busmansholiday Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 So, 50 years ago on the 12th March, 1972 (tomorrow), the first pre-production Leyland Nasty was handed over to the National Bus Company's Cumberland Motor Services. Others of the first 10 went to London Country and Sunderland and District (which managed a years service before being scrapped due to its' reliability). The one that did the best was the final pre-production example, demonstrator FRM499K. So to mark the occasion here's a few pictures, don't excite yourselves, I didn't spend any time looking for pictures of the early ones (I know I've shots of these in Plymouth {first municipal to buy them}, and with Crosville , LCBS (SuperBus) etc, but quite frankly CBA to dig them out and scan them. These were already on the computer. So here's an arse end view of FRM when on loan to Sheffield in April 1973, note the chod and the Corporations' yellow and black bus stop. The corporation ordered four, which was odd as only a couple of years earlier they had put the entire batch of 22 Park Royal bodied AEC Swifts up for sale, receiving offers for just four of them. The four Nationals were the first new buses delivered to South Yorkshire PTE. This is the first production one, in later life with Stagecoach in Stockport (not bad for a mobile phone picture of a colour slide held up to the window (told you I'd not wasted any time on these)). Finally another of the demonstrators, after being purchased by South Yorkshire PTE. I'll let @Inspector Morosedo the honours on its early history. It was one of a number purchased by Isle of Man Road Services from SYPTE, it made it to Liverpool where it was broken on the docks for parts. Inspector Morose, Leyland Worldmaster, wesacosa and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
808 Estate Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 That Merc is properly lush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
808 Estate Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 Eyersey1234, Remspoor and busmansholiday 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martc Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 Talking of Nationals, here's a sneaky peak... Leyland Worldmaster, Dick Longbridge, rml2345 and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martc Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 Yesterday was the 90th anniversary of Victoria Coach Station, the striking Grade II Listed Art Deco building opened in 1932. willswitchengage, Remspoor, Dick Longbridge and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busmansholiday Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 1 hour ago, 808 Estate said: I could name a few operators where that would have been a good vehicle. Eyersey1234 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leyland Worldmaster Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 2 hours ago, martc said: Talking of Nationals, here's a sneaky peak... Southdown by the looks of it! 🧐🤓 martc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remspoor Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 On 3/11/2022 at 1:58 PM, busmansholiday said: So, 50 years ago on the 12th March, 1972 (tomorrow), the first pre-production Leyland Nasty was handed over to the National Bus Company's Cumberland Motor Services. Others of the first 10 went to London Country and Sunderland and District (which managed a years service before being scrapped due to its' reliability). I have been clearing the attic out for weeks before Christmas. Found a load of things that I though were lost and discovered that some things are now missing. One of those things are negatives of photos i took from the age of 5 until i left school. In those negatives were some of Nationals in the first days of working on the (green Line) route between Aldgate and Brentwood. Images taken on Ilford High road. I think they were on a Sunday because less peds and traffic make for better images. I am a bit angry about this and also confused as to why they have disappeared. Any how do you know if Green Line started operating nationals at the same time as London County? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cms206 Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 Three weeks off sick but back at work on Monday past; a "phased return" meant a mere 60 hours worked (not driven!) in five days so far, with tonight being day six; off tomorrow then back in a 15 hour day on Monday. This was yesterday, with my daily featuring on Simon & Garfunkel's lesser known follow up to Sound of Silence. Remspoor and Dave_Q 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Longbridge Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 20 hours ago, 808 Estate said: I'm trying to work out what's going on there. Air suspension lost the plot? Square wheels? I would suggest CGI but I reckon it's worryingly real... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyersey1234 Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 18 hours ago, busmansholiday said: I could name a few operators where that would have been a good vehicle. So could I 😂😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busmansholiday Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 6 hours ago, Remspoor said: Any how do you know if Green Line started operating nationals at the same time as London County? Off the web The National was British Leyland's future-bus for Britain and the world. Whereas bus companies had traditionally selected a chassis of their choice and then had it bodied by their choice of body-builder, incorporating all their local prejudices and special requirements into the design, the National was to be a proper mass-production bus, incorporating the best of design practice to produce a bus that could go anywhere and do anything. In practice, of course, it didn't turn out like that, in that the standard National could NOT go everywhere, mainly due to its overhangs and turning circle, and was outwith the regulations in several target export countries. But back to London. London Country, a loyal National Bus Company subsidiary by now, was early in the queue for Leyland Nationals. The first were standard, off-the-peg dual-door 11.3m (37ft) buses. What was perhaps unusual was the livery of the first few: bright yellow and blue for the Stevenage Superbus network. LN1 (National #000003) arrived at Reigate in mid-April 1972, painted overall yellow. (British Leyland would only paint buses one colour!). It wasn't quite up to scratch, and had to be returned to Workington for rectification. Back at Reigate it received its blue window surrounds and Superbus logos. The first two started work at Stevenage (SV) in September 1972, with K-registrations, followed by two more with L-reg plates and Superbus livery in December. They joined Swifts (SM) and Metro Scanias (MS) on routes SB1 and SB2. Route No Route Garage SB1 Stevenage (Gunnels Wood Rd) - Bus Stn - Chells SV Stevenage SB2 Stevenage Bus Stn - St Nicholas SV Stevenage Further buses followed, now in the mandatory overall NBC leaf green (NBC management had declared that local tradition and initiative was a BAD THING, and that all National Bus Company buses had to be in poppy red or leaf green (or maybe navy blue) within two years- so there!) Happy garages receiving the new buses included Hatfield (HF) for Hatfield & Welwyn G.C. town routes, and Dunton Green (DG) (for the 402, 431 and 493). LN8-11 were delivered on loan to Nottingham City Transport, but LNB8, 10 and 11 were subsequently sent to Hants & Dorset in exchange for three Metro-Scanias, leaving just LN9 to return to service with London Country. LNC (LNB) 24-70 By now British Leyland were starting to soften their original hard stance, as bus companies around the country voiced their objections at having to buy dual-door city buses for inter-urban routes. A single-door version was to be allowed as well. London Country jumped at the opportunity to buy something to replace the remaining RFs, Reliances, Routemasters and Swifts on GreenLine duties. The RFs were old, the Reliances and Swifts unreliable, and the Routemasters (with two crew) expensive. So despite the Nationals having just the bog-standard bus seating, 47 were purchased.The buses were painted in the dual-purpose livery of green and white. Customers could tell from the outside that these were Green Line services by the fleetname on the front and the traditional yellow blinds. Not much else was of GreenLine quality, with pvc-covered bus seats and no luggage racks. The first, LNC 23, was delivered before the end of 1972, and there were enough by March 73 to give the passengers on the 721 a nasty shock. Their Reliance RPs, with coach seats etc, were shuffled elsewhere, and the Brentwood run was back to utility style. Other routes received the brutality treatment, and RFs were retired in droves. LNCs went to Tring and Chelsham for the 706, and High Wycombe and Reigate for the 711. Route No Route Garage 721 Brentwood - Romford - London (Aldgate) RE Romford 706 Aylesbury - London - Westerham TG Tring CM Chelsham 711 High Wycombe - London - Reigate RG Reigate HE High Wycombe But perhaps someone listened to the voices of complaint and rather better (short) Leyland Nationals with coach seats were to be acquired. The LNCs were gradually replaced by the better SNCs with coach seats, as they became available, and were declassified to bus status as LNBs. Numbers and fleetnames were changed, although most retained their green and white dual purpose livery until 1980 or later. London Country standardised on the shorter Nationals, overall building up the largest total fleet of Nationals in the UK, with a total of 543. The 70 long versions fell from favour, and by 1980 all the dual door LN variety were in store, or sold to other NBC operators, with LN7 taken into the service fleet as an information and sales bus. The LNBs continued their punishing work around the edges of the London Area, before eventual retirement or further service with other companies. Several went to People's Provincial in Hampshire, and another group went to East Kent before moving on to Stenalink. There they provided the first taste of English public transport for those distinctly second-class Remspoor 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remspoor Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 Intro of Nationals to the GL route was not long after LCs introduction. Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyberg Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 Work just taken delivery of a new Irizar i4 for school work. 13.6 metres on a triaxle, with 80 comfortable* seats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catsinthewelder Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 Don't think I've seen 2+3 seating on a bus before. It's pretty shit on a train so I wouldn't fancy going far on that. Remspoor and Eyersey1234 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyersey1234 Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 58 minutes ago, catsinthewelder said: Don't think I've seen 2+3 seating on a bus before. It's pretty shit on a train so I wouldn't fancy going far on that. Some buses have 3+2 seating, mostly vehicles used as school buses. catsinthewelder 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leyland Worldmaster Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 1 hour ago, andyberg said: Work just taken delivery of a new Irizar i4 for school work. 13.6 metres on a triaxle, with 80 comfortable* seats How to put people off Public Transport from the very beginning! I recall a lively discussion when I was at school; two pupils to one seat was planned to save money on school trips! This was swiftly overturned by a group of parents and some strong letters... This would have been the early to mid-nineties... 😱 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard_FM Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 8 hours ago, Leyland Worldmaster said: How to put people off Public Transport from the very beginning! I recall a lively discussion when I was at school; two pupils to one seat was planned to save money on school trips! This was swiftly overturned by a group of parents and some strong letters... This would have been the early to mid-nineties... 😱 I imagine it was before the M40 minibus crash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leyland Worldmaster Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 3 hours ago, Richard_FM said: I imagine it was before the M40 minibus crash. No, I think that was 1990-91; this was definitely after that; it was one of the examples of what could go wrong that was mentioned from memory. The vehicles in question would have been AS approved though. Six wheel Talbot thingies! 🤦♂️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DLR Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 14 hours ago, andyberg said: Work just taken delivery of a new Irizar i4 for school work. 13.6 metres on a triaxle, with 80 comfortable* seats I have to say, I think the facelifted front on that looks rather good! Back when I was working Full Time as a Coach Driver, my allocated vehicle for a time was an Irizar i4 (Scania) that had 59 seats. I don't have any interior pictures to hand, but even with 59 seats it was rather snug! I wouldn't fancy one with the 3+2 configuration. Because they're quite low there's not much in the way of luggage space, so whenever I'd be on a Heathrow or a Gatwick for the international summer school it'd be a challenge to fit the suitcases in. Luckily I'm only 5 foot tall so climbing to the back of the lockers to fill all the gaps isn't an issue, plus I'm rather good at Tetris! Luggage for 59 was enough, 80 must be a squeeze! In the end I spent so little time in it because I was driving everything else in the fleet. Then I went Part Time, then they went under. Would there be any interest in sharing some of the photos? My time at Alexcars was the best chapter of my life so far and I've loads of snaps, although most of it modern there are some oddballs (Beulas and Indcar spring to mind). I've done a bit of work for other operators in and around Bristol and Bath that I could share too? Although there's only one job I truly miss. Working at Alexcars was like being part of the family. First photo at Beaconsfield Services, second at the coach park in Swanage with a coach from Mervyn's (a very good friend of mine). Saabnut, busmansholiday, jon.k and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyberg Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 3 hours ago, DLR said: I have to say, I think the facelifted front on that looks rather good! Back when I was working Full Time as a Coach Driver, my allocated vehicle for a time was an Irizar i4 (Scania) that had 59 seats. I don't have any interior pictures to hand, but even with 59 seats it was rather snug! I wouldn't fancy one with the 3+2 configuration. Because they're quite low there's not much in the way of luggage space, so whenever I'd be on a Heathrow or a Gatwick for the international summer school it'd be a challenge to fit the suitcases in. Luckily I'm only 5 foot tall so climbing to the back of the lockers to fill all the gaps isn't an issue, plus I'm rather good at Tetris! Luggage for 59 was enough, 80 must be a squeeze! Our one is also PSVAR so it has a wheelchair lift. That reduces the luggage capacity by half! So there is no way you could get luggage for 80 in the single rear locker. I haven't driven it yet, and I don't really want to. I much prefer my i6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyersey1234 Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 2 hours ago, andyberg said: Our one is also PSVAR so it has a wheelchair lift. That reduces the luggage capacity by half! So there is no way you could get luggage for 80 in the single rear locker. I haven't driven it yet, and I don't really want to. I much prefer my i6. How does it reduce the luggage capacity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busmansholiday Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 5 hours ago, DLR said: Would there be any interest in sharing some of the photos? There certainly would. DLR 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyberg Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 59 minutes ago, Eyersey1234 said: How does it reduce the luggage capacity? The lift and mechanism sits inside part of the locker. We have 4 PSVAR coaches and I think the lifts have been used once or twice in 2 years. Eyersey1234 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cms206 Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 Never been a fan of 3+2 seaters, they're inheritly dangerous in an accident or fire as there is such a reduced margin to get everyone off. We've got umpteen including the only 12.7-metre, two axle Bova Futura in Scotland licensed as a 77-seater. It's extraordinarily unpleasant, most of ours are 72s or 75s. We've also just sent the eldest of our VDL Futura 2s off for 3+2 conversion, a 62-plate new as a demo. Not sure how many seats it'll come back with yet. catsinthewelder and lesapandre 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cms206 Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 Also a spot from yesterday, a lesser spotted Yutong belonging to Scottish Power. Eyersey1234, willswitchengage, rml2345 and 2 others 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoverFolkUs Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 I dont know much about buses but I'm sure a few people here will be able to identify what this one is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busmansholiday Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 1 hour ago, RoverFolkUs said: I dont know much about buses but I'm sure a few people here will be able to identify what this one is! I just get a black square Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leyland Worldmaster Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 A bus with a cloaking device? 🤔 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liggle Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 8 hours ago, cms206 said: Also a spot from yesterday, a lesser spotted Yutong belonging to Scottish Power. Our park and rides in Leicester are all Yutong E12's now, very smooth and nippy although not as quiet as I was expecting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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