Land Rover Series 3 info?

[garethj]

Here I am, 37 years old, married, kids, mortgage and the outward appearance of normality - I've even got life insurance for when the old bread knife disconnects the brake lines on the motorbike. Yet I quite fancy a car I had as a toy when I was 9

 

I'm considering selling my '61 VW and getting one of these

 

We've got a 1999 Galant V6 for family duties, it's red, got aircon and is quiet - all requirements are met. I use a motorbike for getting to work in London so I really only need a car for taking the kids to sports on a Saturday morning and the odd trip around town.

 

I reckon a 109 Landie would be cool for this, have a childproof interior, be good at carrying 2 bicycles and a pram to the park, that sort of thing. What are they like to drive? How much does a solid one cost? It's a car that looks best with a few dents but I quite like the idea of not having the chassis break in half.

 

Any tips? I throw this open to the floor, I know you'll do me proud

[wuvvum]

What are they like to drive?

By all conventional standards, absolutely dreadful. They're slow, noisy, thirsty, draughty, bone-jarringly uncomfortable, and the steering is impossibly heavy and needs full lock to get round the M25. But here on Autoshite we don't go by conventional standards, and in their own way old Landies are great fun to drive, in a masochistic kind of a way. Price-wise, to be on the safe side I'd suggest paying four figures - you get the odd good one for less than that but cheap Landies are a bit of a minefield, with chassis and bulkhead rot being the major issues.

[garethj]

You haven't talked me out of it yet I've got the motorbike for going fast, reckon a 2.2 petrol 109 would do 60mph? The wind noise and wandering handling would probably kill you at much more than that.Fairly sure it won't fit in my garage but these Landies often look better with some moss growing on the window rubbers anyway.I guess they're quite good for getting spare parts?Is there a desirable spec so I can avoid it? Looks like all the offroad boys want the short wheelbase and V8 power so I'm well on the way with a 109 two and a quarter litre

[Sid]

I agree with Wuvvum, conventionally they're dreadful but when I had my old diesel SWB I just laughed as I drove along, a radio was a waste as the cacophony from the engine and the rattling interior was louder and more entertaining and the handling was on par with the Queen Mary, highly recommended!

[Guest greenvanman]

I had one for seven years but that's only because it was usually too broken to sell, and at times when I was a student it was cheaper to buy more shite and run that than fix the Land Rover. As others have already said, by any standards handling, braking, steering, performance and fuel economy are all terrible. They leak for England - that's vital fluids out and water in on your head - and the SIII is also pretty capable at rusting. When I had mine parts were generally cheap and availability was good, which is essential as you'll need a lot of them.Sure, there were good days but they were far outweighed by the abject misery of endless breakdowns and marathon welding sessions at MOT time. But if you're dead set on one, how about a 110? They've been around long enough to qualify as shite and you get power steering and coil springs, as well as other luxuries such as wind up windows :lol:Personally, I'd rather chop my arm off with a rusty hacksaw than own another Land Rover.

[Maltelec]

I'm 23 and so far owned three Series-3's and one 2a.I love land rovers and would recommend them to any nutter who loves old vehicles which are slow, noisey, wet, difficult to drive, wanders all over the road, breaks down in the worst places possible etc.I still own my 1st car, a 1983 SWB County Station Wagon land rover. Its my daily driver and has been for almost 5 years now. I've sold my other 2 but the 4th one I still have. Its a 1978 109 ex-police land rover which I've been restoring at great expense (I've spent over £8k on it doing pretty much all the work myself).One thing you'll love about them is how on a frosty morning, all the water which has frozen to the inside of the roof melts and drips down your back as you're driving along.

steering is impossibly heavy and needs full lock to get round the M25

Thats somewhat of an exageration, you only need 2 turns of the wheel to get round the M25 on a LWB.The gearboxes whine, the engines knock, the diesel engines especially shake the vehicle to bits (hence why EVERY nut and bolt has a spring washer on it). The steering is a little loose when they were new, so 30 years later they tend to take up the whole lane despite being really quite narrow.However the great things about them are things like full torque out of the engines from about 100 rpm upwards. This gives you the advantage over all thoes Turbo boy racers on traffic lights when a complete pile of shite land rover complete with blue smoke beats them off the traffic lights, but only upto about 20mph.One thing I really like about them is the engines and the way they drive. None of this electronic shite to control the engine, you are in complete direct control of everything. They sound right, they feel right, they respond in the way you'd expect.If driven right, keeping your speed up, you can get round roundabouts faster than any Eurobox despite having a 2-tonne vehicle with a slow 60BHP engine.The other great thing is how narrow they are. A new mini is wider! (and longer than a SWB!). I can get mine through gaps, without slowing down, which most people wouldn't even attempt. You get so used to the steering and subconsiossly watching the road that when you get back into your Eurobox you are weaving all over the road opposite to what the land rover would do. They always steer down hill.They are not even a 4x4, they are a 2x4 vehicle as they only drive the back wheels when on the road, otherwise you hear an almighty bang from the rear end.If you get one with an Overdrive (highly recomended) you'll have 16 forward gears and 4 reverse. None of them will be quite right for the hill you're on, but don't be afraid to rev the bollox off the engine, they are made for 4000 rpm all day and night.Also they are only as slow as the driver. I've had my SWB upto a very scary speed before (I'll not say how much but it was a couple short of a ton) going down a very long hill. I backed off in the end but it was still accelerating. They are slow uphill I'll admit but even then my 109 (which has a 2.5 petrol engine not the original 2.25) was beating my mates Hi-Lux up a hill one day.Brakes, now some LR's have ABS. No matter how much you pump the brakes they'll never lock up. Brakes which work (and there not all that difficult to fix) work really really well. A LWB S3 has 11" drums all round with twin leading shoes on the front. These are enough to lock all 4 wheels on dry tarmac if set up properly and you push hard enough. LR brakes in good working order should send an MOT test meter right round the clock.Steering, as I've said the steering is notoriously wantering. You get used to it and its not really a problem. The complete lack of power steering isn't a problem as long as you don't have to parallel park. You get used to only turning the wheel when the vehicle is moving, which you should only do anyway. I use a truckers knob on my SWB but I still need both hands on it when goinf round a tight corner. However once upto speec (above 10mph) the steering is about normal. You need 2 hands on the wheel around corners most of the time but unless you're a propper weekling you'll have no problems. Saying that I can now do 10 pull ups after driving these things every day.Gearboxs',If you have an overdrive, there are 3 gearboxes on a land rover.Main box: 4-speed box + reverse. Synchromesh on all forward gears (S3 box), known for failing. Synchro has failed on 1st and is lazy on 4th on my SWB. I just ignore it (cos I can). The boxes are otherwise ok. If it ever starts going funny, put some more oil in it. If you get metal parts comming out when changing the oil, that'll probably be the synchromesh on 1st gear, though you never need one on 1st anyway. 1st gear is very low. Imagine a normal car's 1st is like a LR's 2nd.Transfer box: This is the 4WD box. Series-2 and 3 land rovers are unique in that you can engauge 4WD at any speed. All these Jap Crap vehicles you have to stop or be below 5mph. Low box is also on here giving you 4 or 8 super low gears. Top speed in 4th + OD in low box is about 22mph with the engine reving its bollox off.Overdrive. People buy and overdrive and then all they do is whine whine whine..... A bad fairey OD can be a real pain on the ears. A good one is fantastic. Keep them topped up with oil. They don't reall add top speed, they just add ecconomy (about 3mph) and alter the noise so its not the engine sounding like its about to explode, its now the overdrive.Differentials, on a LWB S3 the rear is a Salsbury. These are stronger than the Rovers which are used on the front. You shouldn't have any problems with them if they are kept oiled.Body work. Its aluminium so it can't rust. Doesn't mean it can't turn to powder though.Engines:The 2.25 5-bearing petrol is said to be the best of all the series engines. They are almost indestructable. I've broken a piston clean in half and it kept on running! Took me 2 hours from driving it gingerly into the workshop to driving it back out again all fixed. You can't do that on many cars!The 2.25 petrol is an excellant engine. A good carb makes all the difference. The 2.25 Diesel is another good engine, though its not as powerful as the petrol and quite a bit noisier. Petrol = 77BHP, Diesel = 66BHP. In all honesty you'd not notice too much difference. The main thing about these engines is the torque they produce. Diesel peaks at 1800 rpm and the petrol is 2200rpm. Unlike a Shitroen 2CV, when you overtake a truck you can hold your speed as the engines have that low down torque to push you past. A 2CV will get to that point where the air resistance increases much and it can't push past. Keep your speed and it'll hold it. Loose it and you've got many more gears to go down.Overall, land rovers are brilliant things. You can keep your foor hard down on the go pedal all day and it'll just keep on running. When they do break they are really easy to repair. Most things you can just ignore and keep on going.If it fails its MOT on something, you can often unbolt it and then it'll pass.

[outlaw118]

Had two in the family, one (SWB S2, with V8 in) was great in a scary way, all comments re: wandering about correct, but also had a 1977 88" wagon, and that was terrible. Leaks, breakdowns, wandering, no power. A real dog.You pays your money etc etc....Would have another if the opportunity arose though.....

[Maltelec]

Ah yes I forgot to say, if it don't leak then its out of oil.

[garethj]

Thanks guys!Cheers Maltelec, great post!

[Albert Ross]

Maltelec as ever, the geek......sorry, the NERD!Buy one,you know you want one. I have a tax exempt seatbelt exempt exMOD 109 in a pile of bits in the . Most of it hails from 1961, but theres bits missing and knackered. All in all, not worth a bean...but the (see left) is coming on, and will hit the road soon!!

[Dead_E23]

I've had a 200Tdi 110 CSW for about 6 years and drive it most days. It's fairly economical (28mpg) and pretty reliable, as long as your definition is 'starts in the morning and doesn't break down mid-journey'. However, there's always a long list of jobs to do or a new clonking or rattling noise to track down. The latest thing is that it needs a new exhaust - the rear section came adrift (£33) and because I didn't bother to fix it pronto the front pipe (£17) has fractured. At those prices I'm not too worried. Better still, all the other bits are dirt cheap too - even when I shop at the main dealer the prices don't hurt too much!It's comfy enough, but a bit noisy at speed and the heater is arse. All the same, I've no intentions to part with (or wash) it in the foreseeable future. I say get one.

[Milford Cubicle]

Transfer box: This is the 4WD box. Series-2 and 3 land rovers are unique in that you can engauge 4WD at any speed. All these Jap Crap vehicles you have to stop or be below 5mph.

Hardly unique, most 4WD vehicles can engage 4WD at speed. I accidentally engaged it in my Subaru Justy at 85MPH, and that's hardly a hardcore off-roader. Incidentally there's no speed limit mentioned for engaging it in the handbook as far as I remember.

[Guest greenvanman]

Differentials, on a LWB S3 the rear is a Salsbury. These are stronger than the Rovers which are used on the front. You shouldn't have any problems with them if they are kept oiled.

Mine broke two of those. They both had oil in.Yours must be right goers, Maltelec, because I don't remember mine doing any of the things you describe even though it had a more powerful engine than standard (Transit 2.5Di) after the original one seized.Don't do it, garethj, if you want some 4WD shite get yourself a scabby Hilux pickup on white 8-spokes - you know it makes sense. I'm leaving this thread now, because just thinking about that shed is making me twitch

[pogweasel]

There you go, what they all said. I've had several of these crusty old fuggas, all from the bottom of the LR gene-pool (less than £500). Clanky, noisey, uncomfortable, vague, blah blah. Going more than 10 miles? TAKE SANDWICHES.But by christ are they are lark.I used to take my lad "mudding" every sunday morning, trundling through slime is a great buzz.

[Maltelec]

Yours must be right goers, Maltelec, because I don't remember mine doing any of the things you describe even though it had a more powerful engine than standard (Transit 2.5Di) after the original one seized.

Its like your 125 bikes. Once you know how to drive them you know how to keep the speed uphills and gain it downhills. Only with a land rover you have the weight advantage which overcomes the fact that its got the aerodynamics of a breeze block.

Hardly unique, most 4WD vehicles can engage 4WD at speed.

I don't know about the Jap Crap vehicle you described but most I've seen only have the one transfer box lever. Land Rovers have one lever and one button. The button engauges 4WD using a completely seperate mechanism to the low box lever simply by pressing it. Very handy when you start to skid on snow.

[Milford Cubicle]

Hardly unique, most 4WD vehicles can engage 4WD at speed.

I don't know about the Jap Crap vehicle you described but most I've seen only have the one transfer box lever. Land Rovers have one lever and one button. The button engauges 4WD using a completely seperate mechanism to the low box lever simply by pressing it. Very handy when you start to skid on snow.

Yes, and those vehicles can engage 4WD at speed too. The pattern of those single levers is usually 2WD>4WD high>4WD low, and no you don't have to stop when engaging 4WD unless they have manual locking hubs.

[garethj]

Didn't realise it was normally 2 wheel drive. Must look at ebay for RWD, DRIFT, NOTAE86 I'm not really put off so far, to be honest any rough old car will be a headache and a moneypit. I've also got a soft spot for the 70s Toyota Landcruiser and 80s Nissan Patrol, but the chances of finding one that wasn't shagged 20 years ago are zero. And as I say, I had a toy Landrover 109 which is far more important than any road test Wonder if normal people look in Autocar for their next car rather than the toybox in their mind? HmmmmmIs it worth hanging on for an overdrive car or not? Where's a good place to look for a Landie for sale?

[pogweasel]

Yeah, I'd try and cop one with an overdrive if you value your ears/wallet/sanity. None of mine have had one, and it means you are at 50mph cruising speed which is tedious. As for buying one... bit of a mine-field, some come up at nice prices in the classifieds of LR & Militaria magazines but you would have to be quick. Other than that it's the bay of E I suppose, and hope you get a good 'un. Don't discount ones with minor mechanical maladies, they can make good bargains.

[Milford Cubicle]

This one looks decent for the price, there aren't many station wagons on the 'Bay at the moment.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1980-Landrover-10 ... 0218949102

[garethj]

Says it loses power on steep hills... engine compression I wonder?I drove from Cumbria to home in the serene quiet of the Galant. Fuck, it's a long way. In a Land Rover that's down on power I reckon I'd need to take a fortnight off work and book an osteopath for to come with me

[pogweasel]

I should think that it's not losing power as such, Cumbria: quite hilly Land Rover vs. Gravity well there's the answer. ;)Says it's thirsty too, probably for the same reason - One I bought the chap reckoned it would only do 15mpg, however pootling round our flatlands I was getting more like 22.

[Guest greenvanman]

Says it loses power on steep hills... engine compression I wonder?

Nah, he just doesn't know how to drive it properly. I bet he can't burn off hatchbacks on roundabouts either

[Ratdat]

I had a 1981 Nissan Patrol and it's not a great deal less agricultural than a Landrover. Drives more or less like a lorry and is rather slow and thirsty. Probably got comfier seats than a Landy, power steering and almost guaranteed to be more reliable but still one for masochists.

[Dead_E23]

Didn't realise it was normally 2 wheel drive. Must look at ebay for RWD, DRIFT, NOTAE86

My series 1 was extremely GUD 4 DRIFTiN whether you wanted it or not; at the first sign of rain any corner taken over 20mph required a fair bit of opposite lock, often much to the consternation of oncoming motorists. Think it had a lot to do with the knackered Firestone Town & Country tyres it was wearing, but it was fun and did teach me a lot about controlling oversteer. (My next car was a MkI Fiesta on super budget radials, and that taught me all about understeer...)

Is it worth hanging on for an overdrive car or not? Where's a good place to look for a Landie for sale?

I wouldn't hold out for one - overdrives are a desirable item in themselves. Overall condition is much more important. I'd also advise against buying a LR off Ebay unless you can inspect the car before bidding and have a pretty good idea of what you're looking at. Small ads, Autotrader and LR forums are probably as good as anywhere.Also, I'd be very cautious about buying anything non-standard unless you're familiar with the rules around SVA; there are a lot of bitsas and hybrids in circulation. For similar reasons I'd pay fairly close attention to VINs, engine and gearbox numbers before parting with money - it's not too uncommon to hear of people discovering that their engine has had the numbers ground off, particularly diesels.

[MrRegieRitmo]

I've also got a soft spot for the 70s Toyota Landcruiser and 80s Nissan Patrol, but the chances of finding one that wasn't shagged 20 years ago are zero. And as I say, I had a toy Landrover 109 which is far more important than any road test

Look what I've just snagged myself on the bay of E!!

 

 

 

 

O/T but I've also got one of these arriving soon!

 

[Maltelec]

That green Ebay one is about 20 miles from here Doen on power could mean anything but it'll not be difficult to sort. I'd start with the carb.

[garethj]

Still, several hundred miles in an unknown car with no chance of viewing it beforehand.... why am I not schoolboy-keen here? My VW is booked in for an MoT next week, I'll ask the garage what they'll give me for it and plan my 109 hunting from there.Thanks for all the replies

[Maltelec]

Are you with the AA?

[garethj]

I am. And I can see your ingenious idea This one will be gone before my VW goes in next week so I'll start looking seriously from then

[Maltelec]

Heres my 109 btw.

 

You could buy it for £10,000