Bus Shite

[Yoss]

Impressive to see two Regents with such close registrations.  Looks like someone has rescued a P&R Dart there too.

 

Yes that Dart is now preserved. I personally can't see why you'd want one but it takes all sorts and it's good that someone is taking on the newer stuff. I say newer stuff but it's an N reg which makes it about 1995 which makes me feel rather old. My RM was 25 when we first bought it and it seemed really old at the time. This is now 23 and doesn't seem old at all. But then I was only 20 then and now I'm not! Just goes to show that time is a relative concept and nothing is real.

 

 

It is an ex Southampton CityBus one so it fits in with the rest of the buses there. It's probably quite rare (Though I'm no Dart expert) as it's not a low floor bus.

[Vantman]

Yes that Dart is now preserved. I personally can't see why you'd want one but it takes all sorts and it's good that someone is taking on the newer stuff. I say newer stuff but it's an N reg which makes it about 1995 which makes me feel rather old. My RM was 25 when we first bought it and it seemed really old at the time. This is now 23 and doesn't seem old at all. But then I was only 20 then and now I'm not! Just goes to show that time is a relative concept and nothing is real.

 

 

It is an ex Southampton CityBus one so it fits in with the rest of the buses there. It's probably quite rare (Though I'm no Dart expert) as it's not a low floor bus.

 

I have an illustrated genuine Dennis Dart parts manual if the owner is in need of one?

[Guest Hooli]

Darts go sideways really easily on wet concrete floors near bus washes....

[sierraman]

I miss the sound of those old Nationals, I think the ones Yorkshire Terror used still had the 510 in them. They had a massive fleet of them.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't The Port of Dover use a load of ex London Nationals until recently?

[lanciamatt]

All Barnsley and District nationals has the 510 still in. But another bus company started up in Barnsley, I think called jowetts or headlight bus company. There were nationals but all were re engined

[lanciamatt]

Another memorable coach experience was the other year, me and my gf were in holiday in Croatia and we went on a day trip to mostar in Bosnia. Shortly after crossing border in Bosnia we stopped fir toilet break in a road side cafe type place. Everyone came off our coach and went to lav etc. I could hear a noise in distance getting louder which rose my curiosity levels. I said to my other half that something was coming that sounded a bit beefy she wasn't remotely interested as I'd pointed out about a 1000 old yugos already. Next thing everyone turned round, a 1980s setra came past doing about 90 overtaking on wrong side of road smoke bellowing out of back sounded awsome

[busmansholiday]

All Barnsley and District nationals has the 510 still in. But another bus company started up in Barnsley, I think called jowetts or headlight bus company. There were nationals but all were re engined

Neil Oldfield bought half a dozen ex Western SMT Y type Leopards. He kept the best for his firm, Aldham Coaches and flogged the rest to Tom Jowett who was based at Tankersley. Both competed with Trackie on different routes. Tom moved the buses down to Low Valley, next to Aldham Coaches and eventually started replacing the Leopards with Nationals before selling out to Trackie. They renamed it B&D and expanded and moved to Wakefield Road. I was on the Kex service with Aldham (we had a National, I think they are shite) the Sunday FAC gave Tom's staff the news. Boy were they pissed off.

[Yoss]

Took the bus to Alton rally at the weekend. I know there's a lot of anti Routemaster feeling on here so here's some pics.

 

Random shiny Routemaster.

 

Random shiny Routemaster.

 

Autoshite members unshiny Routemaster.

 

Includes lots of flaking and bubbly paint.

 

And half the seats are unusable because it also makes a useful shed.

 

 

 

 

More Autoshite friendly buses to follow...

[Yoss]

This made me smile parked in amongst the bigger buses and their survival rate must be close to zero.

So good on whoever has preserved this. And it really did look tidy.

 

Metrobus Olympian if that makes sense.

 

Nice RE coach though I wonder how good the aircon is in this weather.

 

Tatty looking Titan with Emsworth and District fleetnames.

 

Couple of ex London Metrobuses together.

 

There was a time when the Alton rally was practically the Leyland National owners club national (pun very much intended). There would be dozens there. These seem to have dried up recently. I don't think I saw more than five.

I think this may be that people were buying them straight out of service for a few hundred pounds. Most of those have now failed MOT or just broken and are now lying around yards and barns around the country or are already scrapped.

 

 

And I'll leave you with this.

It always struck me as odd that LT could use black number plates until the mid 80s. These rear ones have translucent numerals with a light behind but in damp conditions the outer perspex panel would steam up making them unreadable. The front ones weren't even real number plates, just a bit of ally painted black with white transfers on. Many of them kept these plates when sold on (see the Emsworth Titan above) even though these smaller companies would never have been allowed to buy a bus new with these plates.

[Inspector Morose]

One of the weird anomalies of the PSV world was that white on black number plates were permitted until the last style change, I believe. Although perfectly legal across the country, only London (and Edinburgh, I believe) perpetuated with this style.

The black painted aluminium plates had the numbers painted on, using a stencil set before the ubiquitous vinyl lettering took over.

I looked into this when we bought a shit tonne of ex London short nationals for operation way back when. A good few came with black front plates but yellow rears and I wondered if that was legal out of London - it was!

[LightBulbFun]

very nice shots im surprised iv not been lynched to death around here considering my profile picture

 

 the inside shots reminds me of a Routemaster I once hitchhike on once where the owner popped out one of the seat cushions the resulting empty seat frame then made for a perfect spare wheel holder 

 

I have also wondered about how LT got away with using white on black plates for so long after everyone else had to switch over, but I never knew that the rear ones on some buses where backside illuminated thats pretty cool

 

(as I come from an LT bus background so to speak rather then a car background, I used to think think ALL white on black plates where meant to be just a bit of whatever painted black with white transfers on and id always get annoyed when I saw otherwise on anything else!,  I still do get annoyed when its a Routemaster with the wrong (style) reg plates..., esp if it has those awful silver on black plates those dont look good at all on RMs, at least I have never seen an RT disgraced with such a set...)

 

EDIT:

 

thanks for the info FPB7 (your post only showed up on my end when i clicked send on my message whoops...)

[Inspector Morose]

  I still do get annoyed when its a Routemaster with the wrong (style) reg plates...,

 

Good job you didn't live up north then..

 

[Inspector Morose]

Oh and, well, just because....

 

[LightBulbFun]

I knew of the Wearsider but what is the un-godly awful contraption next to it?! we need a puke emoticon on here I think!...

[busmansholiday]

I think (probably wrong) that HGVs were also allowed black and white plates until the last change but nobody actually did that. The Alexander Regent V I used to be involved in had backlighted rear black and white reg plates. Only problem I remember was the technicallity that your not allowed to display white lights to the rear. Think there was some exemption in one of the rules allowing this.

As for Leyland Nationals, the less the better!

[busmansholiday]

The thing to the left is the Tynesider. A 27 foot PD2 rear entrance that was rebuilt to see what could be done in terms of one man operation. Not only have I driven it (semi auto but no power steering ) it was preserved last time I knew.

Somewhere I have a picture of it on it's first outing at a bus rallly in 1972/3 ish.

[Inspector Morose]

As for Leyland Nationals, the less the better!

You are dead to me.

[Inspector Morose]

Not only have I driven it (semi auto but no power steering )

You are now more dead to me.

[LightBulbFun]

haha (liked for humor not National hate, I dont have much of an opinion either way on those... what does that make me to you then?  )

 

I once read that the Wearsider had some messed up steering linkages which made it a bit fun to drive apparently...

[mk2_craig]

One of the weird anomalies of the PSV world was that white on black number plates were permitted until the last style change, I believe. Although perfectly legal across the country, only London (and Edinburgh, I believe) perpetuated with this style.

The black painted aluminium plates had the numbers painted on, using a stencil set before the ubiquitous vinyl lettering took over.

I moved to Edinburgh in 1997 and there was still a batch of X-reg Atlanteans in service, these all had reflective white front plates but the backlit black rear plate as described.

 

Over in Dublin a few years later and there were lots of double deck buses built well into the 1990s with black rear plates, though presumably legislation was or is not necessarily identical to the UK.

[quicksilver]

That Mazda is epic. There can't even be many vans left so a PSV version must be unique now. Quite a few firms had them back in the day but they didn't last long and I've never seen one, nor even many photos of them.

[Felly Magic]

Nice to see another Robin Hood bodied Daily preserved, driven another preserved example belonging to friends of mine up north

[busmansholiday]

It's a close call as to which was the worst to drive, a Mk I National or the Tynesider.

 

MkI Nationals had absolutely no feel in the steering, and the early ones were shit scaring if the road was in any way damp. Plenty ended up in walls, ditches etc. I'd far rather have had a Swift, Panther or RE. The MkII was a better machine, but.

 

The Tynesider had an Atlantean dash system and wheel, but no power steering made it heavy. It's also odd having a bonnet sticking out in front of you.

 

I'll try not to get too upset about other people's views.

[Yoss]

Well, thanks for the replies about number plates. I've learnt something there. I just assumed it was LT being a law unto themselves again. My number plates are hand painted because I did it myself. The transfers started dissolving and it seemed the easiest way to re do them.

 

As for Nationals, I used to hate them at the time. The basic wipe clean interiors just seemed awful compared to our local Atlanteans. But these days I seem quite pleased to see them for some reason. A bit like songs you hated in the 80s seem to sound better when you hear them on the radio now. I guess it's because they remind you of your youth. But rose tinted, nostalgia etc... It only reminds of the good bits.

 

I liked the Mazda too. It was being largely ignored by the general bus cranks but it's only when you see one you realise you haven't seen one for years. I used to see a red normal van, F157 TRU every morning walking to work. Must be long gone now.

 

 

EDIT. Ha, just did an MOT check on the above van. Last MOT in 2006 has a very impressive failure list with excessive corrosion mentioned twelve times!

[Inspector Morose]

Mk1 nationals were indeed set up badly from the factory with over light steering and too much brake force applied to the (over egged) front shoes. BUT it was all adjustable and with a bit of nous, all of its bad habits could be tamed quite easily. The main issue was similar to the transition from steam to diesel on the railways. Bus engineers were used to adjusting by feel and back in the day, the large sledge hammer ruled over all, maybe apart from the oxy-acetylene torch. Nationals didn't respond well to this kind of treatment and what was a technicality complex machine (direct power assisted rack and pinion steering on a bus was a UK if not world first) could be spoilt by trying to maintain it like a panther or swift.

Nationals didn't suffer neglect well, unlike the more simple previous generation, and promptly failed to proceed or smother the streets in black smoke with amazing regularity. Leyland was, well, being Leyland and parts and tools to repair properly were scarce compelling the hard pressed engineers to push buses out that were not at their best.

Oh there were faults a plenty, but there were just as many with the Routemaster when first released and like this, they were overcome in time either by the factory (the phase 2 national was a far superior beast - the Mk 2, however was always a compromise plus build quality was never as good) or by engineering facilities that took the time to understand the bus properly. In a mixed fleet, however, this time and expertise was something that most cash starved companies could ill afford.

Come deregulation and timing meant the National became the go to cheap bus for the small independent who didn't have the time nor resources to maintain such a complex bus properly and so the Nationals reputation of a bad bus was further cemented into the minds of those who had to drive, ride or maintain them. There were a few exceptions and they succeeded where others failed in taming the beast but it was too late. The minds of many were set.

 

BMH, you do realise I'm just jealous about you having a shot at the Tynesider, don't you? It still is preserved and I nearly bought it many years back but just didn't have the funds at the time but I'd part with a few limbs to get it in "the book".

[sierraman]

Did any of the London Titans survive? MASS Transport had a dual door one until about 5 years ago.

[LightBulbFun]

 " but I'd part with a few limbs to get it in "the book". " for the Tynesider...

 

this truly is autoshite 

 

IIRC a few of the titans have survived I know T1 and T2 are persevered or so, I highly recommend you check out the Awesome ians bus stop website I have been reading and following his website since i was about 4... http://www.countrybus.org/Titan/Titan.html here is his page on the Titan there is a indvidual bus histories page too so you can see what each and everyone is up to

[busmansholiday]

I guessed jealousy was behind it, not many people have managed a go in it. As for that picture, I have an almost identical series of shots of those two together at that depot.

 

The one thing you can credit the MkI National with is the idea of a bus kneeling. South Yorkshire PTE fitted the feature to one, 88, after it hit a shop when it didn't go round a wet bend one evening. It even appeared on Tomorrow's World. Must have been about 1977.

[LightBulbFun]

I guessed jealousy was behind it, not many people have managed a go in it. As for that picture, I have an almost identical series of shots of those two together at that depot.

 

The one thing you can credit the MkI National with is the idea of a bus kneeling. South Yorkshire PTE fitted the feature to one, 88, after it hit a shop when it didn't go round a wet bend one evening. It even appeared on Tomorrow's World. Must have been about 1977.

 

nothing wrong with wanting a vehicle of any kind no matter how weird, trust me, my own Vehicular wish list would prolly make most people cry  (I prolly dont need to be saying this considring the forum we are communicating via   )

 

BTW hope you dont me being that 1 guy but London Transport had a kneeling Routemaster just before then http://www.countrybus.org/RM/RM7.html#top in 1975/78   (scroll to the bottom of the page for the details )

[Inspector Morose]

RM 116 did have the hydraulic suspension fitted but as far as I know, they didn't implement the kneeling setup. As per LT, the way the bus was to kneel was that a larger hydraulic cylinder was to be placed above the suspension cylinder thereby collapsing the rear suspension when fluid was allowed into the top one. The resulting jump at the rear when fluid was eventually released would be quite a sight!

116 had the active ride removed after about a year or so after wear in the suspension cylinders allowed copious amounts of fluid to escape.

 

Hydraulic systems were quite the thing at LT. It experimented with a complete hydraulic system for everything for the FRM and QRM projects. Brakes, suspension, doors, heater motors, gears and even wipers would be motored by hydraulics. The alternator was also to be hydraulically driven so that the alternator could be placed close to the batteries reducing voltage losses over long cable runs.

 

If you ever find the book 40 years with London Transport by Colin Curtis - it is a facinating insight into the experimental department of LT in it's heyday.