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On 11/17/2021 at 2:28 PM, sierraman said:

It’s a 1985 Dennis Dorchester with a Plaxton Paramount body, no idea on the engine, maybe a Cummins L10, not sure. 

Dorchesters were pretty rare beasts in England as they were mainly built for the Scottish Bus Group. Geoff Amos in Daventry had the biggest English fleet with five of them, all oddities unique to this operator. The first had a Reeve Burgess body (unusual on a full-size bus), followed by two Wadham Stringer and then a pair of Caetano coaches, all finished in a distinctive livery with pink/lilac stripes. All long gone now of course, as is the operator itself, going out of business in 2011.

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Stagecoach up here (Fife) have got a fair few, cascaded from places where they value the customers slightly more. Slightly. There's a 55 plate which gives every impression of wanting to be left alone in a corner to die in peace. There's a few 'luxury' ones from up north, with air con and leather seats.

I ran for one, one day, thinking it was kind of the driver to wait just beyond the stop for me. Nope, it had just shat its' diff, as evidenced by the short trail of oil and shrapnel. 

I'll grab a few pics some time...

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6 hours ago, DaveAspley said:

Just realised today that all the Optare Solos have disappeared en masse around here very recently 

 

38460663255_70f1113572_b.jpg

 

4 hours ago, High Jetter said:

Too many complaint about the 'terrible draft in here...shut that door!" perhaps?

Could also be they are all broken at once.

I used to work across from the depot here and they were mostly found sitting outside, looking broken with pieces missing, engine covers off etc.

They certainly didn't give off the impression of a well built reliable money making vehicle for a company that needed them on the road significantly more than off it.

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26 minutes ago, Mrcento said:

 

Could also be they are all broken at once.

I used to work across from the depot here and they were mostly found sitting outside, looking broken with pieces missing, engine covers off etc.

They certainly didn't give off the impression of a well built reliable money making vehicle for a company that needed them on the road significantly more than off it.

We had 4 Solos, fleet numbers 420-3, and while they were a bit shonky they at least spent more time on the road than off, which is more than can be said for the Excels, which really were utter shit, fucking awful to drive and fell to bits when you looked at them. 

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1 hour ago, Mrcento said:

 

Could also be they are all broken at once.

I used to work across from the depot here and they were mostly found sitting outside, looking broken with pieces missing, engine covers off etc.

They certainly didn't give off the impression of a well built reliable money making vehicle for a company that needed them on the road significantly more than off it.

Maybe that's why they were given silly 'names'?

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Took my son to Sandtoft trolleybus museum again yesterday  they were open until 6pm so you could ride the trolleys in the dark to experience the flickering lights.

The beige trolley had a diesel engine too, do any of you know more about its history (it would probably help if I'd taken better photos)

The other but was battery electric and from what I gather is a modern copy of an electric bus from 1911.

20211120_145032.jpg

20211120_144911.jpg

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The top one is the newest UK trolleybus, SYPTE 2450. Built as an experiment for a proposed trolleybus network, it only ever ran on a test course alongside Doncaster racecourse. The depot was opposite the course so wiring was also strung across the road to the depot making that little bit of overhead the last and newest trolleybus overhead used on public roads in the whole of the UK.

As nobody had built a trolleybus since 1962, there wasn’t a company in the UK that could build one ‘off the shelf’. Enter Dennis during its “you want a what? Sure, we can build that” phase. Although everyone calls it a Dominator, the chassis is very much more similar to its Falcon single deck chassis with its longitudinal rails all the way back to the rear of the bus. 
As you couldn’t buy trolleybus spares at your local factors, a little ingenuity was called for when trying to equip the chassis. The motor was a reconditioned ex-Bradford 120hp motor and was controlled by a scratch built thyristor control set up that plagues it to this day (the usual method to make it go involves lifting the rear side panel whee the control system is located and giving it a sharp kick where normal service is resumed).
making it go is one thing  but theres a lot of other systems on a bus to power. A compressor to supply air for the brakes, doors, wipers and suspension is needed and as it didn’t have an engine to drive it, one powered by the overhead was needed. A root around various stores of the sponsors of the project, a suitable set up was found that used to be housed in a class 08 shunter. Horribly over specced and large, it was available for cheap so in it went in the back. Next was hydraulic power for the steering and low voltage electric for the lights and other bus things. Here the solution was to find a motor-generator set from an underground train and modify one end to drive a hydraulic pump. This had to run all the time to keep steering and electrical power and was incredibly loud making the proclamation on the side as the ‘quiet revolution in transport’ a bit of a piss take. It also drew huge current on starting, making the initial current draw of the bus when switching on enough to occasionally trip the breakers on the overhead power supply when we ran it at the BCLM.

SYPTE wanted off wire manoeuvrability so a three cylinder Ruston diesel engine was perched on top of the back of the chassis, driving a generator that could supply the bus with enough electricity to make it move along at about 14mph on the flat (theres a tale about driving this to the local pub one evening but I’ll leave that for another day)

So, we have a chassis (bit of a lash up but it worked) so how to body it? Alexander was bodying a run of the standard SYPTE Dominators so they were ‘persuaded’ to modify an extra one of those to fit the trolleybus. The roof was calculated as being strong enough in itself to carry the weight of the poles on the roof.
Ah yes, trolleypoles. New ones were still being made on the continent so buying a pair wasn’t a problem but attaching them to the bus was. Nobody had made bases suitable for fitment to a double decker for over 20 years so to keep costs down, single deck ones were used and mounted at the right angle with a huge cowling fitted around it all to try and disguise the bodge - making this Alexander R type the tallest of its style ever made..

They had a bus and the route was wired using off the shelf continental overhead fittings and they were ready to test. This they did and it became a regular sight travelling up and down the racecourse route. On open days, it even carried the occasional passenger or two but it never actually entered what any sane person would call ‘service’. It was registered though as it had to cross a public road to get back to the depot  and the ministry of transport was an arse so the number B450CKW as the last of the run of a batch of standard Dominators delivered at the same time. Before it ver ran un anger as a complete bus, the plates were swapped, it becoming C45HDT instead as the first of a series that included another Dennis oddball, the Domino midibus.

After spending so much time and money, why did it fail? Admittedly, the bus was a total lash up but it did prove the concept and was enough to convince enough people that a properly built trolleybus could be a goer. Problem was Deregulation was just around the corner and nobody knew what was going to happen. Would competition be allowed to use any overhead constructed at great cost to the PTE? It was quickly decided that this sort of thing was not a clever idea in the current climate and so the whole thing was quietly and rapidly shelved. 

2450 sat at Doncaster for years, slowly donated body parts (near enough brand new and unused) to the identical diesel fleet and eventually the test route was dismantled and sold for scrap leaving 2450 marooned at the depot. To save costs, many depots were considered for closure and Doncaster was one of them. 2450 was effectively still owned by SYPTE and not the bus company, renamed Mainline. With Doncaster closing, the PTE had to move the bus somewhere so contact was made with Sandtoft to house the bus there, with enough bits to make it into a complete vehicle again. And here it’s stayed ever since, apart from being borrowed  for the Black Country Museums ‘Trolleybus Galore” event - the only time it has ever run under its own power other than Doncaster and Sandtoft. 

It was very much a fickle beast at the best of times and it looks like it’s complexity has won out as it barely ever runs now and is regarded very much as a static exhibit. Such a sad end for a bus that effectively never entered service and could be considered a brand new 1985 SYPTE spec Dennis.

 

The other bus is a recreation of an early Railless trolleybus that Sandtoft commissioned from, I believe, a Czech trolleybus group who specialises in recreating the early days of the trolleybus.

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8 hours ago, Dan302 said:

Took my son to Sandtoft trolleybus museum again yesterday  they were open until 6pm so you could ride the trolleys in the dark to experience the flickering lights.

The beige trolley had a diesel engine too, do any of you know more about its history (it would probably help if I'd taken better photos)

The other but was battery electric and from what I gather is a modern copy of an electric bus from 1911.

20211120_145032.jpg

20211120_144911.jpg

Years since I was at Sandtoft 

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4 hours ago, Inspector Morose said:

 and the ministry of transport was an arse so the number B450CKW as the last of the run of a batch of standard Dominators delivered at the same time. Before it ever ran in anger as a complete bus, the plates were swapped, it becoming C45HDT instead as the first of a series that included another Dennis oddball, the Domino midibus.

There were indeed delays with the registration and the intended B450CKW was void by the ministry. It was then intended to be registered B45FET but, IIRC, the PTE wanted it to look like a "new" bus on show (in August) and as the old reg letter changed in August (therefore making it look like an older vehicle), they did some wheeler dealing and had Domino 45 registered as B45FET and it's reg, C45HDT put on the trolleybus..The batch of Domino's was 41 to 54 which were C41-54HDT, except for of course for 45.

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@Inspector Morose loved the details there! thats exactly the sort of stuff I love reading about :)

55 minutes ago, busmansholiday said:

The chassis of 2450 was exhibited at the Commercial Motor Show before it was bodied. I remember seeing it and thinking "that looks like a right lash up". Think I've a picture somewhere of arse end of it.

 

29 minutes ago, busmansholiday said:

There were indeed delays with the registration and the intended B450CKW was void by the ministry. It was then intended to be registered B45FET but, IIRC, the PTE wanted it to look like a "new" bus on show (in August) and as the old reg letter changed in August (therefore making it look like an older vehicle), they did some wheeler dealing and had Domino 45 registered as B45FET and it's reg, C45HDT put on the trolleybus..The batch of Domino's was 41 to 54 which were C41-54HDT, except for of course for 45.

that reminds me! since I know your good with the pictures you dont happen to have any pictures of MHJ54P do you? :)

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1 hour ago, busmansholiday said:

There were indeed delays with the registration and the intended B450CKW was void by the ministry. It was then intended to be registered B45FET but, IIRC, the PTE wanted it to look like a "new" bus on show (in August) and as the old reg letter changed in August (therefore making it look like an older vehicle), they did some wheeler dealing and had Domino 45 registered as B45FET and it's reg, C45HDT put on the trolleybus..The batch of Domino's was 41 to 54 which were C41-54HDT, except for of course for 45.

Good man! I knew you’d come up with the info I missed.

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6 hours ago, Inspector Morose said:

The top one is the newest UK trolleybus, SYPTE 2450. Built as an experiment for a proposed trolleybus network, it only ever ran on a test course alongside Doncaster racecourse. The depot was opposite the course so wiring was also strung across the road to the depot making that little bit of overhead the last and newest trolleybus overhead used on public roads in the whole of the UK.

As nobody had built a trolleybus since 1962, there wasn’t a company in the UK that could build one ‘off the shelf’. Enter Dennis during its “you want a what? Sure, we can build that” phase. Although everyone calls it a Dominator, the chassis is very much more similar to its Falcon single deck chassis with its longitudinal rails all the way back to the rear of the bus. 
As you couldn’t buy trolleybus spares at your local factors, a little ingenuity was called for when trying to equip the chassis. The motor was a reconditioned ex-Bradford 120hp motor and was controlled by a scratch built thyristor control set up that plagues it to this day (the usual method to make it go involves lifting the rear side panel whee the control system is located and giving it a sharp kick where normal service is resumed).
making it go is one thing  but theres a lot of other systems on a bus to power. A compressor to supply air for the brakes, doors, wipers and suspension is needed and as it didn’t have an engine to drive it, one powered by the overhead was needed. A root around various stores of the sponsors of the project, a suitable set up was found that used to be housed in a class 08 shunter. Horribly over specced and large, it was available for cheap so in it went in the back. Next was hydraulic power for the steering and low voltage electric for the lights and other bus things. Here the solution was to find a motor-generator set from an underground train and modify one end to drive a hydraulic pump. This had to run all the time to keep steering and electrical power and was incredibly loud making the proclamation on the side as the ‘quiet revolution in transport’ a bit of a piss take. It also drew huge current on starting, making the initial current draw of the bus when switching on enough to occasionally trip the breakers on the overhead power supply when we ran it at the BCLM.

SYPTE wanted off wire manoeuvrability so a three cylinder Ruston diesel engine was perched on top of the back of the chassis, driving a generator that could supply the bus with enough electricity to make it move along at about 14mph on the flat (theres a tale about driving this to the local pub one evening but I’ll leave that for another day)

So, we have a chassis (bit of a lash up but it worked) so how to body it? Alexander was bodying a run of the standard SYPTE Dominators so they were ‘persuaded’ to modify an extra one of those to fit the trolleybus. The roof was calculated as being strong enough in itself to carry the weight of the poles on the roof.
Ah yes, trolleypoles. New ones were still being made on the continent so buying a pair wasn’t a problem but attaching them to the bus was. Nobody had made bases suitable for fitment to a double decker for over 20 years so to keep costs down, single deck ones were used and mounted at the right angle with a huge cowling fitted around it all to try and disguise the bodge - making this Alexander R type the tallest of its style ever made..

They had a bus and the route was wired using off the shelf continental overhead fittings and they were ready to test. This they did and it became a regular sight travelling up and down the racecourse route. On open days, it even carried the occasional passenger or two but it never actually entered what any sane person would call ‘service’. It was registered though as it had to cross a public road to get back to the depot  and the ministry of transport was an arse so the number B450CKW as the last of the run of a batch of standard Dominators delivered at the same time. Before it ver ran un anger as a complete bus, the plates were swapped, it becoming C45HDT instead as the first of a series that included another Dennis oddball, the Domino midibus.

After spending so much time and money, why did it fail? Admittedly, the bus was a total lash up but it did prove the concept and was enough to convince enough people that a properly built trolleybus could be a goer. Problem was Deregulation was just around the corner and nobody knew what was going to happen. Would competition be allowed to use any overhead constructed at great cost to the PTE? It was quickly decided that this sort of thing was not a clever idea in the current climate and so the whole thing was quietly and rapidly shelved. 

2450 sat at Doncaster for years, slowly donated body parts (near enough brand new and unused) to the identical diesel fleet and eventually the test route was dismantled and sold for scrap leaving 2450 marooned at the depot. To save costs, many depots were considered for closure and Doncaster was one of them. 2450 was effectively still owned by SYPTE and not the bus company, renamed Mainline. With Doncaster closing, the PTE had to move the bus somewhere so contact was made with Sandtoft to house the bus there, with enough bits to make it into a complete vehicle again. And here it’s stayed ever since, apart from being borrowed  for the Black Country Museums ‘Trolleybus Galore” event - the only time it has ever run under its own power other than Doncaster and Sandtoft. 

It was very much a fickle beast at the best of times and it looks like it’s complexity has won out as it barely ever runs now and is regarded very much as a static exhibit. Such a sad end for a bus that effectively never entered service and could be considered a brand new 1985 SYPTE spec Dennis.

 

The other bus is a recreation of an early Railless trolleybus that Sandtoft commissioned from, I believe, a Czech trolleybus group who specialises in recreating the early days of the trolleybus.

The AS Book of Buses. You must write it! Really interesting write-up! 

I've a BUSES Magazine with a feature on this bus. I'll dig that part of my archives out and post here. 

Won't be for a while; I'm on "Derate" at the moment... 👍 😎

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When we borrowed 2450 for the Black County Museum event, we had to drag it down from Sandtoft. Usually our recovery company of choice would suspend tow stuff down but one look at that tower perched on the roof and he decided it was coming down on a flat bar.

Guess who got the job of ‘driving’ it to Dudley? Quite possibly I must be the person who’s driven it the furthest distance in one journey. 

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20 minutes ago, willswitchengage said:

Bus stop shite. Anyone able to top Brighton's pleasant art deco shelters? According to the web they were originally tram stops.

156c8b616513e634ae23ff39fd99e3b8.jpg

There's a (bus) stop opposite Torre Station in Torquay that dates to the introduction of the trams there (they used the Doulter system - look it up) in 1907.

Not as good looking, but nice.

(Sad fucking enthusiast mode off!!).

Old Tram Shelter, Torre

 

 

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23 minutes ago, 2cvspecial said:

was bored of the swearing and silly sex noises coming from kids who have no / little brain cells - back to teaching it is

Arh, does that mean you're going to teach them how to make the noises to piss off the next bus driver or beat seven bells out of them so they don't do it and make life more tolerable (been there etc, etc) for the next driver ?

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