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Chuffing Renners...


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#1 OFFLINE   wuvvum

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Posted 08 October 2007 - 06:40 PM

My 9 is being an arse. I picked it up on Saturday evening (had to drag it back from Northampton behind the Carlton, due to the weight of the DS I'd picked up earlier that day nearly killing the Laguna I'd borrowed off a mate) and it started and drove onto the trailer and sounded healthy enough in a pushrod-Renault-engine kind of way, although it ran out of petrol halfway up and had ot be winched the rest of the way. Yesterday I went out to it with a gallon of petrol and a fresh battery, looking forward to taking it for a spin, but would the bloody thing start? Would it bollocks like. Now I'm not the world's greatest mechanic, but I do know one end of a spanner from the other, so I would have thought an engine that can trace its roots back to the 1940s should not be too much of a mystery for me. Well I would have thought wrong. I prised the ancient spring clips off the (probably original) cloth-covered fuel line and checked to see if there's fuel getting through - there is, and plenty of it. I then took a random sample of HT leads (the easiest two to get to) off their plugs and tested for a spark using a borrowed plug from the Mazda, and there was a nice fat bright blue spark from both of them. Now normally with fuel and a spark an engine should run, but it occurred to me that there might be an issue with the carb - maybe it was flooding the engine or there was a blocked jet or something. So I took the air intake pipe off (noting in passing the knackered rubber seal which will need to be replaced or it'll let all the turbo boost out) and sprayed Easistart directly into the carb. Several times. Still nothing. It didn't even try to fire. So the only concluson my mediocre mechanical knowledge has led me to is that the plugs have suddenly gone south. All of them at once. Which seems unlikely to me, and would also be most unwelcome as the plugs are expensive platinum jobbies which are about 18 quid each. I haven't yet been able to get them out of the head (they look like they've been there for a while, and I don't really want to snap them off if I can help it) so I can't tell for sure, but in the meantime is there anything else that could be causing the problem? The only other thing that occurred to me was the ignition timing getting knocked out, but the distributor seems pretty firmly bolted down to me. I just don't understand why an engine would go from running fine to not running at all from one day to the next... :?

#2 OFFLINE   Volksy

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Posted 09 October 2007 - 12:01 AM

might sound daft, flooding maybe, just on the 'not run for ages' bit. plugs out, turn over with fuel off, i.e disconnected, clean plugs, refit, try.used to work with posh shite when i was a green flag man.could also be..air lock in carb, sediment from tank blocking jets in carbhate to say it, but poss headgasket

#3 OFFLINE   nigel bickle

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Posted 09 October 2007 - 07:27 AM

This sort of thing happens to me regularly -often with cars that havent run much recently. Charge the battery up, boost it with jump leads whatever, floor the throttle and I bet it'll splutter into life......I think its a combination of inertia, sluggish batt, mucky fuel and a general reluctance to go.Failing that -take it for a drag on a long rope -that'll sort it.If its a long term 'non runner' -once running leave it to run and get really hot several times -seems to move those gummy bits out of the system and get it used to living again.The Viceroy I collected at the weekend was the same -shit runner, deadish battery. Its now a near first time starter and the battery is coming back to life. Almost reliable enough to consider taking it for a blat...

#4 OFFLINE   MrRegieRitmo

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Posted 09 October 2007 - 10:17 AM

Slightly O/T but if wuvvum moves his Carlton estate on sometime, I think it would make a good stable mate to your Viceroy! :DEDIT: Wuv mate, it only needs to be static for you to take some pictures of it for us! :wink:

#5 OFFLINE   nigel bickle

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Posted 09 October 2007 - 11:47 AM

I'm not going to start collecting Vauxhall-s I've enough 'irons in the fire' as it is. this is just a walk down memory lane -excusing it to the long suffering Missus as the next towcar.Got my eye on a few morsels overseas... again....

#6 OFFLINE   55bloke

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Posted 11 October 2007 - 04:48 PM

If it's getting a spark, and fuel, and there's no water in the oil, or vice versa, yet it's still not even trying to ignite, I'd start looking elsewhere. Are the valves opening? Maybe the camshaft drive is buggered? Just a thought. Are the plugs wet with fuel, or dry after you've been trying to start it?

#7 OFFLINE   nigel bickle

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Posted 11 October 2007 - 05:46 PM

Any progress to report on this Wuvvum?

#8 OFFLINE   wuvvum

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Posted 11 October 2007 - 05:58 PM

If it's getting a spark, and fuel, and there's no water in the oil, or vice versa, yet it's still not even trying to ignite, I'd start looking elsewhere. Are the valves opening? Maybe the camshaft drive is buggered? Just a thought. Are the plugs wet with fuel, or dry after you've been trying to start it?

I assume the camshaft's turning OK as from memory this is an interference engine so if the camshaft were stationary I'd have valves hitting pistons. I've also eliminated carb problems as a potential cause as EasyStart is already vapourised when it's sprayed into the intake so there's no need for the carb to do anything. There's no sign whatsoever of water/oil cross-contamination - I checked that before I bought the car as these engines are notorious for blowing head gaskets. I haven't been able to get the plugs out yet to check them as they're in pretty tight and my normal plug spanner wouldn't get them out. I need to find the extension for my socket set and try that. I've left the car overnight though, which I would have thought would give the plugs time to dry out if they were wet, and then I've tried it straight away on EasyStart from cold so they don't have a chance to get flooded again, but still it won't go. I'm going to have a bit of a blitz on it over the weekend - and if that means dragging it up the road behind the Mazda then so be it. If I don't manage to get it going by the end of the weekend I'm probably going to end up dropping a match in the tank. :evil:

#9 OFFLINE   mk2_craig

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Posted 11 October 2007 - 06:26 PM

Might be stating the obvious, but have you checked the distributor itself? Rotor arm might be worn or loose for example. Otherwise, perhaps it's the coil that's on the blink, or assuming it's an electronic dizzy, you might have a goosed amplifier module. It was this last that caused my Escort mk3 to stop working overnight, which really did my head in as the back brakes soon seized and I couldn't even push the damn thing outa my garage.

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#10 OFFLINE   wuvvum

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Posted 11 October 2007 - 06:59 PM

Might be stating the obvious, but have you checked the distributor itself? Rotor arm might be worn or loose for example. Otherwise, perhaps it's the coil that's on the blink, or assuming it's an electronic dizzy, you might have a goosed amplifier module. It was this last that caused my Escort mk3 to stop working overnight, which really did my head in as the back brakes soon seized and I couldn't even push the damn thing outa my garage.

I haven't checked the distributor internals - one of the bolts holding the cap on is going to take some freeing off before I can do that - but the spark at the HT leads is strong enough that I don't think there's any issues with the coil or distributor.

#11 OFFLINE   wuvvum

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Posted 14 October 2007 - 07:19 PM

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Well it now goes - no idea what was wrong with it. I fiddled and faddled all day yesterday and couldn't get the pissing thing to go, and I veentually got cheesed off with it, put the jump leads across from the Mondeo,and sat there with the choke full out and accelerator to the floor cranking it and cranking it and eventually it fired up - on two cylinders - and then gradually worked its way up to three and eventually four. It's still leaking fuel like an arse from a rusty fuel line under the car, but at least it's alive now. It very narrowly avoided having a match chucked in its tank at one stage, but hopefully it'll be all uphill from here...

#12 OFFLINE   Baz

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Posted 14 October 2007 - 08:17 PM

Blimey....Is it supposed to look like that under the bonnet? :shock:

What're Your plans for it Wuvvum? Is it M.O.Table? :?:

I hope You get it on the road, but if it SHOULD end up being a lost cause, I can think of a good home for those alloys! :wink:
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#13 OFFLINE   wuvvum

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Posted 14 October 2007 - 09:02 PM

Blimey....Is it supposed to look like that under the bonnet? :shock: What're Your plans for it Wuvvum? Is it M.O.Table? :?:

I think it's supposed to look like that. It all looks fairly standard factory issue stuff under there. Apparently it's had the boost turned up a bit and a couple of other minor mods, but nothing drastic. I think it's MoTable - it'll probably need a bit of welding on the sills, and a couple of tyres, but it's had a lot of work done to it before it came off the road (new brake discs etc) so it shouldn't be too bad. I've got all the lights working now apart from the front fogs, but they're not an MoT point anyway. Central locking and electric windows work, and the trip computer seems to do something, but I have no idea how to work it. One of the biggest arses is that it's going to need a pair of wiper blades - they seem to be a different shape to standard ones so my usual pound shop jobbies won't fit, and the wiper arm itself is too fat to take the clip from a standard wiper blade. Is your 11 the same? I suspect an expensive set of unique-fit Bosch blades from Halfords might be the only way to go. Oh, and I've got to find a way of fixing the fuel leak - the Leak Fix putty I bought has slowed it down but because it's being pumped through under pressure it's still finding a way through the gaps. I suspect I'll have to hacksaw out the damaged section and replace it with a length of rubber fuel line. Oh yeah, and the radiator fan is seized so needs freeing off or replacing. And then maybe, FINALLY, I'll be able to drive the pissing thing down the road...

#14 OFFLINE   r.welfare

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Posted 14 October 2007 - 09:14 PM

Awesome. Q-car or what?

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#15 OFFLINE   Milford Cubicle

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Posted 14 October 2007 - 09:17 PM

Is that a 5 Turbo engine in there? It looks great, worth persisting with.

#16 OFFLINE   retrogeezer

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Posted 14 October 2007 - 09:45 PM

yeh - that is pretty fooking nice, be great to surprise a few saxo drivers with it..

#17 OFFLINE   Mr Lobster

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Posted 15 October 2007 - 07:00 AM

Mega! I want one! I'm quite fancying buying another R9 / R11 after seeing this, and quietly kicking myself for selling my R11 Electronic with fully talking bits so cheap!

#18 OFFLINE   MrRegieRitmo

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Posted 15 October 2007 - 11:06 AM

Great car! Look after it.Much prefer the R9 to the R11, not so keen on the R11 front end but appreciate the R11 double headlights are necessary on the R9 Turbo to give it a more impressive look.Infact I prefer the R9 to the 11 from all angles.What you've got there is technically the successor to my 14 - shame there was no R14 turbo though! :o

#19 OFFLINE   55bloke

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Posted 15 October 2007 - 12:19 PM

What you've got there is technically the successor to my 14

More evidence of Renaults bizarre numbering. How could the 11 come AFTER the 14?!!

#20 OFFLINE   MrRegieRitmo

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Posted 15 October 2007 - 12:54 PM

What you've got there is technically the successor to my 14

More evidence of Renaults bizarre numbering. How could the 11 come AFTER the 14?!!

There was never any fluency;6 came before 5,8 came before 5, 6, 7,10 came before 5, 6, 7, 9 (not sure whether 8 or 10 came first)12 came before 5, 7, 9, 11, (not sure whether it came before 6)14 came before 9, 11,15 / 17 came before 9, 11, 14, and about the same time as the 516 came before 5, 6, 7, 9, 11, 12, 14, 15,18 came before 9, 11,20 came before 9, 11, 14, 18, 19,21 came before 19,25 came before 19, 21,30 came before 9, 11, 14, 18, 19, 20, 21, 25.

#21 OFFLINE   Volksy

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Posted 15 October 2007 - 12:58 PM

I thought the 30 came after the 20, as it was essencially a bigger engined version?

#22 OFFLINE   MrRegieRitmo

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Posted 15 October 2007 - 01:00 PM

I thought the 30 came after the 20, as it was essencially a bigger engined version?

I'm not 100% on that but I thought I read the smaller engined 20 was developed slightly after the 30. Could be wrong.

#23 OFFLINE   r.welfare

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Posted 15 October 2007 - 01:16 PM

True! 30 came first, 20 later when Renault realised that they had a big gap between the 16TX and the 30. I guess the 1.65 and 2-litre 20's really replaced the 16, but like Peugeot there was never much 'direct replacement' of models in those days. Peugeot are still doing it now!

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#24 OFFLINE   nigel bickle

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Posted 15 October 2007 - 01:34 PM

Reg -how sad are you.The hood on that anorak must be HUGE!

#25 OFFLINE   Alpineandy

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Posted 17 October 2007 - 12:54 PM

IIRC the 9/11 turbo had a habit of blowing the carb off. The screws/bolts loosened off over time and allowed either the top of the carb or the whole carb (if the mounting bolts loosened) to tap on the inside of the bonnet.Sometimes a real head scratching problem because when it stops it sits back in it's rightful place... :lol:
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#26 OFFLINE   MrRegieRitmo

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Posted 17 October 2007 - 01:18 PM

Reg -how sad are you.The hood on that anorak must be HUGE!

:oops: :lol:




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