r.welfare Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 ...by which I probably mean Marty and jonkw, but anyone else is welcome to comment!My '94 405 (XUD9T, I think - 1905cc 92bhp turbo anyhow) has, since I bought it the first time round last year, exhibited an annoying fault, namely taking 45secs of cranking (sometimes needing priming of the fuel pump via the rubber bulb in the engine bay) to start when cold. At which point it will emit a largish cloud of grey (not black) smoke. Definitely runs on all four cylinders straightaway though. It goes first time if you start it again within up to 4hrs of shutting off. I give the glowplugs two blasts until the relay clicks.I have a new set o' glowplugs to try - but do you think it's something else - air getting into the leakoff pipes and hastening the derv's slippage back to the tank, or (shudder) the fuel pump itself misbehaving? It does seem odd that priming the pump never makes the bulb 'hard', if you know what I'm saying. As I will be pressing the thing into daily use in two weeks' time, a simple fix would be great... LesRasK 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuvvum Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 Hmm... I'm not an expert on diesels by any stretch, so I'm not going to offer any opinions here, although if it were my car my first thought would be an air leak somewhere. If it is the pump though, you can console yourself that it's not an HDi engine - you would be adding another zero onto whatever a new XUD pump costs you for a new HDi pump, and then some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milford Cubicle Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 Sounds like the glow plugs to me. For extra value, just replace a couple of them - it usually fixes the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigstraight6 Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 It does sound like glowplugs or perhaps the control relay Mr Welfare, I've had the same symptoms on two 306 diesels (non-turbo and turbo) and on each occasion glow plugs did the trick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrGav Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 What with the cold weather making an appearance again, i'd go for the glowplugs, (not too difficult to change on the 405's). But one other thing that we've had problems with in the past, is that hand primer itself. It has a non-return valve in it, and we've had to change these in the past as they leak back occasionally. Might be worth grabbing one off any other Pug or Citroen that has one (they're all the same) from a scrappy.If it was an HDi with intermittant starting problems, i'd be 99.9% sure it would be the pump in the tank that was at fault. These little buggers are failing all the time, infact, i changed one on a Xantia yesterday!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r.welfare Posted October 21, 2007 Author Share Posted October 21, 2007 Thanks chaps, I'll give the plugs a go (I have the 'proper' spanner) next weekend. Need to get to the scrappers to replace the air filter pipe so will look out for a primer bulb too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 ...by which I probably mean Marty and jonkw, but anyone else is welcome to comment!.LOLzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!No expert I an assure you! However that sounds like air getting in the system, first culprit will be the leak off pipes and end cap - will cost you all of a couple of pink pounds to buy new rubber hose and replace. Then look at the fuel lines to the pump, I had a ZX that did exactly this, just wound up replacing all the rubber hose fuel lines bit by bit till it cured it and my bulb went hard again when I primed it (if your bulb dont go hard, it probably means there is a leak somewhere - though Bosch systems don't always go rock hard, so it can be a bit misleading this.New heater plugs wint go amiss, but be prepared to swear a lot when accessing number 4 (under the pump).BXCLUB diesel starting problems page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r.welfare Posted October 21, 2007 Author Share Posted October 21, 2007 Cheers, I will add fuel lines and leakoff pipes to my potential shopping list.I am hopeful that it has the 'bulletproof' Bosch pump rather than a Lucas CAV jobbie - I am quite tempted to have a go mixing DERV with some boidiesel/chip oil to see what it goes like. Any idea of the kind of ratios you can get away with, without making modifications? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milford Cubicle Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 The 1.9TDs almost always have the Bosch pump, so you should be alright. Double check first though! I can't remember how to tell the difference, it's been a long time since I've had to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r.welfare Posted October 21, 2007 Author Share Posted October 21, 2007 Ace. I'll have a dekko under the bonnet when I haul it back from where it has rested for the last 2.5 months (while I have waited for the V5...) tomorrow night. There will be pics as it has been under a tree, and the car is a lovely shade of moss green at the mo (it should be white)!Can't wait to have it back for daily duties, it's the best car I have had for B-road blasting (the SAAB is, of course, a fancy Vectra so no great shakes in that department). It should be even better once I have fitted a full set of new shocks I picked up for a fiver on eBay... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milford Cubicle Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 http://www.dieselveg.com/identification.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrRegieRitmo Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 my bulb went hard again when I primed it (if your bulb dont go hard, it probably means there is a leak somewhere -This is what happens when you walk in on a conversation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 I can't remember how to tell the difference, it's been a long time since I've had to.Bosch pumps have "Bosch" on them, Lucas ones have "Prince Of Darkness" on them - Bosch injector pipes (on later cars) are gold coloured, Lucas are typically silver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milford Cubicle Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 When I dug the injection pump out of my Rover 218D the identification was on the back, facing the engine block... I think it was the same for the pump I took off an earlier XUD9 lump too.The pipes thing is a good tip though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r.welfare Posted November 11, 2007 Author Share Posted November 11, 2007 Aha! Well, it is a Bosch pump - gold pipes, Bosch written on the damper thingy - so I'm gonna bung in some veg oil (5ltrs) on a full tank to see what happens.Anybody going to tell me how to get at glowplug no. 4 (the one nearest the cambelt and behind the sodding pump) then? Do I need to remove the (metal) diesel pipes or is there an easier way? (Just can't get either a slim 12mm socket, 12mm offset ring spanner or one of those fancy cranked 'glowplug combo spanners' (8&12mm ratchet jobs) down there...)Oh, and Peugeots do rust after all - I've found a small hole in the chassis leg near the gearbox. Really should take all my cars to the bloke who did the MOT on this one - he missed the rust, the non-functioning rear brakes, knackered rear subframe bushes, dead front lower arm bushes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigstraight6 Posted November 11, 2007 Share Posted November 11, 2007 Anybody going to tell me how to get at glowplug no. 4 (the one nearest the cambelt and behind the sodding pump) then? Do I need to remove the (metal) diesel pipes or is there an easier way? (Just can't get either a slim 12mm socket, 12mm offset ring spanner or one of those fancy cranked 'glowplug combo spanners' (8&12mm ratchet jobs) down there...)It is possible to do the deed without removing the fuel lines, its a fairly tight affair, but if a duffer like me can do it you can The plug nearest the cambelt is a right bugger, but can be done with plenty of cups of tea on hand, and skinned knuckles on hand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r.welfare Posted November 11, 2007 Author Share Posted November 11, 2007 What kinda spanner did you use Mr BS6 sir? None of mine would go around the pipes and/or pump sufficiently to get onto the nut, let alone turn it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonkw Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 Hello That glowplug behind the Bosch pump is a right pain. TBH the best way of gaining access is to remove the intercooler, which only takes a few minutes. As regards tools, apart from the trusty 8mm and 12mm spanners, I also have a Sykes glowplug spanner, which I've bent into a more useful shape, and last time I did this job on a ZX TD I got pissed off trying to loosen the glowplug, and ended up making a tool for the job, its a 1/4" drive 12mm socket, to which I welded a bar at just the right angle.....this gets me in there to loosen the glowplug enough, then I just use the 12mm open ended spanner after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r.welfare Posted November 12, 2007 Author Share Posted November 12, 2007 Oho! Thanks Jonkw. Now then - how did you bend the Sykes glowplug wrench exactly - I have a Draper one, and it just couldn't get through the diesel pipes to no.4 plug (I took the intercooler off, incidentally, plus any other rubber hoses that were in the way, including the one that goes into the manifold, and the rubber coolant hose that goes into the thing just behind the fuel pump)? It looks the same as yours. Either I could get it on the plug and not move it, or move it but not get it over the thread, if you see what I mean...Have you tried the Laser glowplug sockets that are hinged in the middle? Might give 'em a go, but will need to measure the gaps first. Either that or get an exceptionally shallow 12mm 1/4" socket for my diddy Hilka set (which only go up to 10mm - but the 8mm is perfect for 3 out of the 4 8mm nuts wot hold the wires on). Somehow I managed to get the 8mm nut off plug no. 3, but couldn't work out how to get it back on, so the fact that it (and I think at least one other) is only hand tight could be a problem... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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