Ever been...

[Jason A]

...embarrassed by the shite you drive? Silly question I appreciate on a forum like this, where we love our old shite. But the other evening we met up with some friends in one of these huge shopping malls that Spaniards seem to love frequenting, and at the end of the evening me, wifey & kid headed back to our trusty old ZX estate, & bugger me if our friends (who I know are absolutely minted) were parked right next to us, in this brand new 4x4 Volvo thingy.First time ever I found myself thinking 'oh my God this is embarrassing!' Thing is, I could afford to upgrade it now, but my wife thinks along the same lines as me, let's keep it till its dying day.170k on the clock & I have total confidence she'll purr on down to Valencia on Saturday for us (250 miles)Anyway, happily now the feeling's passed but was just wondering if anyone else had ever found themselves in that situation?

[Guest greenvanman]

Naaah! Next time you get that feeling just think to yourself "Monthly payments? 28.9% APR? Depreciation? What are they then?"

[Mr_Bo11ox]

I must admit, I do feel like that sometimes, however the feelings are never anywhere near strong enough to make me go to the local VW Passat shop.If I am driving something with MEGA KLASS like an Ital van then those feelings never get a look-in of course.

[wuvvum]

I have had that feeling on occasion. Those occasions have been more than compensated for, however, by the times when my £100-worth of battered 18-year-old Mazda 121 has left matey's £350-a-month BMW 318i behind in the traffic light GP. And like you say, the fact that he's losing more in depreciation in a week than what I paid in total for my car only enhances my feeling of smugness. The 900 Turbo is another kettle of fish altogether - OK it's a fair bit smarter than the 121 so I don't feel quite as self-conscious climbing in to it, but it cost me £180 and will give some very expensive motor cars a very good run for their money. I find there's few things that drivers of "nice" cars like less than being out-accelerated by a "banger". Whenever I'm sat in the left lane at lights in the 121 you can guarantee that every car north of a Kia Picanto will pull up to the right of me - their car is newer so it has a divine right to beat me away from the lights. It's funny how the exact same cars are quite happy to sit behind me in the left lane when I'm in the Alfa (which ironically is slower off the line than the 121). People are odd.

[Spottedlaurel]

I drive stuff like it most of the time, so I don’t really think about it. Father-in-law commented on the scraped bumpers on the Camry the other day, to which I could only explain that was the point of it. I drive on country lanes and often have to dive off onto the verge, scraping hedge as I go – I don’t want to worry about every little scratch on something in spectacular condition or new. Even used it to push the dead Laurel around recently, he couldn’t do that with his 07-reg Yaris.I took the JDM Laurel to meet a Client not long ago, a BMW-driving M.D., and when we left his office the car park was empty apart from our cars. He commented favourably on it and it transpired that he had a Capri 3-litre in his garage.That’s probably the only time I’m conscious of what I’m driving, if I go out to meet someone for work, and I might just make my choice based on that. Big cars give the gravitas to pull it off, whereas drive a smaller old car and they might be a bit suspicious – I’m designing buildings which will cost our clients hundreds of thousands so I have to be vaguely aware of the impression given.

[reallyloud]

I think my range of cars stand up on their own merits - particularly as you cannot compare a modern computer activated car with my collection of rusty metal, carburators, chrome and ornate design features. There is a point when shite becomes desirable though, and people will notice that Laurel or CX wagon in the car park. Hang on to the ZX for another 10 years and the problem solves itself!

[binhoker668]

NO!!Never!No matter what poo-based motor I'm in, I'm always aware of the fact that 8 times out of ten an engine based breakdown will be bodgeable with my trusty glove box full of cable ties, Gaffa tape and a hammer! I cannae deal with the idea of having a 'brain' controlled engine. 1 breakdown = 200 quid fix at least!Oh, and I'm fairly shameless at the best of times anyway!I'm with Mr Laurel on this one.....

[pandamonium]

Buy a Lada. Then you can pass it off as being "ironic"!

[pogweasel]

I often feel more 'embarassed' rolling up in our 7-year-old Focus than anything with shite-credentials.My BMW may be 19 years old but I reckon it still has a touch of class about it [being a wagon helps], same goes for any euro-prestige brand, Saabs Volvos, Mercs & whatnot. The driver could be a penniless twit or a loaded aristo, you just don't know.

[Richard]

I've seen people driving new cars who I know to have a similar level of income to me, so I could afford one in theory. It would involve working nearly 2 weeks every month just to hire a new car though, appearances just aren't that important to me.

[r.welfare]

Quite happy to drive, and own, shite. More important things in life to spend money on than depreciation and having the latest registration plate. I have noticed, like wuvvum, that other road user's attitudes to me are very different in the L-reg 405 saloon that I drive around in today, to the 56-plate Saab 9-3 that I had as a company car until last October - I get huge numbers of gesticulating Passat 2.0TDI drivers right up my back end now, perhaps they don't realise that I am not in fact some penniless waster and probably earn more than they do.Having a car that you can park anywhere, in any position, without worrying about it is also a bonus. I also find that keeping the roof bars on permanently (+100 shitepoints, economy thus far has not suffered greatly) aids finding the thing in a crowded carpark too.

[Guest]

I never feel ashamed of my fleet.The condition of my stuff makes it quite clear that I enjoy driving what I have. Whatever is being driven gets washed weekly and I'm almost obsessive about tidying up things like rust and dents.I'd be more ashamed to have something newer, but tatty, to be honest.

[r.welfare]

^^^ What he said. My neighbours thought I was mad yesterday machine-polishing the old Pug - turns out that maybe they had seen the weather report before me...

[Mr Lobster]

Nah, can't say as I'm greatly bothered. Occasionally yes I do get a vague feeling of temptation but nothing that would make me want to sign up to some finance deal, especially when I see what friends are paying per month to drive something not particularly interesting.There are those who thing my R4 is faintly ridiculous and wouldn't be seen dead in it but then they are the same people paying £250+ per month in finance....I do have the luxury of a company car which I don't particularly like but seeing as it includes fuel and I can't get a cash alternative I am stuck with it for the moment. I would be much happier taking a cash option and buying more shite.And anyway, I'd rather be driving something different rather than following the herd.

[Adrian_pt]

Weirdly enough, observing the parents' car park at a (rather grand) public school in the home counties a couple of years ago, there was a helluva lot of shite. Cream of the crop was an F-reg Lada Samara belonging to somebody quite high up in the rich list, but there were lots of 80s Volvo estates, two Mk 3 Escorts, some falling apart W124 E-class Mercs, a smattering of Pug 405s, an absolutely immaculate B-reg Accord, one disastrouly rotten Silver Shadow, a SD1, and so on. When David Cameron turned up to do a speech there it was in a very early (A-reg) metallic brown Espace. So shite really has very little to do with how much you earn. I'm frankly never embarrassed about what car I turn up in, although I tend to go for the bog posh (and very battered) saloons!

[r.welfare]

I think a lot of "old money" types buy stuff new then run it until it drops, or they do. If they look after it then you can be onto a winner - my '84 Prelude was owned by some PR type with country house and Bentley Turbo R in the drive, and came with a 4-inch wad of main dealer receipts, for pennies.Having said that I did chuckle when I saw the registration number "W4" attached to a dented, dirty 307 in the village last week. Fella driving it wore salmon-coloured cords, always a sign of a wealthy eccentric!

[Milford Cubicle]

I've seen people driving new cars who I know to have a similar level of income to me, so I could afford one in theory. It would involve working nearly 2 weeks every month just to hire a new car though, appearances just aren't that important to me.

Ditto, and I earn bugger all. It's amusing seeing these people working three jobs to pay for their new/nearly-new cars, plasma TVs etc. while criticising my sub-£200 tat-mobiles. At least I can live a little!

[Guest]

Due to the nature of my work, I tend to know who is on the same earnings scale as me and the bulk of them drive cars within 5 years of age, usually things like new shape Astras. Had always wondered how they could afford such a thing as they cost thousands, just assumed they were paying through the nose for them on tick.Got back from work this evening to find an offer through the post from my bank saying I could have a loan of £19100 if I wanted, paid back over 60 months, at something or other APR. That's a lot of money to me - a fair bit over a years wages!Still, I could get a pretty flash motor for that - a Maserati 3200GT would upstage everyone nicely. Even be able to keep a few thousand spare for when it inevitably breaks. Could afford the repayments easily if I stopped buying all these old Japanese motors.In conclusion, if I got rid of a third of my wage every month (and lost a few thousands in APR in the process), I could look to other people like I've got loads of money to spend. Though it'd be a bit of a lie, as I'd be considerably worse off.Amazing the effort people make to impress others, isn't it?

[MrRegieRitmo]

I think (based on the original question) in terms of when I'm most likely to get embarrassed, It'll be when I'm in whatever my idea of my modern daily is at the time rather than when I'm in my old clunker. Whatever my modern car is, is the one I want to be comparable to what other people are driving and accepted as decent. If I was in one of my prehistoric cars, the automatic blinkers would be raised and I'd clearly not care what anyone thought because I was the cat that had got the cream in my old rare motor & I didn't want it be comparable to anything else as it didn't matter to me. I would say the only thing I was yearning for whilst in my oldies, was to see more other oldies around to make me feel less alone & conspicuous! For instance, for me to bring my R14 into the fold, at the time something else had to give, so without more than a couple of moment's thought I decided my modern Fiesta was going to make way & it was a decision I knew was right & I never regretted it despite 1 or 2 people thinking I must be insane to replace my 9 yr old Fiesta Si (which was cool ish & acceptable) with an unknown 28 yr old Renault (which was slow & un trendy). Every time I thought to myself 'Have I done the right thing?" I would just say to myself that there was no way I could have let that Renault pass me by. Once every 5 years is a long time to wait to see another one advertised! :shock:Which brings me to the only time when I've really found myself slightly bothered by the acceptability of any of my motors. Bang in the middle of the period when the Renault was my main & only roadworthy vehicle I met my current girlfriend. She in a very acceptable 2000 Astra Club and her new boyfriend in a ........a......1978 Renault 14 TL in grey. We weren't very equal were we - first impressions & everything. All the times I left patches on the ground outside her parent's house (and the car too!). I remember mum mentioning to me that she thought it was a shame I hadn't met her whilst I'd got the Fiesta, which basically summed up my thoughts exactly. Still, she & her parents soon realised I had a thing for old cars & it wasn't that I couldn't do any better. She just used to drop hints here & there that I needed a new car. Perhaps she was bored of doing all the driving any time we went far afield. Fair enough I suppose, so then I went & got my Alfa which she wasn't happy about because I now had a car newer & more powerful than hers! You just can't win with women I tell thee!

[Richard]

I've often wondered how the sums stack up when you compare a new £10k blandmobile with a £10k classic or semi-exotic. Fuel and consumables would be cheaper on the blandmobile, but not much. The classic would need more maintenance but depreciation would be close to nil. I wonder if anybody has ever done a proper comparison.

[Volksy]

My sucession of ratty VW's I had when I was a youngun, were never allowed in the works carpark, didn't embarass me, just my MD

[Adrian_pt]

I personally don't really care that both my cars are massive, old, thirsty, and with zero parts ability. In my experience people tend to be fascinated by them (the Volga especially) even though they'd never have the balls to get something as utterly impractical. Luckily being a student I don't even have to think about anything sensible yet. Although part of me still regrets not having bought that yellow FIAT 850 two summers ago...

[wuvvum]

Amazing the effort people make to impress others, isn't it?

Yup. I have to confess I've been guilty of that myself on occasion - for example, when I'm going to look at a potential house to rent, I tend to turn up in the Alfa (166, not Sud) as I feel the landlord/letting agent is likely to take me more seriously if I'm driving that than, say, the 121 or the Renner Five. Sad really, but it's the way of the world. I have absolutely no desire to go out and buy a new or nearly-new Eurobox on the never-never though - I feel the Alfa is quite respectable-looking enough, and it cost me one twentieth of what I'd pay for a boggo Focus - and the bonus is that I own it outright so if I lose my job at least I can sleep in the back without fear of it being reposessed and me waking up in a car pound. Plus it leaves me more money to buy (and tax - had to tax three this month ) more "interesting" vehicles, as well as having a little left over for the occasional holiday. Not giving a toss about my home furnishings and electronics helps too - my TV was £30 from Cash Converters, my DVD player £20 from the same source, my three-piece was 50p from a local auction, my pushbike is the same one I've had since I was 13 and my cooker and hoover were found at the side of the road . My stereo is an Alba thing that I bought eleven years ago from Norwich market for £30, connected to a pair of Wharfedale speakers that I found in the back of a van I once bought. The only things I forked out proper money for were my washer/dryer (£75 second hand) and my digital piano, which probably cost me more than everything else put together. It all works perfectly well, so I honestly can't see the point in paying more.

[binhoker668]

Amazing the effort people make to impress others, isn't it?

Yup. I have to confess I've been guilty of that myself on occasion - for example, when I'm going to look at a potential house to rent, I tend to turn up in the Alfa (166, not Sud) as I feel the landlord/letting agent is likely to take me more seriously if I'm driving that than, say, the 121 or the Renner Five. Sad really, but it's the way of the world. I have absolutely no desire to go out and buy a new or nearly-new Eurobox on the never-never though - I feel the Alfa is quite respectable-looking enough, and it cost me one twentieth of what I'd pay for a boggo Focus - and the bonus is that I own it outright so if I lose my job at least I can sleep in the back without fear of it being reposessed and me waking up in a car pound. Plus it leaves me more money to buy (and tax - had to tax three this month ) more "interesting" vehicles, as well as having a little left over for the occasional holiday. Not giving a toss about my home furnishings and electronics helps too - my TV was £30 from Cash Converters, my DVD player £20 from the same source, my three-piece was 50p from a local auction, my pushbike is the same one I've had since I was 13 and my cooker and hoover were found at the side of the road . My stereo is an Alba thing that I bought eleven years ago from Norwich market for £30, connected to a pair of Wharfedale speakers that I found in the back of a van I once bought. The only things I forked out proper money for were my washer/dryer (£75 second hand) and my digital piano, which probably cost me more than everything else put together. It all works perfectly well, so I honestly can't see the point in paying more.

LOL - nice one Wuvvum, I'm warming to ya!Personally I find that squatting my house for the last 4 years and getting everything within from skips helps enormously!!Autoshite from freecycle so far - 2 fiesta MK3s, 1 P-reg Mondeo estate, 1 M reg Rover 414sxi, 1 long wheelbase hightop trannie, 1 j reg 205 Pug (the longest lasting of them all and it was petrol with 110,000miles on it!), 1 H reg 740 estate.For free from a friend - 1973 Viva in blue - all solid! But then nicked from my house and mangled before I could restore....And otherwise have never paid over 300 clams fer a car.However.Most of these are now scrapped, and I'm currently on pedal-shite. (from a skip - natch).

[Justin Case]

I can see the appeal of a new or newish car, even fairly basic cars have goodies like air-con, which were pretty rare only a few years ago, and everything works precisely. What I can't understand is the way in which people dispose of newish cars having taken a big hit with the depreciation and finance, and then doing the same thing all over again. Over the years, Mrs A and I have generally bought two to three year old cars, with the exception of a bargain new Citroen Xsara and kept them for about four or five. So far we've avoided massive depreciation and repair bills, but always had something fairly tidy and reliable.

[Guest greenvanman]

my TV was £30 from Cash Converters

Yeah, people can be a wasteful lot in general. At the moment folks are chucking out perfectly good CRT televisions to buy the latest flat-screen wonder. I got an excellent 28" Sony from someone at work free because they had done just that. I use an old OnDigital box (another cast-off) for Freeview, just re-tune and away you go.Another workmate lives in Headingley - student city for those of you not familiar with Leeds - and the things she's found left on the pavement when the students move out at the end of the year have to be seen to be believed. Televisions, stereos, Freeview boxes and in one instance a games console! She gave me the humungous Panasonic blaster I'm listening to now because it was too big for her kitchen and she had three to choose from anyway... It has a servo-operated volume knob that moves when you turn the sound up/down on the remote control, what else do you need to know!

[Spottedlaurel]

/\ That’s certainly one of my arguments, it helps justify why I sometimes have two or three on the road. Lots of people spend far more on something that’s just a means of transport to them, whereas I spend less on something that’s my hobby as well it getting me to work etc.It’s also freeing up cash which means we can afford to buy our new house, money which eventually we’ll get back and which will have kept up with inflation or maybe even have grown not wasted on interest and depreciation. I’d rather live where we’re going to be than in a rabbit hutch for the sake of driving some dullard modern car.Just thought of one other time where I might make some kind of decision about what to drive based on other people’s opinions, and that’s if I’m leaving the car parked up at night away from home I would tend not take something RWD and Japanese. Far too nickable…

[wuvvum]

It has a servo-operated volume knob that moves when you turn the sound up/down on the remote control, what else do you need to know!

My parents' stereo has that feature. When they bought it new at Christmas 1990 I thought it was the coolest thing ever.

[r.welfare]

The UK apparently has the highest new car prices in Europe (pre-tax anyway) but the lowest second-hand. Certainly browsing the French and German eBays shows that the equivalents of my cars (which cost £50 and £375 respectively) would be €2000+.There was a thread on the Honest John forum about the new craze of Poles purchasing 7-10yr old Vauxhall, Ford and Peugeot midsize diesels for £500 or thereabouts, driving them back to Poland, converting them to LHD (hopefully using the kind of shite ingenuity that US car importers utilised in the late 70s, chains across the steering column etc) and then banging them out on the local market for a profit.Makes you think, doesn't it?

[M'coli]

Autoshite from freecycle so far - 2 fiesta MK3s, 1 P-reg Mondeo estate, 1 M reg Rover 414sxi, 1 long wheelbase hightop trannie, 1 j reg 205 Pug (the longest lasting of them all and it was petrol with 110,000miles on it!), 1 H reg 740 estate.

So that's where all the Leeds group freecycle cars go!