70 replies to this topic

[colc]

This may sound bizarre.....but I once had this fault on a V8 Jag...turned out the oil was old, and didn't have the viscosity to pump the hydraulic tappets...........changed the oil, fired first turn.........

[garethj]

The test light on the injectors might not be telling you the whole story, if the voltage isn’t high enough they won’t fire. My ancient K-Jetronic needed 9.6V to fire them which you couldn’t tell from a light, only from an oscilloscope or by pulling the injector out and watching it spray over your shoes.

I think you might have to bite the bullet and pull the rail or one of the individual injectors out.

If it’s not that, it could be that the spark isn’t strong enough which is probably going to cost money to fix

[Barry Cade.]

Easyest way of telling a duff crank sensor- usually- is watch the rev counter when spinning over on the starter- it should register as the ECU usually gets its RPM signal from it. Older cars can have the sparks triggered from the crank sensor, and the injectors triggered from the cam sensor, not familiar with this motor though. Honda's were notorious for the igniter chip going down on the dizzy and having these issues, symptoms for weeks before was the rev counter going apeshit.

[wuvvum]

 

The test light on the injectors might not be telling you the whole story, if the voltage isn’t high enough they won’t fire. My ancient K-Jetronic needed 9.6V to fire them which you couldn’t tell from a light, only from an oscilloscope or by pulling the injector out and watching it spray over your shoes.

I think you might have to bite the bullet and pull the rail or one of the individual injectors out.

If it’s not that, it could be that the spark isn’t strong enough which is probably going to cost money to fix

Sparks looked OK when I connected a lead to a spare spark plug.  The plugs in the engine could be completely shagged, but I'm going to replace those so will hopefully rule that out.

 

Insufficient voltage to the injectors is a possibility - they only seem to be getting 6-8v according to the multimeter.  What would be causing that though?

 

 

Hows the Fuel Filter?

Dunno - not sure where it is (it's not under the bonnet).  It can't be too blocked up though as there's plenty of fuel getting through to the engine bay.

 

 

This may sound bizarre.....but I once had this fault on a V8 Jag...turned out the oil was old, and didn't have the viscosity to pump the hydraulic tappets...........changed the oil, fired first turn.........

That's an interesting one - would it not be the oil being too thick and keeping the tappets pumped up though?  I had that on my old Rover 400 once after revving the engine too hard right after a cold start, but that then resulted in no compression (which was evident from the noise the engine made when turning over).  I'd be surprised if the oil was too thin, especially with a cold engine and sub-zero ambient temperature.

[Barry Cade.]

OK, looks like cam sensor does control injector pulse..

 

[Zelandeth]

How's the engine earth?

Big volt drop there during cranking could cause all sorts of electronic gremlins.

I'd try it with a decent jump lead from a solid bit of metalwork on the engine straight to the battery negative terminal and see if there's any difference.

[wuvvum]

So as you may have seen from the grin thread, this is now working again.  Turned out to be a corroded fuse in a third (hidden) fusebox behind the dash.  I did 30 miles in it yesterday and it seems fine - it's actually starting better than it did before, although that could be because the weather is warmer. 

 

The gearbox is also now changing properly, which means I have four gears rather than the two I had at my disposal previously - which makes for better acceleration off the line and more relaxed cruising, 70mph is now about 2,300rpm rather than the 3,300 it was doing before.

 

It still needs a bit of fettling though - it definitely needs new plugs, and one of the HT leads is knackered - I'll sort that after pay day.  Also the battery tray looks like this:

 

 

so that's going to need sorting for the MOT.

 

I still haven't completely decided what I'm going to do with it yet, but for the moment I'm enjoying wallowing around in it, and hopefully burning less fuel now I've got a full complement of gears.

 

Thanks for all the help / suggestions - I am a tad out of my depth with these modern* engines.

[jonathan_dyane]

Any photos of the beast? Glad it’s back to life

[Frogchod]

Yours accelerates?
Are they supposed to ?
I'm sure my reliant would win a drag race against mine

[wuvvum]

It's actually quite nippy off the line.  Only 170bhp but a fair blob of torque.  Yours will probably have the earlier LG3 engine which is a bit less powerful, but not that much in it (about 20bhp I think).  Should definitely be a lot quicker than a Reliant.

 

Here's a couple of pics.

 

 

 

The interior, a study in wood* and beige leather.

 

 

 

Here is mechanic kitteh checking I've fixorated the engine properly.

 

 

The light conversion to UK spec was evidently done by a fuckwit.  Yes, those are loose bulbs randomly shoved behind the boot carpet, and two of them are still wired up to the indicators - in series with replacement bulb holders to fit amber bulbs, which have been fitted to what used to be the reversing lights.

 

 

I went in there trying to find the wiring for the reversing lights, as now that the originals have been repurposed as indicators I can't see where I'm going when backing up, so I was going to wire in a universal reversing light.  Gave up in the end though, will have to just continue reversing by feel.

[LightBulbFun]

Love me a good ol Barge, glad to see its running well

 

 

did you remove the lights from behind the carpet? I would not one setting fire to it!

[barmatt]

That interior looks ace.

[Schaefft]

Very cool, great to see it didn't need much to get it running again after all. When will you install the supercharger?

[wuvvum]

did you remove the lights from behind the carpet? I would not one setting fire to it!

Yep.  They've not been an issue yet but I didn't want to tempt fate...

 

That interior looks ace.

Now it's working again you can come over and take it for a spin if you want.

 

Very cool, great to see it didn't need much to get it running again after all. When will you install the supercharger?

I'd love a bash in a supercharged version, but I think supercharger + Buick suspension + Norfolk roads = upside down in a ditch.

[barmatt]

Yeah definitely mate, I'd love to give it a spin although that might make me want to buy it.

[Zelandeth]

The Americans really were good at this sort of time period in making cars that despite not being that quick, don't handle, don't stop and don't have any discernable style, are really comfortable and just an overwhelmingly pleasant means of travelling from A to B.

A mate of mine had a Buick Eighty-Nine which despite being utter rubbish in many ways was a truly lovely thing to bumble around in, and could carry you truly interstellar distances without ever getting uncomfortable or tiring. Still kick myself for not buying it. Especially as a month after we sold it, the buyer went and ripped the engine out to stick in a kit car. Car was an absolute minter too in and out so that really stung. We only found out because I found the remains in a local scrappy by complete chance...and I honestly nearly cried. We'd both known the car for nearly 20 years, and if the CoD hadn't already been issued I honestly would have rescued it and found another engine - even if it meant paying over the odds for both the car and a replacement power unit!

[vulgalour]

B E I G E

[garethj]

Excellent news and the car looks awesome.  What was the corroded fuse stopping from working?

[wuvvum]

It was stopping (sufficient) electricity getting to the injectors, so they weren't firing.

[Ghosty]

I love it.

[snagglepuss]

Well done that man. - how hidden was the fusebox?

[wuvvum]

It was up behind the dashboard next to the various ECUs.  It was fairly obvious once I'd unbolted and removed the bottom of the dash.  I'm just more used to fuse boxes being behind obvious and easily removable panels, not requiring actual dismantleage to get to.

[wuvvum]

Yours accelerates?
Are they supposed to ?
I'm sure my reliant would win a drag race against mine

Re performance, I've done some Googling and the 0-60 figure for mine comes back at 9.5 seconds, which feels about right.  The closest match I could find for yours (Electra, not Park Avenue but same engine etc) was 11.3 sec - so not quite as nippy but still a good 6 sec ahead of a Reliant.

[Snipes]

I think that's a whisk faster than a Carina E GTI! Though, that may be the earlier 150bhp model....

[Frogchod]

Re performance, I've done some Googling and the 0-60 figure for mine comes back at 9.5 seconds, which feels about right.  The closest match I could find for yours (Electra, not Park Avenue but same engine etc) was 11.3 sec - so not quite as nippy but still a good 6 sec ahead of a Reliant.

If I get time this weekend I'll do a scientific* comparison on my private* test track.

The same fuckwit done my euro light conversion too it seems, as I also have two bulbs gaffa taped under the boot carpet.

[purplebargeken]

Is cool. Fact!

[Frogchod]

If I get time this weekend I'll do a scientific* comparison on my private* test track.

The same fuckwit done my euro light conversion too it seems, as I also have two bulbs gaffa taped under the boot carpet.

0-60 times are in All carried out on my private test track, no nuns or kittens died.

Reliant 17 seconds.

My loaded Expert van managed 14 seconds (0-100kph) and the XM 12 seconds.

Buick 16 seconds one way, 23 seconds on the return, I think that was because it took off in second rather than first. Another gremlin to sort out

16 seconds is still a bit pants though.

There's an even-ish 130 psi on all cylinders, does this sound about right ? Or am I expecting too much ?

[Schaefft]

Highly doubt the official 0-60 time would be over 10 seconds, 16 isn't even close to what it should be. Its possible it started from 2nd.

 

[Bren]

9.5 seconds? A tad optimistic. To be honest, a car with 170 bhp and as long as the Manchester ship canal any 0-60 times would need to be established with a sundial.

[Squire_Dawson]

 

Only 170bhp

 

Only, he says. Only!!