Bus Shite

[SunnySouth]

11 hours ago, High Jetter said:

Lemon is Wolverhampton reg? I've seen Lemon buses round here, but not that one. Hailsham E. Sussex based? No trains from there now, sadly.

Far left, Wright Volvo single decker - presumably a 54 plater ex Poole Morebus, that’s Go Ahead London’s contract livery I believe?

[SunnySouth]

On 12/07/2025 at 11:49, 83C said:

Ah, the Solo. The end result of an internal competition at Optare to design the shittest vehicle possible.

You see I think they get a bad press! (I’m ducking behind the desk as I type this….) I used to think they were great little things, excellent fun to pilot!  Yeah they rattle and vibrate like fuck but then what didn’t in the early-ish 2000s?! I must admit that the super long ones always looked a bit of a challenge with the front wheels in the wrong place for a bus of that size, but the ‘normal’ sized ones I played on were fine! Other than one particular offender which was the most gutless machine I’ve ever driven, but the rest were alright!

[cms206]

1 hour ago, SunnySouth said:

Far left, Wright Volvo single decker - presumably a 54 plater ex Poole Morebus, that’s Go Ahead London’s contract livery I believe?

It is, Hailsham East Sussex; seems like a wasted effort taking EN15 as Go Ahead London announced that very afternoon that Hailsham outstation is closing next month... 

There were three of those 54-plate Volvos on site.

1 hour ago, SunnySouth said:

You see I think they get a bad press! (I’m ducking behind the desk as I type this….) I used to think they were great little things, excellent fun to pilot!  Yeah they rattle and vibrate like fuck but then what didn’t in the early-ish 2000s?! I must admit that the super long ones always looked a bit of a challenge with the front wheels in the wrong place for a bus of that size, but the ‘normal’ sized ones I played on were fine! Other than one particular offender which was the most gutless machine I’ve ever driven, but the rest were alright!

I was never a Solo fan, naff all room in the cab and it's very rare that you get one the cab seat goes high enough - I'm 6ft 3in and fairly well upholstered though 😂😂😂

I nearly wrote off the first one I drove, a then nearly new Cummins one which in retrospect was on ditchfinders I think - the crowd I work for now in Glasgow are predominantly an Optare operator and decent steer tyres really do make a difference to the roadholding.

[cms206]

1 hour ago, Inspector Morose said:

Ex-Dublin Bus Volvo B7/Alexander. That reg is some private plate that was related to its previous UK operator, Seaford and District (West Bromwich area code - think Jensen demonstrators).

Seaford and Big Lemon are apparantly one and the same now? According to the lad who ran my colleague and I to Polegate to get the train.

[83C]

Optares (both the Solo and preceding Excel) were worse for rattles than most late 90’s designs because of their stupid bolt on exterior panels. Yes, they were great for quickly swapping out mangled bits, but they made a godawful din even if the fixings were tight due to the flex in them. Part of that is down to the harsh ride, which is due to Optare trying to make it as low as possible - no room for soft, floaty long travel suspension to soak up the bumps so it all gets transmitted directly to the body.

Wheels forward design - shit when bus stop kerbs were being remade for forward entrance vehicles, and somehow despite all the extra length in front of the cab there was nowhere for the driver’s left foot. The drivers seat was also too low for anyone tall, knees up high was never good for posture. The front wheels being where they were also made them very understeery.

The original machines with Merc OM904s were seriously underpowered, the engine itself was great in an O814 Vario with the manual box but add another two tons of weight plus a shit Allison autobox and the results are not good. The later Cummins ISB6 did address the power issues to be fair, but really they should have been designed with that lump to start with. I can say from experience that an unrestricted M950 (WK59 CWX to be precise) would quite happily sit with the needle of the speedo pointing at the ‘a’ in ‘Optare’  at the 6 o’clock position.

On the subject of the powertrain - many Solos had the cooler group positioned on the nearside rear just behind the axle - perfect place to suck up all the shit, leaves, road grime etc and block the radiator, hastening the inevitable breakdown. Optare weren’t the first and certainly won’t be the last to hit upon this genius idea, but it definitely contributed to the overall shitness.

The stumpy Solos (M710) had the wonderful party trick of cutting power to the engine if the passenger door started to open - great* when driving in a crosswind. The fix for anyone unfortunate enough to still be driving one is to wedge a 500ml plastic bottle between the vertical hinge bar and the door/door frame which mostly stops the door flapping open. You do have to remove it each time you actually want to open the door though.

To be fair the Solo family and the variants that it spawned have been massively successful for Optare, around my way there are loads of Solos and Versas. The SR was a bit of an improvement, but ultimately an exercise in turd polishing.

[martc]

Lovely period picture of a North Eastern colliery village. That Fish and Chip van looks like it used to be a PSV, but what was it?

A Leyland Redline - is that just the chassis, or was a Redline the full thing, chassis and body?

[martc]

Mainly Ikarus's in this USSR depot, hussah!

[Knotty Ash Towers]

12 minutes ago, martc said:

A Leyland Redline - is that just the chassis, or was a Redline the full thing, chassis and body?

Leyland Redline is the DVLA 's 'umbrella' term for smaller Leyland truck chassis such as the Boxer & Terrier.  Larger Leyland truck & bus chassis were listed as Leyland Blueline by the DVLA. The bodywork is by Wadham Stringer.

[High Jetter]

7 hours ago, cms206 said:

Seaford and Big Lemon are apparantly one and the same now? According to the lad who ran my colleague and I to Polegate to get the train.

Not sure about that, Big Lemon apparently started in Brighton, with a bus running on waste cooking oil which i recall seeing occasionally. They now operate in Bristol and Bath, and have a coach company Brighton Horizon Coaches. Seaford & District seem to be offering some regular routes plus private hire, and have their fleet list here: https://seafordanddistrict.com/gallery/

[Yoss]

On 14/07/2025 at 00:27, cms206 said:

 

Traffic was fucking awful... over two hours to get there. But get there we did, and to my first bus of the day - one of the final pair of DOE class Enviro 400s which have now been decommissioned. My colleague (and former big boss when I ran the bus company years ago) and I collected DOE38 (him) and DOE40 (me) for the run down to Waterside Way.

... and reunited at Waterside Way with DOE48 and DOE54, also decommissioned and awaiting disposal.

 

 

😂

😂

We have several of these DOEs in Southampton. We had loads more at one point and I'm sure DOE 38 was one of them but I'm starting to wonder if my mind is playing tricks on me. But we've had two batches of new Enviro 400s since so their numbers have shrunk. 

Also, annoyingly, after running them for over a year with their DOE numbers, even after repaint in to Bluestar livery they renumbered them in to the 69xx range starting with DOE 2 being 6921. But there are big gaps in the numbers. 

So there are ten buses numbered between 6921 and 6941 and that last one is DOE 33 so I really don't know where I am with them now. I can only assume the missing numbers mean that the others are being used elsewhere in the Go South Coast fleet but that is just a presumption. 

They still look nice and shiny in their Bluestar colours though. 

[Leyland Worldmaster]

8 hours ago, 83C said:

On the subject of the powertrain - many Solos had the cooler group positioned on the nearside rear just behind the axle - perfect place to suck up all the shit, leaves, road grime etc and block the radiator, hastening the inevitable breakdown.

Some years ago I worked for a firm that ordered a couple of Slimlines with MAN engines.

They had to serve a route with roads barely wider than them.

For the reasons you mentioned, I found myself sitting at a bus stop with the dashboard full of red warning lights and interestingly a boiling sound coming from the Expansion Tank.

They went like fuck though. Not that we could use that on the fucking lanes.

 

 

[Yoss]

On 11/07/2025 at 20:47, SunnySouth said:

Not the world’s most exciting photo, but following the recent unfortunate incident of one of Bluestar’s ex-Brum E400s ending up in a river, I was pleased to see that the rest of them are alive and well - here are a pair of them in Chandler’s Ford on college runs. 1269 is at the back; the ‘marine incursion’ victim was 1267.

I saw one of these the very next day in Shirley so they obviously weren't too concerned that it could happen again. We don't get many of these in Shirley. I'm guessing now they've taken over the ex First Bus depot in Bevois Valley that most Shirley route buses come from there rather than Barton Park. 

I see 1267 has permanently disappeared. I mean you'd imagine it would be scrapped but sometimes they are kept on the books while they assess the damage or wait for insurance or whatever, but no, it's already gone. 

[cms206]

Today's job was cancelled... then I picked up a bus move... then another... and another.

1pm phonecall - head to the Major Unit Centre at River Road and collect SE284 from refurbishment; this has been a major midlife overhaul including conversion from ZF to Allison transmission.

The MUC is quite the facility and provides mechanical and accident damage repairs, along with aircon services - these are the busiest people.

Ticked off another two DELs, 25 and 26.

These are not bad things.

Tomorrow's job is now what was originally today's job - Northumberland Park to Eastleigh with Ee-class Enviro 400 electrics for refurbishment for the  forthcoming Bakerloop service BL1 and return with MHV-class Volvos.

[mk2_craig]

8 hours ago, cms206 said:

major midlife overhaul including conversion from ZF to Allison transmission.

Was that one of those things with some sort of automated manual transmission? 

[quicksilver]

Why is that modern buses suffer such horrific rattles and vibrations? I had the misfortune of catching one of Arriva's 12-plate Wright Pulsars last week. I don't know what was wrong with it but it had the most godawful loud vibration that sounded and felt like someone was using a jackhammer inside the bus and was set off by the slightest bump so it was basically constant. I spent most of the journey with my fingers in my ears, got off a couple of stops early as it was preferable to walk a bit further than subject myself to any more of that racket, and had a pounding headache all the next day that was so bad I had to cancel my plans. Frankly I don't think it should have been in service as it was so unpleasant to travel on.

[cms206]

6 hours ago, mk2_craig said:

Was that one of those things with some sort of automated manual transmission? 

It was, effectively a 7?-speed version of the 12-speed automated manual found in lorries and coaches; they've been converting the batch that were on the 170 during refurbishment.

[Zelandeth]

2 hours ago, cms206 said:

It was, effectively a 7?-speed version of the 12-speed automated manual found in lorries and coaches; they've been converting the batch that were on the 170 during refurbishment.

Had the misfortune of the opportunity to drive a brand new Volvo B7R coach with that gearbox - I have rarely wanted to scream obscenities about a piece of automotive hardware that much.  Fine on the motorway, but around town it was absolutely painful.  If you can't change gear quicker, more smoothly or have a better idea which gear I want to be in than I do, just let me do it myself.  

I'm sure they're set up for economy, but you're in about fourth or fifth gear by the time you're at walking pace - with a pause of the best part of a second between gears.  It was *painfully* ponderous trying to drive around town.  Getting into gaps in traffic simply wasn't possible.  For something purely for city use that type of setup would have driven me insane.

[83C]

Another version of iShit then? I’m fairly sure that on the 12-speed versions it would be quicker to get out, remove and strip the gearbox, manually move the selector forks to the next gear, reassemble it and re-install in the vehicle than leave the automated bit to change gear. I’m very glad I don’t have to deal with that nonsense these days. 

[Leyland Worldmaster]

3 hours ago, cms206 said:

It was, effectively a 7?-speed version of the 12-speed automated manual found in lorries and coaches; they've been converting the batch that were on the 170 during refurbishment.

They were fucking shite. And anything that needs a fucking information booklet to help learn to use it is a major warning sign.

Wasn't there a statement somewhere about good design not needing explanation?

Probably really good for motorway and inter-urban work but utterly fucking appalling when tasked with moving through narrow gaps in estate caused by cunty parking.

Ideally one wants to be controlling speed with brakes as opposed to a river dance like bit of footwork to balance a temperamental transmission with an on\off clutch system.

[New POD]

9 hours ago, quicksilver said:

Why is that modern buses suffer such horrific rattles and vibrations? I had the misfortune of catching one of Arriva's 12-plate Wright Pulsars last week. I don't know what was wrong with it but it had the most godawful loud vibration that sounded and felt like someone was using a jackhammer inside the bus and was set off by the slightest bump so it was basically constant. I spent most of the journey with my fingers in my ears, got off a couple of stops early as it was preferable to walk a bit further than subject myself to any more of that racket, and had a pounding headache all the next day that was so bad I had to cancel my plans. Frankly I don't think it should have been in service as it was so unpleasant to travel on.

Are they using a chassis designed for a truck?  

[Leyland Worldmaster]

13 hours ago, quicksilver said:

Why is that modern buses suffer such horrific rattles and vibrations? I had the misfortune of catching one of Arriva's 12-plate Wright Pulsars last week. I don't know what was wrong with it but it had the most godawful loud vibration that sounded and felt like someone was using a jackhammer inside the bus and was set off by the slightest bump so it was basically constant. I spent most of the journey with my fingers in my ears, got off a couple of stops early as it was preferable to walk a bit further than subject myself to any more of that racket, and had a pounding headache all the next day that was so bad I had to cancel my plans. Frankly I don't think it should have been in service as it was so unpleasant to travel on.

A comparatively floppy structure mated to short- travel suspension- with relatively high un-sprung mass. 

[mk2_craig]

14 hours ago, Leyland Worldmaster said:

They were fucking shite. And anything that needs a fucking information booklet to help learn to use it is a major warning sign.

Wasn't there a statement somewhere about good design not needing explanation?

Probably really good for motorway and inter-urban work but utterly fucking appalling when tasked with moving through narrow gaps in estate caused by cunty parking.

Ideally one wants to be controlling speed with brakes as opposed to a river dance like bit of footwork to balance a temperamental transmission with an on\off clutch system.

What was the point of them then? Fuel economy? 

[Zelandeth]

8 hours ago, Leyland Worldmaster said:

A comparatively floppy structure mated to short- travel suspension- with relatively high un-sprung mass. 

The wheels being several inches smaller than they used to be in the interest of saving both weight and cost doesn't help either.

[Leyland Worldmaster]

5 hours ago, mk2_craig said:

What was the point of them then? Fuel economy? 

I think it was something to do with that as well as emissions and a Government grant.

Can't remember now though.

[cms206]

... and the final day was yesterday.

First stop, Northumberland Park with a colleague to collect BYD Enviro 400EVs Ee38 & Ee39 to go to Hants & Dorset Trim at Eastleigh for refurbishment; these are the first of 12 which will end up at Waterloo (and allegedly eventually at New Cross) for the forthcoming Bakerloop service BL1, in a chocolate brown version of the Superloop livery - you heard it here first.

Not much to see outside at Eastleigh, with a handful of former 358-allocated MEC-class Citaros for Oxford and SE287, another of the 170-batch of ZF sneezymatic Enviro 200s now refurbished and converted to Allison transmission.

Steed for the way back was freshly outshopped MCV-bodied Volvo B5LH hybrid MHV53; these also have a variant of i-Shift automated manual transmission too, as I think all B5LHs have. I'm a big fan of the type though this was my first with MCV bodywork. It was returning to Northumberland Park.

... and that draws to a close this three week stint. Not sure when I'll be back - I think possibly October, but nothing in stone yet.

Got home at stupid o'clock last night, back to normality tomorrow.

[Leyland Worldmaster]

4 all u driverz, innit:

https://www.route-one.net/news/union-coach-and-bus-drivers-can-refuse-to-work-in-extreme-heat/

[Remspoor]

On 18/07/2025 at 18:24, Leyland Worldmaster said:

4 all u driverz, innit:

https://www.route-one.net/news/union-coach-and-bus-drivers-can-refuse-to-work-in-extreme-heat/

So air con does not work? Southern Spain often get outside temps but drivers (and passengers) stay cool because of air con.

[jon.k]

I was pretty pleased to get a ride on this today when it was being used as a shuttle bus. The driver said that it’s in regular use on schools and other trips too. 

[83C]

40 minutes ago, Remspoor said:

So air con does not work? Southern Spain often get outside temps but drivers (and passengers) stay cool because of air con.

I don’t know what it’s like these days but towards the end of my days in the bus industry if we’d suggested that A/C was a good idea for both staff and passenger comfort we’d have been laughed out of the depot. The ex-London ALX400s with cab cooling had it disabled on arrival on the basis that if it didn’t work we couldn’t refuse to take other vehicles that didn’t have it.

[Gaffer]

Not quite buses but a couple years ago I got started with one of the councils maintaining the aircon on their bin lorries as the union had stepped in and said the aircon had to work or they could refuse to take the truck. Of course out of 30+ only a handful worked.

We’ve been in there every year keeping on top of them but a new batch of trucks is due soon, I’ve heard rumoured to be without aircon so the drivers can’t complain and knock them when it fails.