Bus Shite

[cms206]

2 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

this comment especially is one I often think about  

in that I have looked at other pictures like that and thought to myself its amazing, how much things changed over such a period of time

I mean you look at a 2001 car, sure its different to a 2021 car, but a lot of 2001 cars can still blend in just fine

but in 1989 if you looked at a 20~ year Old Morris minor compared to a modern car of the time there is such a vast difference between the 2

It's February 5th 2022.

My daily driver is a 1993 Vauxhall Cavalier. It turned 29 on Thursday.

Were I to have bought an equivalent Vauxhall in February 1993 when this Cavalier was new, it'd have been a 1964 FC-series Victor.

 

Cars have come a long way from thirty years ago.

[brandersnatch]

27 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

I got and have a 1976 Invacar as my first car, only car, and daily driver as well as a Large collection of lightbulbs, lamps and fluorescent tubes in all shapes and sizes (and a few street lights and other fixtures thrown in for good measure) 

Blimey you kept that quiet!

[Inspector Morose]

Something a little different for tonight. No, these isn't my own photo. I must have bought them at a rally and checking the back, there isn't any names or codes on them so if they're yours, sorry. The following tale was gleaned from the man himself during a lunch held honouring his 80th birthday. We had taken him to the Severn Valley Railway where he was allowed on the footplate of Taw valley for a trip from Kidderminster to Bridgnorth. 
Later, seated at the table and after a good meal, I had to ask the question "Mr Cox, why did you buy those short Fleetlines?" The following comes from his reply.
Well, what do we have here then? To answer that we have to delve into a bit of history. Walsall Corporation, at the time, was run by a certain R Edgley Cox, a general manager with, shall we say, his own ideas on how buses should be. His favoured layout had settled on the forward entrance (sliding door usually) bus as drivers could oversee the doors and loading leaving the conductor to concentrate fully on collecting all of the fares (Mr Cox was a Yorkshireman, strangely enough - this might become even more relevant later on in this tale).

Come the early '60s and the rear-engined layout for buses was becoming more popular with Corporations up and down the land and Mr Cox, being a manager who was keen to be up to date with his unorthodox thinking was keen to order a new standardised fleet to replace the many and various buses that existed under his control (many of the differences were of his own making but we'll gloss over that little fact).
R Edgley Cox had a problem, however. The new rear-engined buses also had their entrance at the extreme front and that did not fit in with the layout of his main Corporation bus station, at St Paul's, the layout being suited to the forward entrance, front-engined bus. Now anyone would assume that the problem could easily be solved by rebuilding the bus station to cater for the new buses. Mr Cox saw a number of problems in that. One was that the forward entrance, front-engined buses would then not fit leading to him having to buy more new buses than he wanted, costing the ratepayer extra money and getting rid of buses that still had a useful life left. He reasoned, therefore that it was cheaper to have his new fleet built especially to fit the bus station than to rebuild the bus station to fit the buses and to that, he set off to the manufacturers with his scheme.
Having been keen on the Leyland Atlantean, he had operated a prototype and bought a very early production version for trial, he contacted Leyland first. His plan for a specially shortened Atlantean suitable for just a forward entrance/exit was dismissed out of hand. Leyland could not produce enough of the standard Atlantean to cope with demand (and rectify the problems of the earliest ones) - they had no capacity to build such a special order.
Luckily Daimler was just about to unveil their new Fleetline and so a trip to Coventry was made. They were more welcoming to Mr Coxs' ideas having dealt with him before and agreed to produce a specially shortened Fleetline chassis with no front overhang. 

To body this oddity, Northern Counties of Wigan was chosen. Mr Cox had some experience of a number of their bodies having bought some secondhand trolleybuses from Grimsby and was impressed with their construction. The Wigan coachbuilder duly agreed to build a bespoke body on this short Fleetline to Mr Cox's specification with its single forward entrance behind the front wheels. Careful planning resulted in the new bus having 64 passenger seats, an unbelievable feat considering its length; every conceivable space was used, even a single passenger seat was squeezed in alongside the driver in front of the entrance door.
The drivers' position obviously had to be moved back but instead of raising it to clear the front wheel arch (which would cause terrible problems for the cab height), it was moved inboard so the driver sat almost alongside the front offside wheel. This revised position could cause other problems as the driver was then unable to reach out of the cab window to provide hand signals if necessary!

In 1962 the completed bus was shown at the Commercial Motor show at Earls Court, after this, it settled down to as normal service (as Walsall Corporation No.1) as could be had for such an unusual bus.
In 1969, the Corporation was taken over by the newly formed WMPTE who pushed forward the 'one-manning' of all of its operations. 1L, as it had been renumbered could not in any way be converted for one-man operation; there simply wasn't any front overhang to fit a doorway for passengers to enter and pay the driver. In 1974, after only 12 years in service, 1L was taken to the yard opposite Birmingham Central garage and stripped of its mechanical components. The shell was then carted off for scrap. A sad end (and a bit of a waste) to a bus whose original conception was born from the desire to save money.

[Inspector Morose]

ADH 124B started out as a 'round front' Fleetline from the first production batch for Walsall. In 1965 it was involved in a serious accident, destroying the front and causing the driver of 24 to lose a leg. The bus was sent back to Northern Counties for a rebuild and while there it was decided that this would be a new design for the later batches for Walsall. 

The extreme short length of No.1 had proven to cause a few issued with the drivers and so the chassis was extended a little to 27ft to allow the drivers' position to move away from nearer the centre of the bus. This allowed the possibility of including a narrow front entrance but this was not considered necessary at the time. However, with the advent of one-man operation of double-deckers becoming legal, this position had changed and the rebuild of 24 was used as a prototype for this modification. As the curved glass of the original batch was deemed an expensive luxury, the upper front design was modified to use standard Northern Counties parts (not the first as No.30 was built using standard Northern Counties parts from new). The lower front was more angular in design with a pronounced 'V' to the windscreens. The small front doorway was closed off with a two-leaf door, the production version of this was near frameless glass to assist the drivers' view but on this one, the glass was normal, rubber-mounted in an aluminium frame.

24 re-entered service and settled down to a relatively normal existence apart from a short-lived trial with single rear wheels replacing the normal twin set up. In 1969 24, along with its compatriots passed to the newly formed WMPTE. The PTE was keen to expand one-man operation but this time they were not stymied by the extremely short length, as on No.1. As No.24 had proven, a front entrance could be shoehorned into the front overhang but with the cost of rebuilding 20-odd buses, a compromise was hatched. Lex Coachworks was contracted to rebuild just the lower part of the front of these buses, leaving the original curved upper deck screens. The mux of curves and angles left an ungainly looking bus but one that was of some use to the PTE.

24 obviously didn't need rebuilding and so carried on as normal, being converted to one-man operation. Possibly because of its good condition rebuild early on in its life, it was a long-lived bus, eventually being transferred to Wolverhampton garage to speed their conversion to single manning. Sadly, in 1980 it suffered a half shaft failure and was withdrawn and scrapped after nearly 20 years.

[Yoss]

6 hours ago, cms206 said:

I am not a Routemaster fan, but I believe some of you are.

Strange people.

Anyway, a smattering of Clydeside Routemasters. Daresay I've posted some of these already but if I have, enjoy them again.

 

On the August Bank Holiday weekend of 1987 I went on a four day tour from Finchley garage to Glasgow with RML 903. Once there Clydeside put it in service on the 10 and 11 from Thornliebank and gave us one of theirs, RM 447, to follow it for photographic purposes (there were about 15 people hanging off the platform). In the evening they gave us a Leopard to go to the chip shop. 

This started a good relationship between Finchley and Clydeside, I believe Ian Manning was in charge at the time. So when they rebuilt RML 900, which at the time was one of very few RMLs withdrawn from London due to accident damage, Clydeside returned the favour and brought it back to Finchley and did a couple of rounders on the 13 and 26. Both 900 and 903 would have been new to Finchley of course. 

I have photos upstairs but it's a bit late now but I'll try and dig them out tomorrow. RML 900 really stands out in Oxford Street when all other buses were plain red. 

[busmansholiday]

2 hours ago, Yoss said:

I believe Ian Manning was in charge at the time

Quite probably the same Ian Manning that was in the year above me at King Edward VII in Sheffield. Went on to work for Stagecoach in Portugal amongst others places. 

[Mrcento]

8 hours ago, cms206 said:

I am not a Routemaster fan, but I believe some of you are.

Strange people.

Anyway, a smattering of Clydeside Routemasters. Daresay I've posted some of these already but if I have, enjoy them again.

Routemasters always look bizarre in anything but plain old London transport red.

Plain blocks of colour don't look right, but it's the closest thing to almost working on them.

Actual Liveries don't really work on them.

Here's another 2. Strathtay and Stagecoach.

Much like Clydeside, they played around with the liveries a lot, they'd have several buses in the fleet all painted slightly differently at the same time.

The first Strathtay one really, really doesn't work! The simple one just about works.

It even almost looked quite smart running on white wheels.

 

[Yoss]

Stagecoach never knew what to do at the front of an RM. I've seen so many different variations but that one is particularly dreadful. 

The trouble is it was the 1980s and bold colours and diagonals were all the rage and as you say it really didn't work on a Routemaster. 

[Yoss]

7 hours ago, busmansholiday said:

Quite probably the same Ian Manning that was in the year above me at King Edward VII in Sheffield. Went on to work for Stagecoach in Portugal amongst others places. 

Yep, I'd imagine so. I know he moved around a lot in bus management. Haven't seen him for many many years. I think the last time was at a King Alfred running day. 

[jamescarruthers]

18 hours ago, cms206 said:

The majority of Scottish Bus Group subsidiaries joined the new minibus revolution; Northern did not partake in the habit, Midland took a batch of four Metroriders, while Fife took a further 20. Kelvin took 43 Mercedes 608Ds, but Western, Clydeside, Central, Eastern, Lowland, Fife, Strathtay and Highland all favoured the Renault-Dodge 50-series. Strathtay's were Dormobile bodied, whilst Eastern split theirs between 70 or so Alexander bodied examples and a further 30-odd Reeve Burgess bodied S75s.

Clydeside's second batch of S56s, numbered 323-355 (E323-355 WYS), were unique in featuring the earlier "Mark 1" AM-design on the Renault facelifted Mk2 S56 chassis; these were intially split between Paisley (323-340, 354, 355) and Greenock (341-353). Two of these carried Quicksilver branding in silver & white and featured high backed seating and boots, but were otherwise mechanically identical to the other 31 in the batch with power from the Perkins Phaser turbo mated to Chrysler's TorqueFlite automatic transmissions. Retarders were fitted depending on DTS request; Paisley's were all fitted before entering service despite the town being relatively flat, whilst Greenock preferred to change the brake linings every Sunday. Two of the original batch (301/322, D301/300 SDS) were also coach seated but carried bus livery.

Whilst Clydeside at the time had depots at Largs, Rothesay, Greenock, Johnstone, Paisley, Inchinnan and Thornliebank, only Greenock, Johnstone and Paisley featured them initially, with Inchinnan later gathering many examples. The 50-series continued to be favoured at Clydeside after privatisation, with second hand examples bodied Northern Counties, Reeve Burgess and Alexander arriving well into the late 1990s when the last were seen off, mainly by second hand Mercedes van conversions from Crosville and Maidstone & District.

 

A small bus question!

I live in a small Cambridgeshire village and we have a bus service to Cambridge that I think is x2 OUT (1022 & 1252) and x2 IN (1530 & 2055).  This is served by a double decker which, one the few occasions I have taken it, is practically empty. A single ticket is £6.30, an unlimited day ticket is £6.60– hardly a massive saving on parking either which would be £7.30. No wonder it’s full of nice grannies to chat to on the way in with their free pass; I’d say financially it makes less sense for anyone under 65.

This is actually an increase in service to what the used to have, although removes any possibility of most people who work in town getting there in time to start work. Having just checked the times out I may actually use it for a trip to town for lunch rather than taking the car or cycling (major CBA these days sadly). 
 

Anyway, my question is more to do with the size of the bus than the timings— I should probably be grateful we have anything in the country. This size of the bus seems so incredibly wasteful: although it is always fun to see the fairly skilled reversing in a T-junction manoeuvre that has to be done in the next village when the dead-end is reached!

In my mind it makes sense to use these “mini busses” and send them more frequently.

Is there some sort of bigger picture behind why an empty double decker is sent through just a few times a day and why there aren’t lots of these little busses going through Cambridgeshire villages?

I can see the benefit of much less fuel being used and a downside (to the bus companies) of having to employ more drivers for more journeys that are probably always going to be pretty empty anyway.

 

Am I missing something as to why they buy these gigantic empty busses to send out to the sticks? 

[Eyersey1234]

16 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

I got and have a 1976 Invacar as my first car, only car, and daily driver as well as a Large collection of lightbulbs, lamps and fluorescent tubes in all shapes and sizes (and a few street lights and other fixtures thrown in for good measure) 

I never claimed to be "not strange"  

Why have you never mentioned your Invacar or light bulb collection before? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[Eyersey1234]

33 minutes ago, jamescarruthers said:

 

A small bus question!

I live in a small Cambridgeshire village and we have a bus service to Cambridge that I think is x2 OUT (1022 & 1252) and x2 IN (1530 & 2055).  This is served by a double decker which, one the few occasions I have taken it, is practically empty. A single may do other work that needs  ticket is £6.30, an unlimited day ticket is £6.60– hardly a massive saving on parking either which would be £7.30. No wonder it’s full of nice grannies to chat to on the way in with their free pass; I’d say financially it makes less sense for anyone under 65.

This is actually an increase in service to what the used to have, although removes any possibility of most people who work in town getting there in time to start work. Having just checked the times out I may actually use it for a trip to town for lunch rather than taking the car or cycling (major CBA these days sadly). 
 

Anyway, my question is more to do with the size of the bus than the timings— I should probably be grateful we have anything in the country. This size of the bus seems so incredibly wasteful: although it is always fun to see the fairly skilled reversing in a T-junction manoeuvre that has to be done in the next village when the dead-end is reached!

In my mind it makes sense to use these “mini busses” and send them more frequently.

Is there some sort of bigger picture behind why an empty double decker is sent through just a few times a day and why there aren’t lots of these little busses going through Cambridgeshire villages?

I can see the benefit of much less fuel being used and a downside (to the bus companies) of having to employ more drivers for more journeys that are probably always going to be pretty empty anyway.

 

Am I missing something as to why they buy these gigantic empty busses to send out to the sticks? 

It depends what else the bus does other than these journeys, it may do other work that needs a bigger vehicle outside of those times such as school runs and it makes more sense and is cheaper to roster one bus to do as much as possible rather than have a double decker doing a school run, to then go back to the depot and be parked up while a short E200 does one or two runs on a shopper bus say, to swap back again for the return school run. Hope this makes sense. 

[dozeydustman]

On 04/02/2022 at 17:13, Inspector Morose said:

Buses in the upper part of Cannock, beside the bus wash, were there for parts recovery and scrapping. Here Leyland National NPK243R has been bought up from London Country (another British bus owned company) solely for spares. It would probably sit here for a number of months, parts slowly being transferred onto the running fleet until just a shell is left, after which the scrap man is called in and carted away for a new life as part of a washing machine, or whatever.
A sad end for what looked like a reasonable bus that probably had a few more years left in it but sentimentality doesn't pay the bills in the bus industry.

I may well have travelled on that National as a kid if it was ever allocated to Northfleet depot. When I was about 4 I used to ask my parents if we were going on the big bus (Atlantean) or the noisy bus (National)

[Eyersey1234]

47 minutes ago, jamescarruthers said:

 

A small bus question!

I live in a small Cambridgeshire village and we have a bus service to Cambridge that I think is x2 OUT (1022 & 1252) and x2 IN (1530 & 2055).  This is served by a double decker which, one the few occasions I have taken it, is practically empty. A single ticket is £6.30, an unlimited day ticket is £6.60– hardly a massive saving on parking either which would be £7.30. No wonder it’s full of nice grannies to chat to on the way in with their free pass; I’d say financially it makes less sense for anyone under 65.

This is actually an increase in service to what the used to have, although removes any possibility of most people who work in town getting there in time to start work. Having just checked the times out I may actually use it for a trip to town for lunch rather than taking the car or cycling (major CBA these days sadly). 
 

Anyway, my question is more to do with the size of the bus than the timings— I should probably be grateful we have anything in the country. This size of the bus seems so incredibly wasteful: although it is always fun to see the fairly skilled reversing in a T-junction manoeuvre that has to be done in the next village when the dead-end is reached!

In my mind it makes sense to use these “mini busses” and send them more frequently.

Is there some sort of bigger picture behind why an empty double decker is sent through just a few times a day and why there aren’t lots of these little busses going through Cambridgeshire villages?

I can see the benefit of much less fuel being used and a downside (to the bus companies) of having to employ more drivers for more journeys that are probably always going to be pretty empty anyway.

 

Am I missing something as to why they buy these gigantic empty busses to send out to the sticks? 

It's also often the case with country runs that by running them off the back of school runs it means over the course of a day the bus shows a profit whereas if it just did a couple of journeys through the country the service may not be viable and ends up withdrawn 

[dozeydustman]

If anyone knows whatever happened to AYR352T after Gravesham Council sold it I’d be interested to know. Was LS352 when is service with LT.

 

I loved driving that old thing. Brakes were a bit scary though, needed a massive shove.

[cms206]

@jamescarruthersmore or less what @Eyersey1234as said; by keeping a minibus or midibus purely to do a four times daily rural service may seem to make better sense, in reality it's very poor utilisation and actually costs more in the long run; if the decker (likely four different deckers on different duty boards through the day) is subbed for a separate minibus, that minibus still has to be taxed, insured, MOT'd, tyres paid for (either purchased outright or leased on a wear & replace basis as a fixed cost), fuelled, washed, manned, serviced... they're not cheap, even for a wee one!

When I did stage carriage quite a few of our minibus boards would do off peak stuff either side or be manned off other boards; I'd maybe for example start a service 8 short working from Bridge of Weir into Paisley, then do two short 19 works runs from Paisley to M&Co at Inchinnan before starting my own minibus route 10.

[Inspector Morose]

A general rule of thumb is that a big bus can do most work including the quiet country runs. A little bus can ONLY do the quiet runs. More buses means more maintenance, more road fund licences, more drivers, more engineers to maintain the more buses, more insurance - you get the picture. 

That £6 odd bus fare in comparison to the £7 odd parking charge. Figure in the fuel used, the car insurance for that trip, a proportion of your maintenance and your time in driving to and from Cambridge (to run that service the bus operator has too so let’s make it closer to a like for like comparison). On top of that, your bus company has to make a small surplus on that trip to pay for investment in newer buses, legislation and all and sundry. That £6 odd isn’t the best value but it’s still a fair bit cheaper than the car.

[Eyersey1234]

4 minutes ago, cms206 said:

@jamescarruthersmore or less what @Eyersey1234as said; by keeping a minibus or midibus purely to do a four times daily rural service may seem to make better sense, in reality it's very poor utilisation and actually costs more in the long run; if the decker (likely four different deckers on different duty boards through the day) is subbed for a separate minibus, that minibus still has to be taxed, insured, MOT'd, tyres paid for (either purchased outright or leased on a wear & replace basis as a fixed cost), fuelled, washed, manned, serviced... they're not cheap, even for a wee one!

When I did stage carriage quite a few of our minibus boards would do off peak stuff either side or be manned off other boards; I'd maybe for example start a service 8 short working from Bridge of Weir into Paisley, then do two short 19 works runs from Paisley to M&Co at Inchinnan before starting my own minibus route 10.

When did you do stage carriage work @cms206? I did stage carriage from 2007 to 2020, went onto the NX side then 2 months in Covid struck and ended up back on local bus again for another year. 

[cms206]

12 minutes ago, Eyersey1234 said:

When did you do stage carriage work @cms206? I did stage carriage from 2007 to 2020, went onto the NX side then 2 months in Covid struck and ended up back on local bus again for another year. 

June 2009 until September 2011, then a couple of short spells during 2012-2014 helping out. Went back on the coaches in October 2014 in a driver/manager role before leaving in 2019 after a fall out with the management. Started back at the bottom with Marbill in January 2020.

[cms206]

20 minutes ago, Eyersey1234 said:

When did you do stage carriage work @cms206? I did stage carriage from 2007 to 2020, went onto the NX side then 2 months in Covid struck and ended up back on local bus again for another year. 

These two were my regular steeds at Riverside; N810 PDS had the heaviest clutch known to man and no right hand lock.

N221 MUS was a little honey; 77mph if you were brave enough, really gutsy engine for being the n/a 86bhp 3.9 non-turbo and beatifully light clutch. I liked it a lot.

I did drive our automatic Merc Varios, Dart SLFs and Volvo PS-types too but I generally drove the stick Mercs as I was a three pedal pilot when such things wete hard to come by.

[Yoss]

18 hours ago, cms206 said:

I am not a Routemaster fan, but I believe some of you are.

Strange people.

Anyway, a smattering of Clydeside Routemasters. Daresay I've posted some of these already but if I have, enjoy them again.

 

12 hours ago, Yoss said:

On the August Bank Holiday weekend of 1987 I went on a four day tour from Finchley garage to Glasgow with RML 903. Once there Clydeside put it in service on the 10 and 11 from Thornliebank and gave us one of theirs, RM 447, to follow it for photographic purposes (there were about 15 people hanging off the platform). In the evening they gave us a Leopard to go to the chip shop. 

This started a good relationship between Finchley and Clydeside, I believe Ian Manning was in charge at the time. So when they rebuilt RML 900, which at the time was one of very few RMLs withdrawn from London due to accident damage, Clydeside returned the favour and brought it back to Finchley and did a couple of rounders on the 13 and 26. Both 900 and 903 would have been new to Finchley of course. 

I have photos upstairs but it's a bit late now but I'll try and dig them out tomorrow. RML 900 really stands out in Oxford Street when all other buses were plain red. 

Okay some pictures. 

I believe this is Thornliebank garage, but it was a very long time ago. 

The chap on the right with the water was Cyril. He was Finchleys longest serving driver. I seem to recall he worked on trams or at least remembered them. My main memory of him was aiming the bus at not inconsiderable speed at a 12' 3" bridge. People upstairs started shouting but it went straight through no problem. It was a high arched bridge and he aimed it straight at the middle. I'm hoping he was a good judge of height and it wasn't just luck. 

An unmistakable Glasgow shot. 

This was taken off the back of RM447 which was given to us for photographic purposes. 

And here is 447. 

This might be Balornock East as that's what it said on the blinds of 903. It's really too long ago for me to remember. 

I love this shot. This is how I remember Glasgow bus termini. 

 

Just thought I'd add this as I found it whilst looking for the above and somebody mentioned wreckers a few posts back. 

It doesn't look bus based though, it could be a matador? 

 

And we'll finish on another horrific Stagecoach RM front end treatment, this time on an ex Northern General bus. 

With bonus Alpine/Solara photobomb. 

[Metal Guru]

40 minutes ago, dozeydustman said:

If anyone knows whatever happened to AYR352T after Gravesham Council sold it I’d be interested to know. Was LS352 when is service with LT.

 

I loved driving that old thing. Brakes were a bit scary though, needed a massive shove.

There’s a small heritage railway near me which had one of these converted to a train.

[dozeydustman]

1 minute ago, Metal Guru said:

There’s a small heritage railway near me which had one of these converted to a train.

A pacer

[Yoss]

And the return trip. 

Here it comes in the middle of Oxford Street. 

Even from this distance it couldn't be anything else. 

A bit closer. 

 

Tally Ho Corner, North Finchley. Great name for a bus terminus. Haven't been there in years but I believe it  is now completely unrecognisable from this shot. 

And back at Finchley Garage which is also sadly long gone. 

 

The bus has been slightly refurbished inside which seemed to consist of carpeting everything in sight, sidewalls, ceiling, seat backs and fitting fluorescent lights. Though they look very subtle compared to later London refurbs, especially against the dark grey carpet. 

Because of this it was rebranded a Clydemaster. 

I know at least RM 2083 was also given this treatment, I don't know if there were more. One of our Scottish correspondents may know. The last time I saw RM 2083 it was being broken for spares at the short lived Routemaster Bournemouth operation. 

[artdjones]

After going through the last few pages I can't help thinking that red and yellow don't work together.

[Yoss]

2 hours ago, artdjones said:

After going through the last few pages I can't help thinking that red and yellow don't work together.

Hmm... so blue and orange is fine then is it? 

[artdjones]

2 hours ago, Yoss said:

Hmm... so blue and orange is fine then is it? 

Actually... no.😀

But red and yellow together is awful.

Yellow needs a neutral relief. We had the Titan demonstrator in Cardiff for a while in 1979 and it looked fine.

Better than the homegrown orange, anyway 

[Mrcento]

1 hour ago, Yoss said:

Hmm... so blue and orange is fine then is it? 

It works ok on some buses. It's certainly....different, but they tended to look better in the flesh than on pics. Always felt though they looked better on single deckers.

Strathtays fleet was absolutely mental right up to (and shortly after) the Stagecoach takeover in....2007ish?, They were still running some incredibly old...almost completely decrepit stuff, on daily services. As time went on they tended to add more and more white to their varied liveries.

 

Some bonus footage of the Routemasters in the wild.... they were hideous. I really don't remember them being this common, but this was 1989, i'd have been 1. i'd guess they were pretty much all gone by about 1991/2... i sort of remember 1 trundling around when i was 3 or 4.

 

[busmansholiday]

7 hours ago, dozeydustman said:

If anyone knows whatever happened to AYR352T after Gravesham Council sold it I’d be interested to know. Was LS352 when is service with LT.

 

I loved driving that old thing. Brakes were a bit scary though, needed a massive shove.

There's a Leyland National Facebook group who may* answer your question. Given I don't do Facebook, and detest these bags of shite, I'm hopeful it's now a fridge (BUT I may pull my finger out and post some pics of one of the demos FRM499K in Sheffield in 1973).

As for brakes, when you were brought up on AECs, anything else were shite, and Leylands (at our ex AEC depot) were dreaded.

[Inspector Morose]

Tonight is Walsall trolleybus night! For the younger amongst us, a trolleybus is just like an ordinary bus but powered by an electric motor. Instead of batteries, power for the motor was drawn from two powerlines suspended over the roadway and was collected by sprung booms mounted on the roof of the bus.

For a time they were quite popular, with many towns and cities having trolleybus routes of their own. Some of the advantages were that they were faster than diesel buses (and could climb hills better), cheaper, as they used locally generated electricity instead of imported oil, and quieter with no petrol or diesel engine on board.

Sadly time marches on and it wasn't long before diesel engines became better and more powerful, the fuel became cheaper and with the nationalisation of electrical generation, the advantages of the trolleybus were wiped out. Given that the system of wiring needed careful maintenance too, the wholesale shift towards the more flexible motorbus started not long after the second world war. By the sixties, many systems had abandoned the trolleybus and by 1970 there were just three systems left; Teeside, Bradford and Walsall.

Walsall was an odd survivor. The corporation had been effectively taken over in 1969 by the newly formed West Midlands Passenger Transport Executive. This included the trolleybus system of Walsall, even though there was no want for the new executive to actually continue with its operation. Still, for nearly a year they did just that making WMPTE the only PTE in the country (there were many set up around the country to run their respective public transport) to run a trolleybus system. None of the remaining trolleybuses was repainted into the new livery but the old fleet names and Walsall corporation crests were crudely painted over for their final few months in service. 

Here is ex-Walsall 867, one of the later batch of Willowbrook bodied Sunbeam F4a trolleybuses, known locally as the 'goldfish bowls'. These were built longer than the regulations for two-axle buses allowed at the time, in 1956, and the first built ran under a special dispensation until the law was changed later that year. This later batch F4a is also of note that it used a hub reduction back axle. The earlier batch had a standard axle but suffered from broken half-shafts due to the high torque of an electric motor.

The final day of operation for the Walsall System was 2 October 1970. Sadly 867 did not survive the cutters torch.