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Deutz - smooth* and vibration free* 

To be honest, they sounded bloody great though. With no water jacket to quell the noise, those re-engined Guys were a little on the raucous side for passengers. Provincial were masters of rebuilding second hand Guys for their fleet using that engine coupled with new bodywork, sometimes utilising parts of the original body, sometimes not. Apart from a few one offs with other fleets, there was no larger Deutz engined bus fleet in the country.
 

The question,  100hp? Yes, thats about right for the time. The lower powered 5 pot Gardners of the era were less than that but what they lacked in horses, they gained in torque and that’s what you wanted to shift a weight around (albeit slowly).

Now you can get engines that provide more than twice the power with half the capacity. Torque isn’t so important with the advent of multi-ratio torque converter transmissions and the like.

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21 hours ago, Inspector Morose said:

Hang on. T1131? That was prototype No.5 (originally BCK706R)!

 

21 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

looks like it :)

image.thumb.png.9ffcab5b4428408b34cf0714f2fd0bb8.png

the plate change record is interesting because TMX535R is an age related plate given back in the 1993, and back then when you put on then took a private plate off a vehicle they did not give you the plate original  but just gave you an age related plate

I always wondered if you could claim back the originial plate (since it automatically just goes on retention and they obviously give it back these days when put on and take off a private plate) evidently it looks like you can :) 

(the plate history looks familiar I wonder if I have looked it up before...)

 

 

Blimey, it's a small world isn't it. That Titan ran in Southampton for a couple of months with Solent Blue Line, the only Titan to do so as far as I know. I have a picture of it somewhere but I've just spent 45 minutes looking for it and come up with nothing. It was in Windermere Avenue on the 160 or 170. I have thousands of photos up there and no real cataloguing system. It would have been 1987 or 88 as it was when we had the RMs. It looked this at the time:

529531746_John_Fishwick__Sons_bus_3_(BCK_706R)_1977_Leyland_Titan_B15_prototype_05.thumb.jpg.e00c3389e88f18367c13a91fe14ae504.jpg

I tried googling BCK706R Southampton and Blue Line but it came up with nothing. Which means I really should find it. It wasn't here long and Blue Line had a habit of acquiring weird demonstrators for a few weeks. Perhaps I need to publish my pictures of the Southampton bus wars (it's not all RMs) because I reckon I have more than anyone else. 

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I've admired this thread from afar for a while - who knew buses could be so interesting.

 

Does anyone have any pictures of Nu Venture buses that ran in the Medway Towns from 2004ish to 2010? Used to get those to school, Leyland Titans I believe. Many memories there.

I remember emailing them when I was 13 asking how much one was to buy - and it was around £1500. Crazy. Even wanted a shitey old bus back then.

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4 hours ago, SmokinWaffle said:

 

 

Does anyone have any pictures of Nu Venture buses that ran in the Medway Towns from 2004ish to 2010? Used to get those to school, Leyland Titans I believe. Many memories there.

I remember emailing them when I was 13 asking how much one was to buy - and it was around £1500. Crazy. Even wanted a shitey old bus back then.

Try here----https://www.flickr.com/groups/1863650@N20/pool/

 

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On 9/22/2020 at 8:49 PM, Inspector Morose said:

The prototypes seemed to have a charmed life with 2 still in existence, BCK being one of them. 

I'd love a look at the Southampton wars as that was one area that I didn't go and photograph during the 'fun' times - I concentrated on South Yorkshire with the Northern Bus REs!

I'll try and put a few pics together in the next few days. Looking back the variety was staggering compared to now (just First Bus and Blue Star/Unilink who are part of Go Ahead). Hopefully in the next week, I'm at a crucial point in the model railway which I need to finish first. 

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2 hours ago, Eyersey1234 said:

I can't remember if I have posted this or not but here's our Beverley Bar bus. VKH 44 is a Willowbrook bodied AEC Regent V complete with a roof designed to fit through the Beverley Bar, the only surviving medieval gateway into Beverley. 

IMG_20191102_111846.jpg

I was talking to @Mrs6C and someone else about those the other week but couldn't remember which town it was.

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Fitting buses under bridges used to bring out the creativity of bus builders with East Yorkshire taking top marks with their insistence on a bespoke roof profile right up to the rear engined era. (By the way, that EY Regent V above is a super rare exposed radiator variant with most having ‘tin’ fronts)

They were not the only ones though with North Western having lowered and specially profiled roofs to fit under awkward bridges. Today in the era of strict standardisation most double deck buses are one of two (or possibly three at a pinch) heights - full height at 14’ 6” or thereabouts or a lower height of 13’ 8”.

Llanelli once had a peculiar problem of especially low bridges on some of its routes necessitating the need for local operator South Wales ordering a batch of low height single deckers built on double deck Regent V chassis (they were generally lower built than the single deck variant).

FA1C15C3-4249-4DF0-970F-03B830EB3A00.jpeg.a3d9083b59c4694596176e8838ac0da8.jpeg

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39 minutes ago, Inspector Morose said:

Fitting buses under bridges used to bring out the creativity of bus builders with East Yorkshire taking top marks with their insistence on a bespoke roof profile right up to the rear engined era. (By the way, that EY Regent V above is a super rare exposed radiator variant with most having ‘tin’ fronts)

They were not the only ones though with North Western having lowered and specially profiled roofs to fit under awkward bridges. Today in the era of strict standardisation most double deck buses are one of two (or possibly three at a pinch) heights - full height at 14’ 6” or thereabouts or a lower height of 13’ 8”.

Llanelli once had a peculiar problem of especially low bridges on some of its routes necessitating the need for local operator South Wales ordering a batch of low height single deckers built on double deck Regent V chassis (they were generally lower built than the single deck variant).

FA1C15C3-4249-4DF0-970F-03B830EB3A00.jpeg.a3d9083b59c4694596176e8838ac0da8.jpeg

ohh thats a funky looking thing, weird to see such a "modern" looking half cab single decker, also reminds me of the arson attack victim RM1368 which replaced RM8 as the Chiswick test vehicle

image.png.f28a27c1ba0a040c491da818383ee6ce.png

(always wondered what the interior of RM1368 looked like. did/does it have seats and lighting? I remember asking someone many years ago and they said it just had the bench seats, but thats it, but that was many years ago and just word of mouth iv never actually seen any pictures sadly)

 

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Southampton Corporation had trams with a roof profile to fit under the Bargate. 

bargatetram.jpg.c482903a1c6bc9c5a016e24cf903185d.jpg

Dd8ohtoU0AACvGT.thumb.jpg.d33a7a876549b995ab6ff984f2270dad.jpg

Being a tram made it easier to get it right, I wonder if those East Yorkshire buses had some sort of guide because it looks like you'd only have a couple of inches either side. 

One of the above trams still exists in a shed down the docks. 

272750293_unnamed(2).jpg.e775ff7f628d4da6850f4bc9e5b84d7a.jpg

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1 hour ago, Yoss said:

Southampton Corporation had trams with a roof profile to fit under the Bargate. 

bargatetram.jpg.c482903a1c6bc9c5a016e24cf903185d.jpg

Dd8ohtoU0AACvGT.thumb.jpg.d33a7a876549b995ab6ff984f2270dad.jpg

Being a tram made it easier to get it right, I wonder if those East Yorkshire buses had some sort of guide because it looks like you'd only have a couple of inches either side. 

One of the above trams still exists in a shed down the docks. 

272750293_unnamed(2).jpg.e775ff7f628d4da6850f4bc9e5b84d7a.jpg

I know it took precision driving, I would imagine there would have been some sort of reference point so the drivers knew they were lined up right. A trick the conductors used to play was dropping something to make a bang as the bus went through. 

Hadn't known the trams in Southampton had special roofs, I wonder how many other places had vehicles specifically designed to fit somewhere 

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2 hours ago, Eyersey1234 said:

I wonder how many other places had vehicles specifically designed to fit somewhere 

Well, off the top of my head, there were the Bedford VALs that were built to fit under a canal bridge in Durham Massey.

3675439D-D95D-4C3F-87A1-0B9D606BDAD6.thumb.jpeg.36d55bdbfa1ea221f9f4a2b0c483aeec.jpeg

 

They were replaced by ECW bodied Bristol REs with a special roof profile.

205468CB-E184-4EE0-9D8B-972872807160.jpeg.8e9f25c0fd1c29f44db421df62761689.jpeg

WMPTE standard Fleetlines were not 14’6” high but built to a special height of 14’2” so they could fit under a number of slightly too low bridges in Birmingham. When the bus grant was introduced they had to lobby the government to  have this special height written into the eligibility specifications for the grant so they could qualify for it.

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22 hours ago, Six-cylinder said:

What have I seen this morning?

It was reversing out of a driveway in a village near Milton Keynes. I stopped to look properly but it ran away in the opposite direction and I did not have time to chase it.

IMG_20200923_112105 broad.jpg

I'm sure that's featured here before. If so, it's an early 60s Ford Duple Yeoman that's been knocking around north Bucks as a caravan for years. Extremely rare now and it must be one of only a handful of roadworthy examples.

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1 hour ago, quicksilver said:

I'm sure that's featured here before. If so, it's an early 60s Ford Duple Yeoman that's been knocking around north Bucks as a caravan for years. Extremely rare now and it must be one of only a handful of roadworthy examples.

That looks like the type, but I never saw the front.

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On 9/21/2020 at 10:16 PM, Inspector Morose said:

Hang on. T1131? That was prototype No.5 (originally BCK706R)!

I found the bugger. It was exactly where I thought it would be when I was looking for it the other day, except it wasn't there then! 

IMG_20200926_164129.thumb.jpg.3abfd8316920a12d2786c584ce2c5ece.jpg

It has very small Solent Blue Line stickers either side of the Leyland badge. Anyway, more Southampton bus wars to follow, as requested. 

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29 minutes ago, Yoss said:

I found the bugger. It was exactly where I thought it would be when I was looking for it the other day, except it wasn't there then! 

IMG_20200926_164129.thumb.jpg.3abfd8316920a12d2786c584ce2c5ece.jpg

It has very small Solent Blue Line stickers either side of the Leyland badge. Anyway, more Southampton bus wars to follow, as requested. 

Those look very similar to Fishwicks of Leylands colours.

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53 minutes ago, Yoss said:

Yes, it is. The bus was owned by Ensigns at the time, I think they were just loaning it out before they sold it back to London Buses. 

Cool. I've ridden on many a Fishwicks (probably been on that one).

They always had Leyland's back in the day as they were based in the same town.

Another independent that's now sadly gone.

 

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On 9/22/2020 at 8:49 PM, Inspector Morose said:

The prototypes seemed to have a charmed life with 2 still in existence, BCK being one of them. 

I'd love a look at the Southampton wars as that was one area that I didn't go and photograph during the 'fun' times - I concentrated on South Yorkshire with the Northern Bus REs!

Due to popular demand (one person mentioned it) here's some southampton bus wars stuff. 

Before it all kicked off Southampton looked like this. 

IMG_20200927_140416.thumb.jpg.8aaeb7180a494a29cb2faa179538b9ee.jpg

IMG_20200926_170322.thumb.jpg.79ed4620bdf1ca7ce499643a6a2f7666.jpg

Or this if they had received the new livery. 

IMG_20200927_140637.thumb.jpg.9983a0ca9162de33fb0db2d9febe489f.jpgIMG_20200926_170351.thumb.jpg.ec06e7dec70968c44052bc384e9aed84.jpg

There were three Olympians and one Dominator all with East Lancs bodywork on evaluation simply because they couldn't buy Atlanteans any more, if they could they would have carried on doing so. 

The outer suburban stuff was in the hands of Hampshire Bus who had just been split from Hants and Dorset (the other half becoming Wilts and Dorset but they play no part in this story). The one exception was the route 18 which for some historic reasons I don't recall was run by Hampshire Bus between the city and Thornhill. These looked like this. 

IMG_20200926_170442.thumb.jpg.a539a20b7b01c3d34fc6943e22ce6682.jpg

So the Routemasters weren't the first interlopers from London in the city. Now CityBus had their own route to Thornhill but it went a different way and the two ran for decades alongside with no problems. 

So when we mention Southampton bus wars this is what most people think of. 

IMG_20200927_140241.thumb.jpg.01bb29fab1329c952dd18af99799d079.jpg

IMG_20200927_140535.thumb.jpg.16d95d10b093696cdda2c4141e097192.jpg

But concurrent with all this, Hampshire Bus, now owned by Stagecoach, were having their own ideas. Stagecoach were obviously masters of going in and undercutting and driving the opposition out of business. So when this lot turned up at Barton Park, their Eastleigh depot, we thought for a little while that we were going to have a full Glasgow style RM on RM competition. IMG_20200927_132645.thumb.jpg.fb9b7fd74844c5000dd33f0a1d07254e.jpg

IMG_20200927_132713.thumb.jpg.69c0a9a71865baa3ff7bc167d53aab5e.jpg

But it never happened. The buses were painted at Barton Park but then disappeared off elsewhere in to the Stagecoach fleet. 

IMG_20200926_165115.thumb.jpg.1956846f4e15e2c66cb0b9b3a26db584.jpg

IMG_20200926_165138.thumb.jpg.4eb6289e427e2c4a000b2263c07df081.jpg

 

But what did happen we never saw coming. So what is that thing? 

IMG_20200927_132729.thumb.jpg.52a82c3373deb307a3bf7cfd7748f484.jpg

 

Find out in the next post... 

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It's an ex South Yorkshire Volvo Ailsa of course! Why pick these? No one will ever know. Surely VRs would make more sense as Hampshire bus staff would be more familiar with them. IMG_20200926_163810.thumb.jpg.b3d2ef16ab995f9990053bcd8e9d564d.jpg

CityBus responded with the route 23 so they were fighting Blue Line on one front and Hampshire Bus on the other, all three companies employing conductors to try and get an edge. 

Here's RM 1543 in the same spot, note matching Chevette. 

IMG_20200926_153706.thumb.jpg.6d1e8c41f5c74b23c277486569c82b13.jpg

And also bonus Escort Huntsman, a real rarity even then. 

A few more of the Volvos:

IMG_20200926_164052.thumb.jpg.b2004210005c8026c7a88341a4301eed.jpg

This one never quite got finished. In the company of the mobile shop, flat screen LH that drove out and parked here every day. 

IMG_20200926_163903.thumb.jpg.b85ebf45ac874865751ca2216b3f4b09.jpg

And here's a line of the Ailsas with a VW camper with a convertible Olympian roof added. Seems like a good idea, gives you a ready made awning when you get to the campsite. Wilts and Dorset had several of these convertible Olympians for the Bournemouth to Swanage route. 

IMG_20200926_165215.thumb.jpg.a80f55baf81b690310cca78cc0fcf017.jpg

This whole operation was quite short lived, as was the CityBus 23, for reasons that will become apparent soon as I haven't even got to Blue Line yet. 

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