Bus Shite

[320touring]

This is one of my favourite threads.... I know close to nothing about buses, I've got a bit of an idea about old Nottingham stuff but only because I get giddy when I recognise a local machine in preservation.

 

The information you lot have tucked away is immense. There's a life story in every post just about and it's a fascinating read about warring operators, experiments, bodged repairs, lost axles (!) and stuff.

You really must come to a Scotoshite when FPB7 is attending:)

 

As you say much knowledge abounds from this lot

[Pillock]

Does he bring PowerPoint? Is there a test at the end?

[320touring]

Does he bring PowerPoint? Is there a test at the end?

Only if you want..

[rml2345]

Both could be arranged with minimum effort if you're keen. Dave2K may even explain Voith gearboxes if we've time.

[MorrisItalSLX]

I also know the square root of fuck all about buses, but I too love this thread!

 

These are the two that took me to school every day:

 

 

A Custom Coaches bodied Leyland Leopard, complete with a green vinyl and plastic wood interior!

 

 

Another Custom Coaches body, but this time on a Nissan Diesel chassis with a blue vinyl and plastic wood interior.

 

 

We also got this little Hino thing on occasion, it was shit. Noisey and smokey with red cloth seats that made you itchy and dusty. Plus it was the size of a postage stamp with no where near enough seats for the number of kids being transported.

 

I think only the Leyland survives now, in the hands of a local enthusiast.

 

Bus company was/is Kennedy's Bus and Coach for those who are interested.

[Pillock]

Both could be arranged with minimum effort if you're keen. Dave2K may even explain Voith gearboxes if we've time.

Do we have time? I'm 40 next year.

[busmansholiday]

Not only do I know who owns that rebuilt ex Tracky Leopard, but we hired it for a trip around YTC depots and some other operators when it was new. It certainly had some drivers looking twice as Nationals were the "new" bus then.

 

The Strathclyde rebodies were also Tracky inspired as they owned them at the time, as well as Lincolnshire. East Lancs were their 'best buddies' at that time. They had a batch of ex airport Scanias rebodied as well as coming up with the American Spartan single deck with their body. This would have been great had the exchange rate not gone tits, they even got the bloke behind the Ward chassis to sort the steering out so it went around corners.

[Felly Magic]

They also had an ex Arriva Yorkshire West Scania Vanhool Alizee  rebodied by East Lancs after it's body was destroyed by fire, I think it was M56AWW. They also had Keith Ward's last creation, the KIRN Mogul, which had been touted as a low cost bus, that had sat in chassis form at ELCB for quite some time when Frank Carter thought that would make a nice addition to the Tracky fleet. Tracky always were a very interesting company, with plenty of 'home brew' stuff, such as their wrecker fleet, which included several deckers chopped down over the years, including the new to Longstaff of Mirfield LWB AN68/Northern Counties, and even a Mk2 National tow bus. Their workshop was a source of GRP panels for Nationals including bumpers, emergency door and front dome that are now fitted to WR XUA73X. 

[busmansholiday]

They also spent / wasted a fortune rebuilding shagged Olympians. The one that twatted the bridge at Swinton was rebuilt by buying a newer ex West Yorkshire one and fitting the top deck to it when putting the WY one in service would probably have been cheaper.

 

They are sadly missed.

[Felly Magic]

They did buy a roof from one of the Barnsley yards for that, turns out it was from either a Titan or Roe body, and didn't fit, so they ended up buying another bus as a donor. Not sure whether the rumours were true about Frank Carter, but it was said that he liked to go on holiday to Skeg-Vegas, and would occasionally do the odd duty for the Road Car depot there. West Riding also were unusual for a while, and built a Lynx body at Belle Isle from an Airfix kit sent down from Workington, that bus was dead easy to spot as it had high mounted rear indicators, they also had the only dual door mk1 Lynx, which was hastily modified to single door before entering service. 

[jon.k]

Can someone explain why a few years ago the operators local to me did a kind of reverse of this by fitting crappy light clusters and blanking off the big rear lights on their paramounts? I remembered it because I also saw a few panoramas with the paramount lights retrofitted.

 

Loving the waste-not-want-not element of this thread.

[Felly Magic]

The last of the line Supremes had Paramount style rears, and I've seen quite a few Paramounts with tiny LED rear light units fitted, no doubt it boils down to cost & ease of replacement

[busmansholiday]

Just look at the rear of one of the older nasy express Caetano bodied things. A proxy small led sidelight, God knows how they got away with it.

As for Frank, have heard that before, also his initials, FAC, were on his Jag. Generally referred to by some of his employees as fat, arrogant, ....

[quicksilver]

Can someone explain why a few years ago the operators local to me did a kind of reverse of this by fitting crappy light clusters and blanking off the big rear lights on their paramounts? I remembered it because I also saw a few panoramas with the paramount lights retrofitted.

 

Loving the waste-not-want-not element of this thread.

Mostly likely because Paramount lights are unobtainum and they got broken. Such improvisation is the lifeblood of the smaller operator when it makes the difference between a vehicle being on the road earning money or sat in the yard VOR. See also all those operators who keep dead stock at the back of the yard as spares donors.

[sierraman]

Operators always had at least half a dozen canabalised old coaches at the back in varying states of disrepair.

[busmansholiday]

Operators always had at least half a dozen canabalised old coaches at the back in varying states of disrepair.

And some of them had a distinct lack of reg or vin plates. One I remember was an operator who had some ex South Yorks Metrobuses. What they didn't realise was South Yorks put the fleet numbers in small print on the top deck.

Then there was another operator who didn't know about East Kents fleet numbers and then there's an original MkI National in a book that was a 'B' type when built

[sierraman]

Why did they do that?

[Inspector Morose]

There are times within a coaches life when they are too worn or old to be on the front line of tour work but the vehicle has much life yet to give. A new body may be the answer to give the outward appearance of a new coach but it is expensive and sometimes it's just as sensible to just buy new. So then what can you do with the old one? Well if your outfit dabbles in stage carriage work, why not use it s last years for this purpose? Well there are many reasons, one being no easy way for the drive to open the (usually manual - I'm talking a few years back here) heavy door at every stop then collect the fares from the passengers as they arrive at the mountain top of narrow steps.

Well if you were Harper Brothers of Heath Hayes, you employed a talented bodybuilder called Maj. Maj could build, rebuild or modify anything put in front of her and the task of rebuilding an ex frontline Burlingham Seagul bodied coach into something more suitable for stage carriage work for as little money as possible, she set to work and came up with this:

 

 

What was lacking in aesthetics was found in practicality. Here was something given a new lease of life instead of being carted off to scrap and more money wasted. Maj then rebuilt the front of another Seagull in a less dramatic fashion after an accident then as an encore built a brand new body using frames from Metal Sections of oldbury, the same supplier of BMMO body parts. The tale goes was when she was building this, she used to pop to Cannock bus station and measure up a BMMO bus (usually an S14) waiting for time on the stand to get the dimensions right. The result was a body very much like its red painted brethren mounted upon an ex coach Leyland Royal Tiger chassis.

 

 

Waste not want not, as they say.

[dollywobbler]

Can someone explain why a few years ago the operators local to me did a kind of reverse of this by fitting crappy light clusters and blanking off the big rear lights on their paramounts? I remembered it because I also saw a few panoramas with the paramount lights retrofitted.

 

Loving the waste-not-want-not element of this thread.

 

Glad I'm not the only one with the Paramount obsession. Always fascinated me how such enormous lamps could put out so little light. Smoked lenses properly a 1980s thing. I do find it sad when they get 'facelifted,' even if it is for sensible business reasons.

[83C]

Today I was driving this:

 

 

R900 DTT is a Volvo Olympian with Northern Counties Palatine bodywork. Collected from West Kent Buses in Wrotham and delivered to Winkleigh. Not a bad old steer for a 6hr drive, the D10A Volvo lump and ZF gearbox are just right.

[busmansholiday]

Why did they do that?

If you mean swop id's, look at it this way. You have a fucked bus with a long ticket (MoT) and an identical one with no ticket. Get the one with no ticket tested or swop the plates. Much the same as Land Rovers and old Minis these days.

[Guest Hooli]

If you mean swop id's, look at it this way. You have a fucked bus with a long ticket (MoT) and an identical one with no ticket. Get the one with no ticket tested or swop the plates. Much the same as Land Rovers and old Minis these days.

 

A coach company that run the school buses I rode to senior school did similar. I'm not sure to this day if they swapped the working suspension or the VIN/numberplates around a fleet of four identical coaches, but it was damn easy to tell which one had an MOT last as it was the only one that sat level.

[busmansholiday]

OK. Who can get me more info on my VAL?

I am looking for the side trims as on this photo to get it painted back to original. I also see from this photo that it did originally have 4 opening windows. The NSF is now lane glass with no sliders.

"Golden Hind" New to Golden Key Coaches -Morgan, Bognor Regis, Kim Sandown, Kingfisher Tours Royton, and Abbeyways Halifax ("Kirkstall Princess")before I acquired her.

 

I don't do Bookface or Twater but was on the Bedford Owners Group on Yahoo before it went quiet. I had secured some side trim from a yard near Stoke so must read back to see who that was...

 

Golden Key Image.jpg

The top sliders will be a twat to get because as I replied earlier from my mate Maurice, only Southdown were the other operator to have these. My guess is the NSF has been replaced with a standard glass. It may be a case of having to live with it.

You could try Plaxtons at South Anston (near Sheffield) but I wouldn't hold my breath. Also try local bus museums (not sure where you are) as they may have contacts who 'know a man ' sort of thing.

[83C]

I might know a man who either has them or the contacts to find them, i’ve pinged him an email.

[busmansholiday]

A firm I worked for had a Panorama I Reliance which sometimes* had to be used on one man operations. Thing was it had no power door or ticket machine fittings. The ticket machine sat on the floor by the handbrake and the cash bag was tied to the front hand rail. As for the door, well there was a piece of rope to the handle. Approaching the stop you pulled on the rope then braked suddenly at the stop. This caused the door to fly open. To close you simply dropped the clutch violently to make the front jump up. Not popular with the punters...

 

Suppose I'd better not mention the episode with said coach when the wipers failed....

[Guest Hooli]

 

Suppose I'd better not mention the episode with said coach when the wipers failed....

 

Which reminds me of sitting in the depot awaiting a working bus for my shift. Got to the last run of the morning & they found* a shitty old decker that had just come out the workshop that I could take out after it went through the wash. I rode through the wash in it chatting to the shunter I knew & laughed as the wash twisted the wiper arms together so they stood out like an arch in front of the bus.

 

I then went home for lunch & came back later for the other half the shift.

[busmansholiday]

Our bus wash wasn't that bad, but it could fuck the roof windows if you left them up.

 

No this particular vehicle had electric wipers and the motor was under the front dash which you had to open to change the blinds (remember it's a coach,). Well, on one occasion, and I wasn't guilty this time, they failed when it was pissing it down. Fortunately a friend* was on board so the panel was opened, a seat cushion placed on the floor and said friend* was told to put both arms into the panel and move the linkage side to side. Comments of 'faster' weren't appreciated, (and I may* have been a witness to this little escaped).

[Zelandeth]

Our bus wash wasn't that bad, but it could fuck the roof windows if you left them up.

 

No this particular vehicle had electric wipers and the motor was under the front dash which you had to open to change the blinds (remember it's a coach,). Well, on one occasion, and I wasn't guilty this time, they failed when it was pissing it down. Fortunately a friend* was on board so the panel was opened, a seat cushion placed on the floor and said friend* was told to put both arms into the panel and move the linkage side to side. Comments of 'faster' weren't appreciated, (and I may* have been a witness to this little escaped).

Reminds me of a similar incident that involved a Bedford Y series when the throttle failed in the middle of nowhere.

 

I definitely did not spend a significant portion of that journey dangling through the access batch with a bit of string (shoe lace actually) tied to the throttle arm on the fuel pump.

 

We totally did not drive the 15 miles back to the depot in this configuration.

 

We also were totally not proud of the fact that both the person who definitely wasn't me and the driver were able to complete this with zero drama, and even make reasonably elegant work of double declutching.

 

Again...any resemblance to persons living or dead is entirely coincidental...

 

Another bus (TKS666T) had pneumatic wipers and was forever detaching the pantograph on the nearside, invariably ending up with the arms tangling together. That was eventually resolved with a cable tie one day when the driver lost patience with it, at some point that got electric wipers fitted. ...and about a month later suffered from terminal overheating. That bus was a problem child the whole time I knew it.

[Felly Magic]

Some motors are like that, no matter how much workshop time & money spent on them, they still are unreliable piles of crap, then you have motors that look absolute nails, and they never break down. I remember a Dennis Javelin Plaxton Excalibur where I worked that loved breaking down, and something was clearly wrong with the front end, as it went through 3 windscreens in under a month, after the third screen went, it was sidelined for local work only until fresh steel was welded around the front

[83C]

Its funny how theoretically identical vehicles can behave so differently, and other vehicles just be total problem children. 

 

Swanbrook-T35CNN-Cheltenham-081204a by Michael Wadman, on Flickr

 

The most memorable problem child that I know of was a Scania L94IB/Irizar InterCentury - T35 CNN. If it could go wrong, it did. It only stayed at Swanbrook for a couple of years (2004-07), they offloaded it after replacing the gearbox, engine, turbo, a/c (twice!), had the roof resealed, and numerous other smaller things. When it worked it went like hell, but it frequently spent time awaiting parts. It went from there to Liddells, Auchinleck, who apparently don't usually sell anything but sold this in 2011 to a firm in Builth Wells who didn't keep it long, then it went in early 2012 to Invincible Coaches in Tamworth, then to Murgatroyd Coaches in Harrogate before it went to Keith Jones in South Wales in mid 2013. At some point it was taken off the road but has recently been acquired by CT Coaches in Bath and is now back in use. 

 

The batch of 60-odd Varios at Western Greyhound were good examples of how vehicles age differently - certain ones were known 'good' vehicles - 500 and 522 immediately spring to mind as good motors, 500 was withdrawn 5 times but kept getting re-instated - each time after a load of new parts were fitted due to it being cannibalised to keep the rest of the fleet going. There were also known 'bad' vehicles such as 560 which was an absolute HOS, not unreliable as such but it rattled like a skeleton wanking in a biscuit tin whilst having all the get up and go of a heavily drugged sloth.