Bus Shite

[Leyland Worldmaster]

On 8/16/2021 at 5:30 PM, Leyland Worldmaster said:

Good shout. Although I believe the ultimate would be an extremely rare Leyland Royal Tiger Doyen. The first picture is the badge... Yes the badge is heavy... 

The second picture features a Doyen with my badge temporarily applied for a couple of pictures. 

The owner has restored this coach to a very high standard and a badge was found for it and fitted... 🤩🤩🤩

Incidentally, this model has it's own piece of music... 

 

[busmansholiday]

On 8/8/2021 at 2:25 PM, iainrcz said:

Does this little fella count?

In Buxton. I'm guessing milk float based.

Don't tell anyone, but it's actually not raining currently.

I'll see your milk float and raise you a Ford Transit........

 

 

 

 

 

 

[iainrcz]

I bet whoever made that stood back and said "yeah, that's mint"

Maybe not.

[busmansholiday]

2 hours ago, iainrcz said:

I bet whoever made that stood back and said "yeah, that's mint"

Maybe not.

The Routemaster grill is probably worth more than the rest of it.

Admittedly, walking out of Torquay Station and seeing that might* put you off Torquay!

[High Jetter]

^^^ It's just missing the 'Flowery Twats' destination board!

[gm]

Spotted in Durham marketplace this afternoon

I've not heard of the Aycliffe and District Bus Preservation Society but, if this is the quality of their work, I should look them up

 

[High Jetter]

IOW reg tho?

[Eyersey1234]

2 hours ago, High Jetter said:

IOW reg tho?

It was new to Southern Vectis

[quicksilver]

It's 90 years since the first Bedford hit the road and the Bedford Enthusiasts' Club have just held an event in Leighton Buzzard to celebrate. This was a highlight as Plaxton Paramount-bodied YNTs were the mainstay of so many operators when I was growing up but they've almost all disappeared now. It was bought new by the current owner 35 years ago and is much cherished and still fully PSV-licensed.

[busmansholiday]

The last lot of B&Ws from 50 years ago were of the Nottingham rally, here's a few more.

A line up on the road run. Don't know where in Nottingham, somebody will hopefully recognise it.

This Bridgemaster (new to South Wales) was what we used for the day, seen here next to an ex Chesterfield Crossley and a yooof (who's now in his mid 60's) with a typical early 70's hair cut.

More goodness, an Albion.

Trent had a depot just down the road in Nottingham then, these were outside, Alexander bodied Fleetline 531 and a Metro Cammel bodied PD2, 769. I believe the latter still survives in Preservation.

Inside the depot were these two Leopards, Alexander bodied 228 and Willowbrook bodied 210.

We also came across another Fleetline, 512 on the road run.

 

 

[Dan302]

I did a thread on my visit to Sandtoft Trolleybus museum but here's a few pics.

 

[Dyslexic Viking]

Norwegian combined freight and passenger bus 1959.

[Eyersey1234]

54 minutes ago, Dan302 said:

I did a thread on my visit to Sandtoft Trolleybus museum but here's a few pics.

 

I've been meaning to get back to Sandtoft for a while, must be about 12 years since I went 

[Zelandeth]

12 hours ago, quicksilver said:

It's 90 years since the first Bedford hit the road and the Bedford Enthusiasts' Club have just held an event in Leighton Buzzard to celebrate. This was a highlight as Plaxton Paramount-bodied YNTs were the mainstay of so many operators when I was growing up but they've almost all disappeared now. It was bought new by the current owner 35 years ago and is much cherished and still fully PSV-licensed.

Shame I didn't know that was on or I'd have made a point of coming along to grab some photos.  Have a huge soft spot for 70s Bedford coaches.

[martc]

Rotherham.

[busmansholiday]

1 hour ago, martc said:

Rotherham.

Ex Felix Motors of Dunscroft, looked a lot better in their colours than the vomit and dog shit the PTE chose (the original PTE livery was worse).

 

[Leyland Worldmaster]

2 hours ago, martc said:

Rotherham.

Pure AS livery, right there! 👍 👍 👍 😎 😎 😎 

[RoadworkUK]

6 hours ago, HarmonicCheeseburger said:

Howcome double deckers now have lost this rear hump?

The rear hump (or bustle) that housed the engine, gearbox etc came with the Atlantean / Fleetline chassis itself, and the bodybuilders worked around them. It's much like the Plaxton / Bedford at the top of the page, where the bodywork immediately around the engine was supplied by the chassis company and was integrated into the bodywork, as was generally the case with van-derived buses.

[Inspector Morose]

8 hours ago, HarmonicCheeseburger said:

How come double deckers now have lost this rear hump?

Well, the first Atlantean PDR1 (not the first rear engined double decker built but I might come back to this in a bit) didn't have a bustle but had the engine compartment built into the body. On testing this prototype with operators (another was built but not registered and was used for in house testing) it was found that the 0600 engine was using the body as a giant sounding box making the travelling on it a very noisy experience for the passengers - not what you want passengers to take from a 'bus of the future'.

The first modification was to cut large grilles into the engine cover to try an let some of the noise out but this was barely any better. Obviously a better solution was needed so after it's use as a demonstrator ended, the prototype Atlantean was pulled in to the works and the rear was completely rebuilt with what would become the familiar bustle in an attempt to move the noise of the engine outside the bus. After this rebuild, the bus never carried another passenger but was used, along with its unregistered twin, for further refining of the bus following feedback from operators.

The resultant Atlantean PDR1/1 was a much simpler design, with a conventional chassis, leaf springs and the engine (in the now familiar bustle) mounted outside of the passenger saloon.

Daimler, on developing the Fleetline basically copied the concept of the Atlantean bustle and all but using a drop centre rear axle, Gardner engine allowing it to me more palatable for those wanting a low height vehicle and/or a Gardner engine.

There were exceptions with first generation rear engined buses. Most obviously was the Bristol VRT whose ECW body had the power-pack built into the bodywork but whether it was the quieter Gardner engine or Bristol thought that their passengers were made of hardier stuff; the internal noise levels were not deemed to be an issue.

The other exception was not a rear engined bus but could not be classified as one of the new generations of chassis. This was the Guy Wulfrunian - a front engined, front entrance low height bus with disk brakes, air suspension (independent on the front) and a combined heating/engine cooling system that dispensed with a conventional radiator. The hulking great Gardner engine was mounted between the driver and the front platform and with so little space available, apart from a thin metal cover, there was little in the form of insulation. Having driven one of the surviving examples for a good number of miles I can tell you that Leyland were right on the money in encapsulating the engine and moving it outside of the passenger space!

Oh yes, I was going to mention the first rear engined double deckers, wasn't I? Well, these were two experimental buses (The Leyland Lowloader) built by Leyland to solve the Lowheight problem. Usually to have a lowheight bus, the upper deck was a compromise with a sunken side gangway serving rows of four abreast seating. This was due to the chassis height not being low enough for a regular bus body within the restricted height limits. Bristol were first to come up with a better solution with the Lodekka but Leyland went a different way, moving the engine on to the rear platform and making the chassis more of a giant rear engined skateboard allowing the body to be of a more normal layout. Obviously the space on the rear platform could not contain the usual 0600 engine so a smaller 0350 engine was used instead. To regain the power deficit, a turbo was fitted to the engine. This combination of a small engine with a turbo made the powerpack quiet enough for it not to be that much of an issue, it only becoming a problem on the next development of the concept (The PDR1 Atlantean which is where we came in).

This idea of a queter running, smaller turbo engine has also allowed newer generations of chassis builders to get rid of the bustle and along with much better insulation has made travelling at the rear of one of these not the noisy experience of old.

[Toe]

4 hours ago, Inspector Morose said:

 

This idea of a queter running, smaller turbo engine has also allowed newer generations of chassis builders to get rid of the bustle and along with much better insulation has made travelling at the rear of one of these not the noisy experience of old.

Not to mention hot, great in the winter but phew in the summer. Hot oil smell mixed in too but overall not a bad experience, apart from maybe a keen driver making time up going uphill 😲

[Leyland Worldmaster]

4 hours ago, Inspector Morose said:

Well, the first Atlantean PDR1 (not the first rear engined double decker built but I might come back to this in a bit) didn't have a bustle but had the engine compartment built into the body. On testing this prototype with operators (another was built but not registered and was used for in house testing) it was found that the 0600 engine was using the body as a giant sounding box making the travelling on it a very noisy experience for the passengers - not what you want passengers to take from a 'bus of the future'.

The first modification was to cut large grilles into the engine cover to try an let some of the noise out but this was barely any better. Obviously a better solution was needed so after it's use as a demonstrator ended, the prototype Atlantean was pulled in to the works and the rear was completely rebuilt with what would become the familiar bustle in an attempt to move the noise of the engine outside the bus. After this rebuild, the bus never carried another passenger but was used, along with its unregistered twin, for further refining of the bus following feedback from operators.

The resultant Atlantean PDR1/1 was a much simpler design, with a conventional chassis, leaf springs and the engine (in the now familiar bustle) mounted outside of the passenger saloon.

Daimler, on developing the Fleetline basically copied the concept of the Atlantean bustle and all but using a drop centre rear axle, Gardner engine allowing it to me more palatable for those wanting a low height vehicle and/or a Gardner engine.

There were exceptions with first generation rear engined buses. Most obviously was the Bristol VRT whose ECW body had the power-pack built into the bodywork but whether it was the quieter Gardner engine or Bristol thought that their passengers were made of hardier stuff; the internal noise levels were not deemed to be an issue.

The other exception was not a rear engined bus but could not be classified as one of the new generations of chassis. This was the Guy Wulfrunian - a front engined, front entrance low height bus with disk brakes, air suspension (independent on the front) and a combined heating/engine cooling system that dispensed with a conventional radiator. The hulking great Gardner engine was mounted between the driver and the front platform and with so little space available, apart from a thin metal cover, there was little in the form of insulation. Having driven one of the surviving examples for a good number of miles I can tell you that Leyland were right on the money in encapsulating the engine and moving it outside of the passenger space!

Oh yes, I was going to mention the first rear engined double deckers, wasn't I? Well, these were two experimental buses (The Leyland Lowloader) built by Leyland to solve the Lowheight problem. Usually to have a lowheight bus, the upper deck was a compromise with a sunken side gangway serving rows of four abreast seating. This was due to the chassis height not being low enough for a regular bus body within the restricted height limits. Bristol were first to come up with a better solution with the Lodekka but Leyland went a different way, moving the engine on to the rear platform and making the chassis more of a giant rear engined skateboard allowing the body to be of a more normal layout. Obviously the space on the rear platform could not contain the usual 0600 engine so a smaller 0350 engine was used instead. To regain the power deficit, a turbo was fitted to the engine. This combination of a small engine with a turbo made the powerpack quiet enough for it not to be that much of an issue, it only becoming a problem on the next development of the concept (The PDR1 Atlantean which is where we came in).

This idea of a queter running, smaller turbo engine has also allowed newer generations of chassis builders to get rid of the bustle and along with much better insulation has made travelling at the rear of one of these not the noisy experience of old.

In his Leyland Bus Mk2 book, Doug Jack mentioned an odd looking contraption that looked for all the world like the Upper Deck structure of a Leyland Body with wheels. 

The rear view shows a transverse engine and angle drive. 

If I remember correctly, this dated back to the 'thirties. An interesting prototype for sure! 👍 👍 👍 😎 😎 😎 

[Leyland Worldmaster]

7 minutes ago, Leyland Worldmaster said:

In his Leyland Bus Mk2 book, Doug Jack mentioned an odd looking contraption that looked for all the world like the Upper Deck structure of a Leyland Body with wheels. 

The rear view shows a transverse engine and angle drive. 

If I remember correctly, this dated back to the 'thirties. An interesting prototype for sure! 👍 👍 👍 😎 😎 😎 

I've found a link! 

https://zavanak.com/transport-topics/yellow-coach-720-735/

 

Enjoy! 😎

[busmansholiday]

Don't forget the B20 version of the DMS. A quite pack on the back to keep engine noise down, OK until a diesel or oil leak...

I suppose you'll want some B&W pics of Wulfronians in service .

[Leyland Worldmaster]

51 minutes ago, busmansholiday said:

Don't forget the B20 version of the DMS. A quite pack on the back to keep engine noise down, OK until a diesel or oil leak...

I suppose you'll want some B&W pics of Wulfronians in service .

Yes please! 👍 👍 👍 😎 😎 😎 

[willswitchengage]

16 hours ago, HarmonicCheeseburger said:

Howcome double deckers now have lost this rear hump?

They were only ever really a temporary thing on some of the first rear-engined DDs and at the time were a sensible idea with easy maintenance access, better cooling performance and better isolation of sound and heat from the saloon. With improvements in engines these requirements became less relevant over the years and the smooth aesthetics of an integrated body became of greater importance. Leyland's Titan was an interesting middle ground with a peephole at the rear. I believe there have been single-decker Atlantean conversions over the years but Google images isn't being a massive help!

[Leyland Worldmaster]

American bus shite:

https://zavanak.com/transport-topics/transbus/

[Leyland Worldmaster]

8 minutes ago, willswitchengage said:

They were only ever really a temporary thing on some of the first rear-engined DDs and at the time were a sensible idea with easy maintenance access, better cooling performance and better isolation of sound and heat from the saloon. With improvements in engines these requirements became less relevant over the years and the smooth aesthetics of an integrated body became of greater importance. Leyland's Titan was an interesting middle ground with a peephole at the rear. I believe there have been single-decker Atlantean conversions over the years but Google images isn't being a massive help!

I really need to drive one of these! Build is so tough, that for a while it cost more than scrap value to dismantle! 

Incidentally, the engine and gearbox are suspended from the Upper Deck floor structure and the coolant expansion tank is under the rearmost passenger seat on the offside. 

Odd, but doesn't suffer as badly from difficult cooling and heating system bleeding! 🤓

[willswitchengage]

And I think had indie front suspension too. That design really was full of innovation.

I might be talking total tosh here but wasn't there 'bus regionalism' back then? London for the Titan, the Midlands the Metrobus and Scotland the Ailsa.

[Leyland Worldmaster]

3 minutes ago, willswitchengage said:

And I think had indie front suspension too. That design really was full of innovation.

I might be talking total tosh here but wasn't there 'bus regionalism' back then? London for the Titan, the Midlands the Metrobus and Scotland the Ailsa.

As I may have mentioned before, the IFS lived on in Volvo B7L; B7TL; B10L and Volvo Super Olympian until the mid 2000's. 

As I understand it, Titan sales were limited by it's relatively inflexible design; 'Highbridge' only. It was a rather complex bus for it's time. 

Also, delays caused by industrial action at Park Royal Vehicles didn't help matters. Many orders were cancelled. 🤓

 

[busmansholiday]

3 minutes ago, willswitchengage said:

And I think had indie front suspension too. That design really was full of innovation.

I might be talking total tosh here but wasn't there 'bus regionalism' back then? London for the Titan, the Midlands the Metrobus and Scotland the Ailsa.

Not far off.

The Jocks liked simple, easy maintenance buses that preferably didn't have engines at the back.

Midlands well, if it was built there that was all that matters.

London, how fucking complicated can we make something that we can take to pieces at Aldenham.