andy29

They should know what they're doing but I have no control over it so guess I just have to hope 😕

Well the old Focus estate is off... to get it's back inner wheel arches welded up.

How do I best protect it from mishaps like the poor toasted one I saw on here? I mean the boot is bare, lower rear trim and rear seats are out. Carpet is stuck down half way back and won't really pull away much. No real idea how far the sparks can fly. Welder does lots of work on cars so shouldn't they have something to cover up carpet and bits?

And that's before I lose sleep worrying about the ECU getting zapped

12 hours ago, steveo3002 said:

think theyre all shot under those arch liners unless its been in a museum all its life...what are you sills like , i spent yesterday roaring off all the sealant on ours

another spot to check is bottom of front wings, most likely full of salty mud sinse its first winter out 

Yeah that's another thing I thought about buying a replacement, "just let me jack up the back end and and pull off your wheels and liners" 😀

Yep one of mine was full of mud behind one of the front liners, but somehow just about on the right side of disappearing. The other one just had a slug living behind it. But yeah most of the sills are still solid, tiny hole on one which will need doing at some point, surface rust on the other which I'll clean and seal. I hate to think what's going on inside them. The ends of them inside the arches are going but I think I've caught them in time too.

The stonechip they put on some sill welding a couple of years ago looks like it might be encouraging rust behind it but at least I'm onto it now.

Not really a question, just an update since you guys gave me lots of help last year. Of course one of the inner rear wheel arches has gone through on the Focus. Aw poo. The other side was better and I thought I was catching it in time with the Waxoyl. Nowhere near as bad as some I've seen online but it has some small holes. I'll get someone to have a look at how much work it'll be but I feel like I might be needing to learn to weld...

I could just buy another but where's the fun in that?  Still have to inspect more of the back end which is hopefully just a bunch of surface rust but a lot of the rest looks fairly good. The neighbours must think I'm trying to play a tune as the hammer goes tap tap tap. And if I can get past these bits I think there's a lot of good still there. Maybe.

On 12/17/2020 at 7:58 AM, sierraman said:

Paste the advisories with some waxoyl and run it till the new test runs out. Those seatbelt anchorages on the Mk1 Focus can get really bad. I’d pretty much bet a penny to a pound that it’s corroded from the rear seatbelt/trailing arm mounts all the way round the boot floor to the back. Depending on how bad it is it’ll likely need welding next year. 

Oh christ, will do if there's any metal left to put it on 🙃 I will find out very soon...

Well, the Focus had an MOT. Garage didn't want too much to do the major defects so I decided I might as well let them. During the test they didn't work out exactly what was causing the exhaust problem or how big a job the welding will be so I'm still worried they'll find it's worse than they thought but I'll see. They were leaning towards a gasket which would tie up with the previous test.

Plenty of things to look at afterwards if it can get done. Will finally be able to invest in tools. How much can stonechip protect things once these problems are showing up? Any chance of being lucky and being able to slow the progress for more than a year or so?

Bloody brake load valve is always seized...

Repair immediately (major defects)

- Exhaust has a major leak of exhaust gases Front [6.1.2 (a)]
- Exhaust lambda reading after 2nd fast idle outside specified limits [8.2.1.2 (c)]
- Brake load sensing valve seized but anti-lock braking system functioning [1.1.17 (c) (i)]
- Suspension component mounting prescribed area excessively corroded significantly reducing structural strength Offside Rear (sill) [5.3.6 (a) (i)]
- Seat belt anchorage prescribed area strength or continuity significantly reduced Offside Rear (sill) [7.1.1 (a) (i)]

Monitor and repair if necessary (advisories)

- Vehicle structure is corroded but structural rigidity is not significantly reduced Rear [6.1.1 (c) (i)]
- (offside front sill corroded away) [this was what was patched up last year]
- Seat belt anchorage prescribed area is corroded but not considered excessive Offside (sill) [7.1.1 (a) (i)]

Lovely, must get on that and work out where it's coming from then. A tube of sealant for either part is hardly going to break the bank. Very good to know what I'd be going for, I didn't know about intumescent sealant, I do now.

On 10/20/2020 at 4:25 PM, sierraman said:

Does your manifold look like this one? 

I got to have a better look under the heat shield at last... still being a bastard to get off, can't see what it's still caught on but I'm being extra careful as this could be its last month on the road.

Doesn't seem the same as the one you posted Sierraman, from what I can see it does tie up with the diagram in the Haynes book, so hopefully that's a good thing. Pic of right where the '1' arrow is pointing:

On 10/29/2020 at 6:52 AM, Tickman said:

The video isn't bad at all really.

Second hand machines can be hit and miss and you do get what you pay for.

On 10/29/2020 at 12:37 PM, juular said:

It doesn't need to be that expensive to run.

The main outlay is the welder and gas bottle. A cheap machine is totally fine but it will make the learning curve a bit steeper as you won't really be able to get the perfect setup (the adjustments on cheap welders are quite coarse) and you won't know how much of the difficulty is down to yourself or down to the machine. A second hand well regarded machine is an ok idea but if you get one with knackered wire feed and liner and have to go out and buy a regulator, wire and tips you might be approaching the price of a new one with all that stuff included.

PPE is no more than a helmet and gloves. Aldi are currently selling dirt cheap helmets and sometimes have gloves too. They don't need to be expensive.

You'll need a grinder. I've been using a £20 Aldi one for years and it came with a big pack of discs.

The gas can be a bit of a difficult one to swallow initially as the best weld will come from something like argon mix and you ideally want to pay a refundable deposit on a big bottle like you'd do on a calor gas bottle.

The little disposable bottles work out very expensive and hardly last. The big bottle gas itself will last a long time and is not that expensive to get topped up. A lot of people use CO2 from fire extinguishers or pub gas which you can sometimes get for free. It might make the welding a bit more hit and miss than a nice bottle of argon / co2 but if cost is a problem then it's a cheap way in. 

You can go gasless, then you can weld in the wind outside but the learning curve is steeper again and the welds can be messy. You might get hacked off with that in no time.

A reel of wire lasts for ages. Steel itself is cheap if you use the right places. B and Q and Wickes etc sell overpriced shite. A stockholder will sell you a 2m x 1m x 1.2mm sheet for under £50 and it will go on forever. I used a big offcut from that to start practicing and used the rest to make repair panels, water tanks and gas locker for my campervan, camper bed brackets, hinges, still have lots left over. Some metal fab places give away offcuts for nothing, just need to make sure it's not galvanised or stainless.

Other consumables like cutting discs, flap wheels etc are only a couple of quid each.

The ongoing costs are really very small once you get over the initial hump.

Glad the video's a good one, it seemed pretty in depth and clear to me, but I wouldn't have even known about the positioning of the replacement metal so I wouldn't have had a clue! I wouldn't rely on a single person's videos anyway.

Thank you for writing that out Juular. It'll be so useful to get me started. I would not expect to look for welding equipment at Aldi so that's handy to know. Definitely would need to have a play on some metal first, not surprised B&Q/Wickes are like that for buying the metal, I'll need to find out what places are even around me.

Such a useful and money saving skill to have.

18 hours ago, loserone said:

That' exactly what this Stupid Question Amnesty thread is for, I'd have thought?

Fair enough 😀

17 hours ago, catsinthewelder said:

@andy29

A big part of being able to weld up a car is having somewhere to work.  If you can find a spacious garage with electricity it will be a hell of a lot easier than working on muddy grass in the rain and wind or having to be careful not to give the neighbours kids arc eye.

Uhhhhh yeah that might be the awkward part. Well I have a concrete driveway... enough room for me and a machine though. Did wonder about needing to be careful with other people around 😬

Does what the guy does in this video resemble a good job? Because I know some people who make videos are a bit questionable. Would probably need to look out for a used machine to be honest but it's already looking a little less impossible...

Sorry Sierraman, not been able to look at the exhaust manifold for a few days anyway. I'll get back in there when I get a chance...

Well I almost organised a pre-mot but somehow completely failed to get across what I want them to do - they were trying to be helpful - I guess I'll be more direct and just ask them to give me a quote for any welding they think is needed to get it through an MOT.

Or maybe just say sod it and wait for the MOT in mid December when the old one's about to run out, and get the official verdict? Fully expecting to have it off the road for a while when it runs out anyway unless I'm incredibly lucky with it. It was only really because I'd like to get on with it and it would be better to know before I  spend money on a jack, stands etc.

Quite happy for this to become a bit of a project. Only want that welding decided on before the MOT expires so I can get it done while I can still drive it.

My god the amount of HubNut, Furious Driving and a bunch of others I've watched, times I've read the Haynes manual, it's about time I did something. And oh boy what shite I would go after if I knew how to do enough. I know this isn't a help forum for dummies so I hope I didn't shit up this thread too much.

7 hours ago, sierraman said:

Does your manifold look like this one? 

Thank you for taking the time to do that sierraman, I think it does, I think I can see that left hand bolt - but a proper look might have to be put on hold for a few days because I needed to use it today and now it seems like I'm going to be waiting for the rain to sod off.

I'm being very careful with the heat shield because it was already a bit broken up at the top when I got it in '08, however I guess because the garage fixed it up at that time (included in the sale) the bolts/nuts on it came off stupidly easy and I don't think they even needed the PlusGas I put on them, so that was something handy.

On 10/13/2020 at 10:37 AM, juular said:

It's a little bit of investment in time and money but it is an investment nonetheless, and in the future it'll repay you many times over. The main hurdle is storage / work space and the initial outlay for the machine, gas, PPE and the metal itself. The running costs after that are very very small. If you consider that your average welding job on an old heap costs about a hundred quid it doesn't take long for it to repay you. Plus you get to keep the tools and knowledge.

When I joined this forum a year ago I'd never even considered welding but it really surprised me how quickly it can be picked up. The most difficult part is in cutting and shaping new metal to fit, but on an old shitter that just has to pass an MOT that matters much less as you can just chop out the rot and weld new plates over. There are loads of people on here that can help out too.

It also opens the option of taking on other more desirable chod that may be passed over by others because of rust, and getting it quite cheaply. It gets very addictive though! 

I'm starting to really hope I can find the room to put a machine one day. I really must look into it, it seems like a fantastic ability to have. And the difference in cost between paying someone to do it vs being able to do it yourself, in your spare time, with equipment you've already invested in is going to become very big very quickly isn't it (unless the supplies for it are expensive, I wouldn't know). Plus you know exactly what you've done, so if you do get skilled enough for important parts, you know it's going to be safe etc. I can see how it's addictive, I love it when I can fix something that most people would have just tossed away, on top of knowing that YOU did it.

As long as I can replace the bolts I suppose but I'll go as carefully as I can for now anyway. Got some PlusGas on em. Can't say any more for tonight but it was definitely somewhere around the cat and the engine itself. At the age the car is I'm expecting everything to look shitty but the leak's getting bigger so hopefully there's some evidence there. No need to go out of your way but any information is very helpful.

Well... looking from the outside round the heat shield, naturally I can see everywhere but where I want to see. Can't see a mention of a both in one type in my Haynes book (1998 to 2001, S to Y reg) so still hoping to be lucky and I'll see if I can get the shield off when I get a chance.

Any chance of getting a second hand one if I do end up needing the whole thing? Or do breakers just sell them straight to people who want the metals from them? If I could get one for a couple of hundred or something, at least it's a bit more sane.

I see what you mean. Sure is a 1.8 with the cat vertically right under the manifold. Depends how early they changed, it's from '99 and if the diagram in the Haynes book is right then maybe I'm lucky and there should be a joint there. The guy didn't take the heat shield off so maybe that's why he thought the whole thing should go? I'll have a look, if the heat shield bolts would like to co-operate. Sounds like it's the difference between a gasket + bolts or £500+ worth of cat and manifold which probably equals dead car. Nice.

Fair enough about the book, christ no wonder I was told it was a big job if the rust gets too bad in a place where the rear suspension would need to be dropped down.

On 10/13/2020 at 9:29 AM, sierraman said:

Exhaust will be the flex on the manifold, it all comes as one piece, they’re usually about £45-50 for an aftermarket one. Bottom arms piece of piss on those. Undo the pinch bolt and the front/rear bush carriers and put it comes, just watch you don’t pull the driveshaft out when you move the strut a bit. The spray on underseal will be perfectly adequate in this case, wirebrush the loose stuff off, then give it 2-3 coats. 

Pulling the driveshaft out, yeah will make sure I avoid that, yikes. Get the loose crap off and do two or three coats of the spray, got it. My exhaust manifold goes straight into the cat through the flange, am I misunderstanding? Don't know why the guy who looked said I would need a new cat (for a bajillion pounds), can't really pester him for a reply any more than I have. Rust spots on it don't look good but as you know the MOT did say it was the flange, so...!? I'll have less crap descriptions when I get the bits to have a look at it myself.

On 10/12/2020 at 11:57 PM, dozeydustman said:

Haynes manual will be fine for most simple jobs. Beware the spanner/skill rating often tells fibs.

It overestimates how hard things are, right? Right? 😀

You know what, I was just going to ask about a pre-MOT. I think I should get one and then look at the body myself before I pester you guys any further, because you've been really helpful but I'm aware the current one is nearly a year old and there are so many things that might be too bad or might be ok this time.

Every pound you don't spend is great but I'm happy spending a couple of hundred or so each year to keep it going, it's worth it to me for several reasons. Have been told to consider calling time by my usual garage but they are probably normal and see no point in bothering with welding a 21 year old car! Handy to have an idea of the value of a good one. I don't have to have a Focus but it would be nice and I know a lot about it now, and yes, nicking bits from it could be very useful.

Oh boy, learning to weld... that would be wonderful, but I would be starting from zero knowledge other than a few Youtube videos. Still, the car could wait for me to get a clue, no hurry.

Glad some of these bits might be doable by me, again no hurry so it's ideal. Have already looked into how that exhaust flange seal is changed, so I'll look into the anti roll bar link and suspension arm and the bolts you describe. Do have other annoyances like that brake load sensing valve waiting to play up again as well (it was freed up to get it through the test once before years ago) but I'll come to that if/when I need to.

I have a Haynes manual so is that good enough or are there even more in depth ones about?

Sorry Sierraman, I meant that sill was done to get it through last time. Seems like if a pre-MOT isn't catastrophic then I'll be having a damn good look over the body myself - I know the rear belt points were mentioned in the advisories so you may well be right about the boot area. Stonechip sounds interesting, I see places saying it protects from corrosion, so it does help with that then? I was hoping there was something preventative I could do even if there are no miracles.

6 hours ago, sierraman said:

What’s the actual fail sheet say?

It's pretty sad. Shouldn't have let it get like this but my circumstances haven't been the best. Most recent MOT, December 2019...

Major defects, fixed to get it through:

Offside Front Outer Seat belt anchorage prescribed area strength or continuity significantly reduced sill (7.1.1 (a) (i))
Nearside Track rod end ball joint has excessive play (2.1.3 (b) (i))

Advisories:

Nearside Front Anti-roll bar linkage ball joint has slight play (5.3.4 (a) (i))
Front Exhaust has a minor leak of exhaust gases flange (6.1.2 (a))
Nearside Rear Seat belt anchorage prescribed area is corroded but not considered excessive (7.1.1 (a) (i))
Offside Rear Seat belt anchorage prescribed area is corroded but not considered excessive (7.1.1 (a) (i))
Brake load sensing valve stiff (1.1.17 (c) (i))
Brake load sensing valve linkage defective but function not impaired (1.1.17 (a))
Rear Sub-frame corroded but not seriously weakened (5.3.3 (b) (i))
Nearside Rear Vehicle structure is corroded but structural rigidity is not significantly reduced (6.1.1 (c) (i))
Offside Rear Vehicle structure is corroded but structural rigidity is not significantly reduced (6.1.1 (c) (i))
Offside Front Suspension arm pin or bush worn but not resulting in excessive movement rearmost bush (5.3.4 (a) (i))
Nearside Front Macpherson strut corroded but not seriously weakened (5.3.3 (b) (i))
Offside Front Macpherson strut corroded but not seriously weakened (5.3.3 (b) (i))
Nearside Front Brake hose has slight corrosion to ferrule (1.1.12 (f) (i))
Offside Front Brake hose has slight corrosion to ferrule (1.1.12 (f) (i))
Nearside Front Coil spring corroded (5.3.1 (b) (i))
Offside Front Coil spring corroded (5.3.1 (b) (i))
Nearside Rear Coil spring corroded (5.3.1 (b) (i))
Offside Rear Coil spring corroded (5.3.1 (b) (i))

Also a number plate lamp, but I can definitely do that one.

Let me know if I should carry this on in its own thread, if it's even worth continuing after seeing that. This is why I think it might just be something to practice on. I hope I didn't waste your time.

Rust 🤬

Well you're making sure you get all of the use you can from it and saving waste, it's a good thing

I know, I don't use my Focus much for how much I spend on it. One day I'll add up how much I've spent on it... worst thing was spending £100s to get the cloudy headlights changed years ago... if only I had time and the ability to get the front off the ground back then...

I'm still sad I had to let my '94 Citroen AX go 12 years ago. Was my first car and it still hurts slightly even talking about it. Structural rigidity of a piece of paper in a crash apparently.

Eek, at the last MOT the rear anchor points were marked as "corroded but not considered excessive" as an advisory. Not bad enough to fail but that'll be another thing for the list if I attempt to keep it going. I've already looked on the inside but I know that's not going to tell you much unless it's horrifically bad!

It's an interesting world 🙂

@catsinthewelder @sierraman @dozeydustman Thanks a lot for your replies... really good to have some encouragement.

I’m hoping to get a bit more detail on what the worst rusty parts are soon, I know it was a bit vague. But I think the arches were somehow ok on mine, despite moss wanting to grow on Ford's wheel arch carpet, it’s more just... everything else. But yes I’ll have a look at the boot floor if it does keep going.

I've been told that the blowing exhaust for whatever reason means I'd need a new catalytic converter (don't know if it's because the end joints would be screwed, or if the thing itself has a problem)... and also that it would be advisable to change the (12 years old) timing belt. This is where things are starting to pile up, together with the probable welding, woohoo. But then it looks like finding another Mk 1 without its own set of problems could well cost nearly as much, so...

I did worry about the mileage and how long the engine, transmission and so on might last, so that's good to know. I don’t put many miles on it myself now so I’m sure that helps. As far as I can tell it all feels pretty good. In fact I've always wondered if it had a clutch change at some point, unless they're known for taking 100k miles with ease, I have no idea. I know you still see a lot of them about (Mk 1.5s mainly) so at least most spares should exist I guess.

I'll get more detail about the rust and I'll go from there...
 

Hello... I hope I'm not messing up the forum here. This is my '99 Focus. 110,000 miles, totally worthless to anyone else. Don't really know if it qualifies as autoshite, but it runs and drives lovely. More just shite now though thanks to rust. More the structure than the wheelarches apparently. MOT due just before Christmas. A longer list of advisories than any other Mk1 I've looked up, even early ones.

Am I crazy or just a bit silly wanting to save it? Won't be cheap though especially with probably wanting a new timing belt alongside the fixes for the MOT. I think it's a really good, nice looking, dependable car otherwise.

Don't mind if I could get things fixed gradually, there's no rush to keep it on the road or get it out of the way, but it'll very likely need welding and a couple of other bits done to get it through the MOT, so if I don't get it all done now, it's stuck on the driveway after December unless the garage can pick it up (and do a quote, and do the work, and bring it back...) on a flatbed I guess. And then if I leave it, who knows how much worse is it going to get even if it's sitting...

If it's going to be the end then maybe it's a good opportunity to practice doing some work myself, because at the moment I am just a dummy who drives the thing and would like to learn to do something useful.