect, but I'd rather have something that looks realistic than new out the box.  The squint 3 and 8 came like that.

Now just need to get it up and actually running with a driver module.

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McGills, which some may know used to be a small independent bus company from Barrhead are fast becoming the incumbent in Central Scotland.

They have now bought over First Scotland East which comprises the one-time Midland Bluebird and what is left of SMT Lothians (Lothian Buses bought most of the Edinburgh routes which became Lothian Country).

They have proposed to bring back the traditional liveries which will be a welcome splash to the dreary Falkirk area which has had to put up with a sterile grey, blue and pink since 1997.

FB_IMG_1663308724027.jpg.13306bcbb01fbd186026a07ee35b2b46.jpg

 

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5 hours ago, Back_For_More said:

Jt rolled past here in Farringdon 

The wedding special..... Beautifully restored

 

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Ooh, that's a special bus. Fitted with an experimental Daf engine in about 1990 ish, might have been even earlier and still as far as I know has it. It sounds awesome but unfortunately the powers that be went with Cummins and Iveco engines instead so it stayed unique. I haven't seen this since the last day of the 159s in December 2015. Good to see it still going. 

 

Edit: Daf engine fitted in 1988 in fact so it has now had it longer than the AEC it was built with. That makes me feel old. 

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I thought McGills would have had at least a few buses painted up in the new livery to launch the service. Instead we have the same tired buses with the 'First' logos removed. As these were followed by 'Midland' the latter wording is now offset, making the bus look even worse. It's true that big bus companies couldn't give a flying fuck about less populated areas. As always, my area is a graveyard for the companies vehicles.

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1 hour ago, Split_Pin said:

It's true that big bus companies couldn't give a flying fuck about less populated areas.

Sheil Buses up along the west coast of Mcscotland have the smartest, best kept fleet of any bus operator I've seen and that's not exactly a densely populated region!

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On 9/16/2022 at 6:21 PM, Yoss said:

Ooh, that's a special bus. Fitted with an experimental Daf engine in about 1990 ish, might have been even earlier and still as far as I know has it. It sounds awesome but unfortunately the powers that be went with Cummins and Iveco engines instead so it stayed unique. I haven't seen this since the last day of the 159s in December 2015. Good to see it still going. 

 

Edit: Daf engine fitted in 1988 in fact so it has now had it longer than the AEC it was built with. That makes me feel old. 

Someone will know far more about this than me but Mainline in Sheffield reengineered a lot of the Routemasters with Iveco engines? 

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12 hours ago, sierraman said:

Someone will know far more about this than me but Mainline in Sheffield reengineered a lot of the Routemasters with Iveco engines? 

If I remember correctly, during the Routemaster refurbs in the early 90s they settled on three engines, one of which was the Iveco 8361. The others were the Cummins C-Series and later on the Scania D9 made an appearance. Apparently the Scania ones are quite sprightly...

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Can't remember the exact details, I used to know these things but it was a long a time ago. But I know some of the refurbs were carried out in Sheffield. Not just the engines, the whole refurbs, inside and out. Routemasters were quite a common sight on the M1 for a few years. 

Yes, the Scanias were a later addition a few years after the RML refurb program so these were fitted mainly to RMs in their later years before the dreadful 'Dartmasters' appeared, but I think a few RMLs were fitted too, and were indeed the pick of the bunch. 

Previous to the RML refurb program four RMs were fitted with different engines for assessment:

RM 545 - Daf

RM 1128 - Ashok

RM 1894 - Iveco 

RM 2033 - Cummins 

The Daf was some sort of iteration of the Leyland TL11 I think but was badged a Daf as it was after the takeover (I think it was technically a merger but with Daf very much the senior partner) and the Ashok was an Indian built Leyland O680 and both were very loud and sounded like proper engines. 

Instead they went with the wrong two. London could have sounded so different had they made the right decision. To be fair there was nothing really wrong with the Cummins, it was just a bit boring but I realise this wasn't being done for the enthusiasts.

But the Iveco? Everyone despaired at that, it's not just @Cavcraft trying to give them a bad reputation. They were smaller than the others and so overstressed and I seem to remember they were mounted back to front so most of the ancillaries were on the wrong side so they were squeezed in on the offside right next to the cab bulkhead. The engine had to come out for some quite simple jobs. The original designers would be pulling their hair out as Routemasters were specifically designed with ease of maintenance a priority. 

 

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Until Daf launched the clean sheet design MX engines in the mid noughties, their bigger engines were redeveloped Leyland ones they'd been revising since the 70s. Probably didn't bear much relation to the original by the end, but they'd coaxed a reliable 430bhp out of it (albeit it wasn't the torquiest).

There's been some absolute shit in service here, cascaded down from elsewhere and pretty much held together with cable ties and prayers. Cheers Stagecoach. A while back, I ran for the bus as it was leaving: I thought the driver had stopped for me; nope, the shitty old Optare Solo had lunched its diff! I'd have laughed, but it meant a long wait for the next one...

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2 hours ago, rml2345 said:

If I remember correctly, during the Routemaster refurbs in the early 90s they settled on three engines, one of which was the Iveco 8361. The others were the Cummins C-Series and later on the Scania D9 made an appearance. Apparently the Scania ones are quite sprightly...

 

2 hours ago, Yoss said:

Can't remember the exact details, I used to know these things but it was a long a time ago. But I know some of the refurbs were carried out in Sheffield. Not just the engines, the whole refurbs, inside and out. Routemasters were quite a common sight on the M1 for a few years. 

Yes, the Scanias were a later addition a few years after the RML refurb program so these were fitted mainly to RMs in their later years before the dreadful 'Dartmasters' appeared, but I think a few RMLs were fitted too, and were indeed the pick of the bunch. 

Previous to the RML refurb program four RMs were fitted with different engines for assessment:

RM 545 - Daf

RM 1128 - Ashok

RM 1894 - Iveco 

RM 2033 - Cummins 

The Daf was some sort of iteration of the Leyland TL11 I think but was badged a Daf as it was after the takeover (I think it was technically a merger but with Daf very much the senior partner) and the Ashok was an Indian built Leyland O680 and both were very loud and sounded like proper engines. 

Instead they went with the wrong two. London could have sounded so different had they made the right decision. To be fair there was nothing really wrong with the Cummins, it was just a bit boring but I realise this wasn't being done for the enthusiasts.

But the Iveco? Everyone despaired at that, it's not just @Cavcraft trying to give them a bad reputation. They were smaller than the others and so overstressed and I seem to remember they were mounted back to front so most of the ancillaries were on the wrong side so they were squeezed in on the offside right next to the cab bulkhead. The engine had to come out for some quite simple jobs. The original designers would be pulling their hair out as Routemasters were specifically designed with ease of maintenance a priority. 

 

 

its really awesome to get some exacting details!

always frustrated me that everywhere I read it just mentioned "they where fitted with such and such engine"

never mentioning exactly what type! so its quite nifty to get a type number at long last!

 

I wonder with all these re-engined/refurbished  RM's and RML's  was any attention paid to the diff, or did keep whichever diff they went in with?

I know the Country RML's had Medium speed diff's and some of these found their ways into standard RM's as well, so combined with say a powerful Scania engine, that must of been quite fun!

 wonder what the fastest someones gotten out of an RM?  :) (and of course RMA's and I think RCL's? had even higher speed diffs for 70Mph running, but Im not sure if I have heard of one of those making its way to a standard RML/RM)

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Although thinking about it the T in TL11 is for Turbo so it would have been an L11 if that is a thing. The 11 being for 11 litres I assume so maybe just a highly developed O680. This is all guesswork, I don't know enough about them any more. 

All the refurbs had standard diffs so top speed wouldn't be much higher than an old AEC or Leyland. Maybe 50mph if they revved a bit higher. All these engines up to the Dartmaster used the original fluid flywheel and semi auto gearbox and all was fine.

The problems came with the Dartmaster because they replaced the original transmission with a standard auto box that came on the Darts, hence the name. The gear shifts on these were so harsh they kept breaking half shafts. I've said before Dartmasters don't even move like Routemasters. Horrible things. 

Incidentally the fastest I have been in an RM is about 65mph in RCL 2239. I say about as the speedo only goes up to 60 but the needle kept going. That was a standard RCL. RMC 1476 allegedly had a 12 litre AEC from some sort of lorry and a high speed diff and would do 73 but that's hear say, I have no direct knowledge. 

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1 hour ago, LightBulbFun said:

wonder what the fastest someones gotten out of an RM?  :) (and of course RMA's and I think RCL's? had even higher speed diffs for 70Mph running, but Im not sure if I have heard of one of those making its way to a standard RML/RM)

RCL2260 was my wedding car and the driver got it up to just over 70. I was sitting with a clear view of the tachograph head (old paper disc type)

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29 minutes ago, busmansholiday said:

The Routemaster refurbishment was done at Mainlines Rotherham depot (Midland Road), some of the painting was subbed out locally in Rotherham.

Thanks, I was waiting for your response. I thought you'd know something about them. 

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https://www.facebook.com/londonerbuses/posts/pfbid0pYuQQT3EReAwhSAUB5G9Gn8Jq5toJVBZCThvdEGhXV2s2Eb56dnvQWCdpBowNz4Wl

this is quite interesting/exciting to hear! always pleases to me to hear more Routemasters running about :) 

have to admit I dont like the lettered Route scheme at all, this is London not Reading! 

sounds like its a private venture rather then something that was part of TFL like Route 9 and 15 where, so it will be interesting to see how it does/how long it lasts!

at least I think one of the RM's being used on it is AEC engined :) 

 

I also wonder how ticketing works, it seems like its about £5 for an all day thing, do they print off a ticket for you to keep ahold of for the rest of the day and just wave at the conductor when you want to hop back on?

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On 9/26/2022 at 2:30 PM, LightBulbFun said:

https://www.facebook.com/londonerbuses/posts/pfbid0pYuQQT3EReAwhSAUB5G9Gn8Jq5toJVBZCThvdEGhXV2s2Eb56dnvQWCdpBowNz4Wl

this is quite interesting/exciting to hear! always pleases to me to hear more Routemasters running about :) 

have to admit I dont like the lettered Route scheme at all, this is London not Reading! 

sounds like its a private venture rather then something that was part of TFL like Route 9 and 15 where, so it will be interesting to see how it does/how long it lasts!

at least I think one of the RM's being used on it is AEC engined :) 

 

I also wonder how ticketing works, it seems like its about £5 for an all day thing, do they print off a ticket for you to keep ahold of for the rest of the day and just wave at the conductor when you want to hop back on?

I was sent a link for this a couple of weeks ago but it had very little actual detail in it. This has a little more and it will be good to see any RMs back in London but it appears to be a very short route. Like the shortest route I've ever seen. I mean the intermediate blind says Westminster and Big Ben which are the same place (some pedant might say they aren't, but essentially they are). 

But still, I wish them well, it is something of a miracle to get any commercial route approved inside the TfL area. 

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Time for more B&W pics from the past, around 1970/1 I believe. We'll stick in the north Derbyshire / South Yorkshire area but look at Booth and Fisher, an operator swallowed up by South Yorkshire PTE in 1975 but which operated both local services and excursions from it's depot in Halfway (now the depot of Trent / Barton's TM Travel).

B&F were massive AEC operators in later years, most bought new, but did have other makes so we'll start there.

CEX491 was one of 5 Albion Nimbuses (nimbi ?) with Willowbrook bodywork that were new to Great Yarmouth Corporation. B&F also purchased three other Nimbi from Welsh Operators.

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Another oddity was 9575F, one of a a pair of Bristol SC4LK with ECW bodywork which had been new to Eastern National in 1958

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Surprising purchases were a pair of dual purpose Willowbrook bodied Ford R192s in 1970. DWA402H is seen here on hire to Sheffield United Tours , they lasted only 4 years.

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Apart from these, almost all B&Fs single deckers were AEC Reliances with various bodyworks, but they had a pair of very rare (again bought new) Park Royal bodied Monocoaches (basically a semi integral Reliance), here's WRA 12 which is now preserved.

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Alongside it is 518GRA, a Roe bodied Reliance new in 1958.

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Another Roe bodied example was 843URB new in 1961 but following sever accident damage it received this dual door Marshall body. It's seen here on Arundel Gate in Sheffield on it's regular haunt.

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Also Roe bodied, but purchased second hand from Donny Corporation in 1970 when just 9 year old was 8630DT. Nice bit of history in the background (that's a pit for our younger readers).

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Also purchased second hand was TCY662, a Marshall bodied Reliance new to South Wales in 1960. I was involved in her scrapping and several mechanical components were swapped onto 1322WA, my Plaxton bodied Reliance now owned by the South Yorkshire Transport Museum.

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Finally the newer stuff,

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Those were the days.

 

 

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Been volunteering here for a while.
https://www.ctpg.co.uk/
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Currently working on this Guy Arab. It's been converted back from a camper and all the wiring ripped out and partially replaced-all dash board cables ripped out, main loom cut in the middle and nothing to the back. The guy who ripped out and partially replaced the wiring has long left-it's taken me and my butty Rich quite a while to work out what goes where. Dash needs complete rewiring. We've more or less sorted the interior lights, bell etc. We've also now got the side and head lights temporarily working from the dashboard. All the exterior wiring you can see will be placed in a waterproof connector box under the front apron-it's connected to a choco block for ease of testing. Next is to connect main feeds up and ensure all the so we don't have to cart the battery about. There are a couple of feeds from the regulator-one to the front for the dash, and all lights, one to the speedo sensor and one to the board with many wires dangling out for the interior lights etc. Then its fix the loom, run a wire from the starter solenoid to the front and from the stop solenoid. Getting there now we know whats missing and what goes where.
 

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