Bus Shite

[Leyland Worldmaster]

15 minutes ago, Inspector Morose said:

We did run at least one normally aspirated 510 at Chase (THX117S) and it wasn’t that bad. We did use a different fuel pump though that was a mixture of a Leopard housing with Perkins internals. I drove it to Duxford for a showbus the year we finished rebuilding it.

We also ran a 510 with a supercharger instead of a turbo. That didn’t work so well which was a bit of a ball ache as we moved the radiator especially to make room for the ex-Commer TS3 roots blower.

The last LN I travelled on in service was a Chase Bus Services one. Possibly ex London Transport. 

Would have been back in 2004...👍 👍 👍 

[Leyland Worldmaster]

Spotted by an agent somewhere in Kent last year... 

[Eyersey1234]

@cms206why did OVV 517R get a number plate that was older than the 2 vehicles it was cobbled together from? 

[cms206]

3 hours ago, Eyersey1234 said:

@cms206why did OVV 517R get a number plate that was older than the 2 vehicles it was cobbled together from? 

OVV wasn't an accident rebuild; it was rebuilt by United Counties with a front radiator, additional higher mounted air intakes and was a testbed for improving the National for UCOC's needs. It wasn't particularly successful and as UCOC were a decker heavy concern the Nationals they did have were disposed of relatively early.

[busmansholiday]

13 hours ago, cms206 said:

As Leyland Nationals are a topic once more, I shall do some Nationals.

McGill of Barrhead took their first pair of Nationals in June 1977 and eventually purchased sixteen of the type new, comprising eight Mk1s (TDS 611/2R, XYS 595/6S, DYS 636/7T and LGA 977/8V) and eight Mk2s (UGE 388/9W, BHS 206/7X, B724/5 AGD and C263/4 FGG).  As an aside and something which @Inspector Moroseay or may not know, whilst C49 OCM was the last National built, C263/4 FGG were I believe the last two to enter service some six months later in May of 1986.

There were also a number of second hand examples purchased including the only 10.3/6 metre examples operated. Some photos of the second hand examples follow; SGR 549R was the only one not to operate in fleet livery at any point, being acquired originally only for spares but operated for a short time. I have also included the solitary Leyland Lynx purchased second hand which did not find favour.

 

Arrrhh, the "infamous", amongst South Yorkshire enthusiasts, but totally ignored by all others, AAK112T.

I say "infamous" because it was built for Crossville but diverted to South Yorkshire and delivered (along with its' sisters) in green. Here's a pic I pinched off the web as ICBA to find my picture of it. Spot the differences.

 

 

Yes, it was built as a Mk1b version, so pod less, conventional heating, different front, no side illuminated "pay on entry sign". It was sold like that too and passed via a bus dealer / breaker before "mysteriously" re-appearing in Scotland as a conventional short pod version.

I'll let you make your own assumptions as to what happened to it, or its' reg plate in that dealers yard.

[cms206]

11 minutes ago, busmansholiday said:

Arrrhh, the "infamous", amongst South Yorkshire enthusiasts, but totally ignored by all others, AAK112T.

I say "infamous" because it was built for Crossville but diverted to South Yorkshire and delivered (along with its' sisters) in green. Here's a pic I pinched off the web as ICBA to find my picture of it. Spot the differences.

 

 

Yes, it was built as a Mk1b version, so pod less, conventional heating, different front, no side illuminated "pay on entry sign". It was sold like that too and passed via a bus dealer / breaker before "mysteriously" re-appearing in Scotland as a conventional short pod version.

I'll let you make your own assumptions as to what happened to it, or its' reg plate in that dealers yard.

There is genuinely no infamy about it; Gordon McGill was OCD, and whether they physically were or not all the Nationals simply had to look the same. "B-series" Mk2s KKG 109W and KRS 536V were also fitted with dummy pods on rebuild.

AAK 112T came to McGill in March 1989 from Somerbus and arrived in SYT orange, brown & cream with no grille on the front as well so that's on them!

Oh and when I say rebuild... this is AAK 112T in the workshops.

[Eyersey1234]

39 minutes ago, cms206 said:

OVV wasn't an accident rebuild; it was rebuilt by United Counties with a front radiator, additional higher mounted air intakes and was a testbed for improving the National for UCOC's needs. It wasn't particularly successful and as UCOC were a decker heavy concern the Nationals they did have were disposed of relatively early.

Aah I see, sorry I misread the post and thought you meant OVV was cobbled together out of two that had crashed into each other. 

[Eyersey1234]

41 minutes ago, cms206 said:

OVV wasn't an accident rebuild; it was rebuilt by United Counties with a front radiator, additional higher mounted air intakes and was a testbed for improving the National for UCOC's needs. It wasn't particularly successful and as UCOC were a decker heavy concern the Nationals they did have were disposed of relatively early.

The Southern Vectis Nationals didn't last long either, the first came in about 1972/3 and all were gone by 1987.

[Yoss]

With bonus Tagora action too. Though it's outside a Talbot dealers so no not quite out in the wild. I can't believe this was posted ten hours ago and nobody else had picked up on it. 

[cms206]

4 minutes ago, Eyersey1234 said:

Aah I see, sorry I misread the post and thought you meant OVV was cobbled together out of two that had crashed into each other. 

Sorry, I wasn't too clear! Eastern Counties' DPW 781T was the one which ended up with a full Mk2 front including windscreens after running into the back of KVG 605V.

If memory serves there was a London Country Mk1 ended up with a Mk2 front but I don't remember the story behind it.

[Leyland Worldmaster]

42 minutes ago, busmansholiday said:

Arrrhh, the "infamous", amongst South Yorkshire enthusiasts, but totally ignored by all others, AAK112T.

I say "infamous" because it was built for Crossville but diverted to South Yorkshire and delivered (along with its' sisters) in green. Here's a pic I pinched off the web as ICBA to find my picture of it. Spot the differences.

 

 

Yes, it was built as a Mk1b version, so pod less, conventional heating, different front, no side illuminated "pay on entry sign". It was sold like that too and passed via a bus dealer / breaker before "mysteriously" re-appearing in Scotland as a conventional short pod version.

I'll let you make your own assumptions as to what happened to it, or its' reg plate in that dealers yard.

So the Series B is essentially a bASe spec' National! 👍 👍 👍 

[Eyersey1234]

10 minutes ago, cms206 said:

Sorry, I wasn't too clear! Eastern Counties' DPW 781T was the one which ended up with a full Mk2 front including windscreens after running into the back of KVG 605V.

If memory serves there was a London Country Mk1 ended up with a Mk2 front but I don't remember the story behind it.

I wonder what the story was behind it, Google doesn't bring anything up but does bring an article about the National Greenway up 

[busmansholiday]

1 hour ago, cms206 said:

There is genuinely no infamy about it; Gordon McGill was OCD, and whether they physically were or not all the Nationals simply had to look the same. "B-series" Mk2s KKG 109W and KRS 536V were also fitted with dummy pods on rebuild.

AAK 112T came to McGill in March 1989 from Somerbus and arrived in SYT orange, brown & cream with no grille on the front as well so that's on them!

Oh and when I say rebuild... this is AAK 112T in the workshops.

You learn something new every day.

[cms206]

4 hours ago, Eyersey1234 said:

I wonder what the story was behind it, Google doesn't bring anything up but does bring an article about the National Greenway up 

Found it - YPL 383T. It was rebuilt from more or less Urban Bus light spec to Mk2, complete with a Leopard coach spec 680 in place of the original 510, in 1997 by Northern Bus. It later ran with at least two other operators, though I'm not entirely sure of the provenance of the rebuild.

[cms206]

2 hours ago, Yoss said:

With bonus Tagora action too. Though it's outside a Talbot dealers so no not quite out in the wild. I can't believe this was posted ten hours ago and nobody else had picked up on it. 

Did someone say Tagora?

[cms206]

Rumours abound of shift changes next week... not holding my breath.

Today's fuel is an actual 7.77mpg (318 miles, 186 litres) versus 7.93mpg on the OBC.

Likely to be on route 7B this week until Thursday, then 5B/7B/8B/10B sweeper Friday as normal.

[Eyersey1234]

Today's chariot along with the most recent vehicle to emerge from paint shop. 95 is a tri axle Mercedes Benz Tourismo bought as an ex demonstrator in late 2017 and was the last vehicle bought by EY as an independent company. 727 was numerically the first of a batch of 20 Wright Eclipse Gemini bodied Volvo B9TLs delivered in Spring 2008.

[martc]

Kino International and Hotel Berolina, Karl Marx Allee, East-Berlin, DDR, 1967. But what we are really interested in is the fabulous Ikarus 55 long-distance coach - these have to be one of my favourites; and next to it a slightly more humble Ikarus 311. And could the car be a DKW Junior?

Hotel Karancs, Salgótarján, Hungarian People's Republic, 1981. Hungary is the home of Ikarus so why is there a Czechoslovakian built Karosa SM11 waiting at the bus stop?

 

[Leyland Worldmaster]

Happy New Year! 🐯 🐯 🐯 🐯 🐯 🐯 🐯 🐯 

[martc]

Birmingham New Street, 3rd of July, 1977.

That there London, late 1800's.

[Inspector Morose]

Before and after.

Was it really over 30 years ago when I took these photos? Time flies and all that. Anyway, These photos are of the same bus, C141SPB, A Leyland Tiger. At the time, Midland Red North had a shortfall of modern(ish) buses on their books and with a distinct lack of cash to go out and buy a load of brand new ones, a bit of lateral thinking had to be done.

Luckily, another of the companies owned by British Bus (who owned MRN at the time) had a surplus of relatively modern coaches. Most of these had a high floor and relatively heavy bodies by Berkhof of the Netherlands and were most unsuited to running around housing estates. Luckily the chassis and the body of buses and coaches were still built as two separate items and the Leyland Tiger chassis was well known and understood by the engineers at Cannock.

A plan was formed that the coaches would be 'sold' to Midland Red North who would have the bodies removed and scrapped whereupon new bodies by British Bus's pet bodybuilder, East Lancashire Coachbuilders of Blackburn, would be built upon the refurbished chassis. No more surplus coaches and a relatively modern fleet for MRN at a modest cost.

The coaches were duly towed up to Cannock for inspection and a local scrap merchant was called in to remove the body using the tried and tested cutting torch. The chassis would then be overhauled and painted then sent north for its new bus body.

I was at Cannock, overseeing the repaint of Walsall trolleybus 862 at the time and so was allowed to wander into the yard to take a shot or two of the soon to be no more, Dutch body on C141. Just behind C141 was a Tiger chassis that had already been stripped of its former body and was awaiting movement up north to East Lancs.

A few years later, I was in Wolverhampton and the very same C141SPB appeared in my viewfinder, looking rather different from the last time I saw it.

 

 

[RoadworkUK]

Wow, those Berkhof bodies can't have been particularly old at that point.

[Inspector Morose]

Sheffield bus station was a great place to base yourself when photographing buses as other operators used to come in from time to time. One of the more unexpected visitors was this fairly new Scania with Northern Counties body on a service from Manchester. For such a long journey you'd have thought that a coach would be more appropriate but no, this Scania, bus seats and all, was deemed good enough.
I looked at this and remember it if it was taken only a few weeks ago but not a lot now survives of this shot. The lower part of the bus station was gone by the early 2000s.
GM buses were split up - half to Stagecoach and the other to First bus who have now sold their share on to what was Northern General.
The bus? Now in preservation and restored. God, I feel old.

[Inspector Morose]

The beauty of basing myself in Sheffield bus station was that other operators used to come in, from time to time, on long distance services from far-flung places like Macclesfield or, in this case, Hanley. Here a PMT (no sniggering in the back) Optare Delta is loading up at the lower part of Sheffield bus station for its return journey back to the Potteries.
Potteries Motor Traction, to give it its full title, had by this time been acquired by the juggernaut that was First bus. Only a short time later, the colourful and individual livery was obliterated by a corporate hue.

[Inspector Morose]

No visit to Sheffield in the 1990s would be complete without savouring the delights of Northern Bus with their many, many REs, collected from far and wide and pressed back into everyday service around the streets of South Yorkshire. It was like shooting fish in a barrel, all you had to do is sit and wait for REs from Crossville, Trent, United, and many more operators to line up in your viewfinder.
Noteworthy, apart from the REs, is that this was taken at the lower portion of Sheffield bus station. In the early part of this century, this part was demolished and redeveloped with generic looking buildings, leaving the upper part (perpendicular to this one) to cater for the remaining services using the interchange. Of course, by that time Northern Bus was gone and the streets of Sheffield rang no more to the bellow of Bristols.

[Inspector Morose]

Seen in Leeds is C101HUL an ex-London Transport Volvo Citybus with an Alexander R-type body. 
C101HUL had a bit of an interesting history in that when new, it was used to test a hydraulic energy recovery and drive system. Energy was recovered from braking and stored under pressure in large hydraulic accumulators under the bus. This was used to accelerate the bus from a standstill, allowing the engine to remain at idle until around 4mph when it took over again.
When new, it was featured on Tomorrows World with the technology attracting some interest. Sadly it was a dead end and after a short time in service (where significant fuel savings were recorded), the bus was returned to standard and the bus sold out of London.
Black Prince of Morley were big fans of Volvos, generally preferring the B55 Ailsa but when a relatively modern example such as this came on the market, it was snapped up and entered service minus its centre doorway.

[Inspector Morose]

This was taken on a run to Bridlington. We borrowed SOE975H from a local operator so that we could have two 'jumbos' together, the photo was taken from the open emergency exit of 3975 while we were making progress.
3997, the subject of the picture, survives as part of the National Express West Midlands heritage fleet. 3975 sadly, does not - allegedly

[Inspector Morose]

What was it with me managing to photograph buses that would be, in the future, preserved? It horrifies me to think that ANA1Y here has been in preservation for over 20 years now, when I took this shot, it was only about 10 years old but looking in fine order.
ANA1Y was the first production Manchester Olympian, there was one before it but that was a very early chassis for trial purposes. This early batch was fitted with Leyland TL11 engines and hydracyclic gearboxes and with its (slightly modified) Northern Counties body, this was as close to GM buses favoured Atlanteans they could get. 
Over the next few batches of buses, the specification slowly changed, firstly the engine choice was changed to Gardner then the choice gearbox was changed to Voith. One thing that stayed familiar though was the SELNEC style body as seen on nearly all GM buses from the early '70s onwards.

[Inspector Morose]

Buses needed to be economical more than anything else so 'just enough' power was always the order of the day. Engines could be specified with higher outputs though, maybe if the bus was to spend most of its time on fast running roads or a long distance route and it has been known that operators replacing the standard engine with an uprated one for a certain task. 

Most operators in the '70s - '90s specified a power output of around 170-180bhp for their double deck fleet, only dual purpose buses possibly having more. Nowadays power seems to be around the 250 mark but achieved with much less cubic capacity than the 10.45 litre monsters of old.

[busmansholiday]

1 hour ago, Inspector Morose said:

Before and after.

Was it really over 30 years ago when I took these photos? Time flies and all that. Anyway, These photos are of the same bus, C141SPB, A Leyland Tiger. At the time, Midland Red North had a shortfall of modern(ish) buses on their books and with a distinct lack of cash to go out and buy a load of brand new ones, a bit of lateral thinking had to be done.

Luckily, another of the companies owned by British Bus (who owned MRN at the time) had a surplus of relatively modern coaches. Most of these had a high floor and relatively heavy bodies by Berkhof of the Netherlands and were most unsuited to running around housing estates. Luckily the chassis and the body of buses and coaches were still built as two separate items and the Leyland Tiger chassis was well known and understood by the engineers at Cannock.

A plan was formed that the coaches would be 'sold' to Midland Red North who would have the bodies removed and scrapped whereupon new bodies by British Bus's pet bodybuilder, East Lancashire Coachbuilders of Blackburn, would be built upon the refurbished chassis. No more surplus coaches and a relatively modern fleet for MRN at a modest cost.

The coaches were duly towed up to Cannock for inspection and a local scrap merchant was called in to remove the body using the tried and tested cutting torch. The chassis would then be overhauled and painted then sent north for its new bus body.

I was at Cannock, overseeing the repaint of Walsall trolleybus 862 at the time and so was allowed to wander into the yard to take a shot or two of the soon to be no more, Dutch body on C141. Just behind C141 was a Tiger chassis that had already been stripped of its former body and was awaiting movement up north to East Lancs.

A few years later, I was in Wolverhampton and the very same C141SPB appeared in my viewfinder, looking rather different from the last time I saw it.

 

 

East Kent went the other way, having Duple bodied Reliances rebodied with that style Berkhof bodies.