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For Sale

Jaguar XJR6 Double Madness - One Now for Sale!!!

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#91 OFFLINE   Broadsword

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Posted 08 January 2019 - 08:41 PM

Yes, so ELA remains up for grabs if someone else wishes to dive in. Thanks for visiting Jag central Mr. Hooli. It was nice to meet you. I feel I'm getting a little closer to progress with the Turquoise Shed. I've come across a procedure someone came up for partially propping the inlet manifold in the air with all the fuel lines and cooling pipes still plumbed in, and thus getting access to the throttle body. I took the elbow off the charge cooler, which has revealed more of the throttle body. It doesn't look obviously broken but there is several millimetres lateral play on the shaft compared to ELA. There is less oily grubbiness in the intake system than expected, which is nice.

 

Interestingly while we were flicking through the many receipts in ELAs service history one of the service slips mentions diagnosing a sticky throttle and uneven idle. They then fitted a new throttle body (back in 2006). Interesting coincidence.

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#92 OFFLINE   bangernomics

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Posted 08 January 2019 - 11:39 PM

Who did the red bike sell to in the end? Need to add them to my follow list as have had a veto on xjr due to house apparently?
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#93 OFFLINE   Jazoli

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Posted 09 January 2019 - 07:22 AM

Who did the red bike sell to in the end? Need to add them to my follow list as have had a veto on xjr due to house apparently?

 

Me :)

 

Updates will be coming on the collection fred at some point.


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sigs are shit, wgaf?


#94 OFFLINE   bangernomics

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Posted 09 January 2019 - 09:32 AM

Me :)

Updates will be coming on the collection fred at some point.


Add me to the list when it becomes available will you.
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#95 OFFLINE   Jazoli

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Posted 09 January 2019 - 10:04 AM

Add me to the list when it becomes available will you.

 

Might be best if you post on the thread as I will forget, Its not going anywhere yet though :)


sigs are shit, wgaf?


#96 OFFLINE   Broadsword

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Posted 13 January 2019 - 01:48 PM

Not much to say on this thread recently since I've been scratching my head wondering what is keeping the Turquoise Shed from running.

 

I took a deep breath and set about taking the throttle body off. It is a pretty tough job on a cold driveway. It isn't that the system is complicated, it is purely due to the way everything is crammed in there. My way of doing it was to remove the air filter box, MAF, ducting to plenum, the plenum itself, the elbow going from blower to charge cooler and the bit attached to the back of the charge cooler which joins the intake plenum to a large air hose below going direct into the throttle body. Access to the two 7 mm bolts holding the bit on the back of the charge cooler is nearly impossible so you need to take the intake manifold off. The charge cooler is welded to the intake manifold so with the manifold bolts off I elected to prop the whole thing at an angle in the air, which negates the need to undo fuel and coolant lines. With the manifold out of the way you can just about get that strange ally air duct plenum off the back and pull it off the air hose. It was fighting me every step of the way since the air hose was welded to the duct. It was then equally difficult to get the air hose off the throttle body. It looked like it has never been off.

 

The throttle body is bolted to the blower with four 10 mm bolts which came out easy. A little tug and the TB pops off. There is no gasket. Before that you need to disconnect the throttle cable but that is easy. The last step is to disconnect the coolant lines from the TB. Oh and don't forget to unplug the idle control valve and throttle position sensor. The coolant lines were particularly stuck and it took ages to pop them off without doing damage. After all that the TB was liberated, which felt like a victory.

 

Suffice to say the TB was very dirty. It was also partially seized. The idle control valve area was particularly clogged up with carbon. It took a while to clean everything up. I had the idle control valve out to clean that area properly but did not touch the throttle position sensor since it is either broken or working in which case me removing it would render it out of spec anyway. All I did with the TPS was look if the resistance value changed as I opened and closed the throttle flap. The values seemed to change from 500 ohms to 1500 in a seemingly consistent fashion. It seems to do something then.

 

On the end of the throttle body where you find the springs and quadrant for the throttle cable there was considerable play on the shaft. This appeared to be preventing the throttle flap from moving smoothly. Cue a box of fibre washers I had bought for £2.99 ages ago proclaiming they would come in handy one day. Now was the day. A couple of washers were ideally suited for taking up said slack. Now the cleaned up TB operates smoothly. Not much more I could do with it so the next day I put everything back together. Reassembly took about 2 hours, which is pretty good.

 

Nervous first startup and oh dear things have gone backwards. The engine won't idle at all. Either keep your foot on the throttle or it will just die. Operation of the throttle pedal is now very smooth, however, and I suspect it can be revved more freely, but it was running rough so I just sort of kept things at about 2500 rpm for a bit.

 

I have also checked that the fuel pumps are working properly. If you crack the flue line open at the fuel rail, petrol gushes out so I think the pumps are working ok. Everything is still pointing to the throttle body so I have ordered a spare from eBay. At £60 including postage for the correct throttle body it is worth a go. Chances are the throttle position sensor is playing up. A live readout on OBD2 scanner was giving erratic numbers when the engine was just about running. Bouncing between 0% and 23% with me pulsing the throttle just trying to get it going. From my understanding at idle you should see 10%.

 

So no good news in XJR6 world right now. Got zero interest in ELA either, which is depressing. As soon as I put it on for sale, several inexpensive (mostly broken) examples have flooded the market, which might not be helping things.

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#97 OFFLINE   Hooli

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Posted 13 January 2019 - 04:12 PM

That looks fun* to get too, no wonder it's never been cleaned.


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#98 OFFLINE   Broadsword

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Posted 13 January 2019 - 04:24 PM

There is another one of these out there for sale with exactly the same sort of problem, and I have come across a few suffering from similar issues before. I had a word with the owner of the other broken one for sale. He had done an enormous amount of work, replaced absolutely everything under the sun *EXCEPT* the throttle body on his.

 

Always exactly the same story: they sat for an extended period forgotten and start to run poorly after that. It's like a strange disease that these cars catch when they are neglected. It would quite nice to get to the bottom of this with that in mind. I think the last thing people want to tackle is the throttle body. Now that I've done it once I can get everything off pretty quickly again, not a real problem. If you subbed this job out to a mechanic you would loose a great deal of money hence people give up.

 

When the replacement throttle body arrives I will disassemble everything again but leave the TB plugged in and try to probe the voltage out the throttle position sensor, which I should then be able to compare to the replacement part. Ideally I would have a clone of the dealer-level diagnostic software, which lets you calibrate the TPS and probe all the modules properly, but I can't find one for sale that I'm sure will do the job.



#99 OFFLINE   Hooli

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Posted 13 January 2019 - 04:29 PM

Can you find out the values it should have from the manual? I've not read it to see if they are in there, I just know they are given for my bike to make the TPS easier to check.

 

Talking of the bike, I had a failed TPS on it years ago that passed every test & gave a smooth reading when tested. Yet it didn't work on a running engine. Turned out the ferrite core the coil is wrapped around had cracked so the vibes from the engine was moving it in & out of contact with the bit that swipes it. Just a thought if you're stuck for explanations.


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#100 OFFLINE   Broadsword

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Posted 13 January 2019 - 04:35 PM

The value should be around 0.54 volts at idle from my research. The workshop manual doesn't go into fine specifics like that though. I suspect that Jag technicians just plugged in the diagnostic unit and worked as instructed by the unit. I've seen a video of the procedure and the computer tells you what to do basically.



#101 OFFLINE   bangernomics

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Posted 13 January 2019 - 06:25 PM

There is another one of these out there for sale with exactly the same sort of problem, and I have come across a few suffering from similar issues before. I had a word with the owner of the other broken one for sale. He had done an enormous amount of work, replaced absolutely everything under the sun *EXCEPT* the throttle body on his.

Always exactly the same story: they sat for an extended period forgotten and start to run poorly after that. It's like a strange disease that these cars catch when they are neglected. It would quite nice to get to the bottom of this with that in mind. I think the last thing people want to tackle is the throttle body. Now that I've done it once I can get everything off pretty quickly again, not a real problem. If you subbed this job out to a mechanic you would loose a great deal of money hence people give up.

When the replacement throttle body arrives I will disassemble everything again but leave the TB plugged in and try to probe the voltage out the throttle position sensor, which I should then be able to compare to the replacement part. Ideally I would have a clone of the dealer-level diagnostic software, which lets you calibrate the TPS and probe all the modules properly, but I can't find one for sale that I'm sure will do the job.


Have IDS/SDD but in mcr.

#102 OFFLINE   Broadsword

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Posted 13 January 2019 - 06:33 PM

Do you know where I can buy one of those units and roughly how much they might be?

#103 OFFLINE   bangernomics

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Posted 13 January 2019 - 06:43 PM

Do you know where I can buy one of those units and roughly how much they might be?

Old dell laptop, image of hdd (I'd use a new sdd), and a cable. Probably about £250 all in or less if you have the laptop and go with a crap hdd.

Trying to remember what the cables called as it needs a hardware signature akin to hasp

Google about for the jag cable, I should do a batch and bung em on eBay but nobbers. I've also got the MB Star stuff somewhere too and most LPG stuff.

#104 OFFLINE   Broadsword

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Posted 13 January 2019 - 06:51 PM

I have an old Think Pad that might work for those purposes, it is slightly harder to determine what the correct dongle/cable thing is. Looks like there are/have been suitable clones out there. Software is probably the easiest bit.

#105 OFFLINE   The Moog

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Posted 13 January 2019 - 07:17 PM

Fair play for you working in the cold - not something I would want to do today.

January is a bit of a tough time of the year to sell anything with people skint after Christmas

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#106 OFFLINE   Hooli

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Posted 13 January 2019 - 07:51 PM

The value should be around 0.54 volts at idle from my research. The workshop manual doesn't go into fine specifics like that though. I suspect that Jag technicians just plugged in the diagnostic unit and worked as instructed by the unit. I've seen a video of the procedure and the computer tells you what to do basically.

 

Aye the voltage is more important than the actual resistance anyway as that is what the ECU will actually use. I'd assume if you can get a probe it when fitted that opening the throttle with the ignition on would show a smooth increase in voltage all the way to full throttle from a good TPS.

 

My bike not being very advanced gave the resistance to set the rough position of the TPS before checking the voltage.


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Opinions expressed are those of this cunt, not any other cunt. They do not represent the views of those responsible for this forum.
Like any true Englishman I'm never unintentionally rude. If you're offended by this post, good as that is what was my intention.

 

Champion cunt in the cunt count 2018.


#107 OFFLINE   Broadsword

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Posted 13 January 2019 - 09:22 PM

Well, trying to sell ELA on an eBay auction went nowhere, but I’m not going to rush readvertising it. I think people will be more interested in the very cheap ones on there for the next few days. For the time being it will only be on sale here for the shitters price of £2800.

#108 OFFLINE   bangernomics

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Posted 13 January 2019 - 09:43 PM

I have an old Think Pad that might work for those purposes, it is slightly harder to determine what the correct dongle/cable thing is. Looks like there are/have been suitable clones out there. Software is probably the easiest bit.


Called mongoose or something? I paid £70 for mine, hdd image was for an old dell so I that's what I bought.

I'll have a rummage about for you, weirdly the software was the tough bit to keep activated. Go beyond a certain update and bang it stops working and it's reinstall time. Go beyond a certain date, guess what...bang.

I reset the bios date on mine so it never moves forward according to the software. I actually wrote the date in sharpie so I wouldn't forget it as no Jag for a few months . Currently browsing the cheaper end after being told Ela was out of bounds.

#109 OFFLINE   Broadsword

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Posted 13 January 2019 - 09:55 PM

No Jag = sad times. I’m hoping that going through this process with the Turquoise Shed might answer the question. “Should you risk buying a cheap XJR6 with strange running issues?” Also I think it is worth trying to save them since number may dwindle quickly. Many have been lost to racing and butchering for the glorious drive train.

Thanks for looking up the diagnostic thing. I mean having that sort of proper diagnostic software would be quite a luxury. I might manage without but the idea of being able to calibrate things, have proper live sensor data and to be able to real all the car’s modules is an appealing idea.
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#110 OFFLINE   bangernomics

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 09:25 AM

Not wrong, I literally couldn't have afforded to run my last x350 super if I didn't have the software. Every time a light came on or a gearbox limp happened or a handbrake wanted putting into service mode...blah blah blah it'd be £80 and that's the local indie. Perish the thought that stratstones would even talk to me for less than £250.

I'll look at making one up and if it's not financially appealing when done I'll bung it on the fleabay of misery.
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#111 OFFLINE   Broadsword

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Posted Yesterday, 04:13 PM

While waiting for the replacement throttle body to arrive for the Turquoise Shed, I started dismantling everything I needed to get the TB off. When I started to crack off the intake manifold nuts and bolts I realized that on the back end of the engine a bracket for a couple of electrical connectors had accidentally got trapped between the manifold and the head. I immediately reasoned that this was why the engine was running worse after cleaning the TB. This was only spotted due to it being a bright day. I corrected the schoolboy error and put everything back together for a quick test run. The car fired up and settled at a highish idle (1500 rpm). Throttle pedal still feels good (might need a better return spring), so I went for a drive to get the engine properly warmed up. Besides it was nearly out of fuel. The car was still bogging down under load. I kept going though driving light throttle, which the car seems to tolerate.

Somewhere between fueling and getting home some ideas were formulating in my head. I had cracked off the fuel line into the fuel rail and found that there was ample fuel flow with the ignition on. Then I remembered that when I took the return line off it was bone dry. I had another look after it had been running today. The return line was still bone dry. Looks like it has been dry for some time. I also used my mechanic's stethoscope on the fuel injectors just to get an idea if something was amiss. They were fine and a multi-meter revealed the resistance across the terminals on each injector was the same. Then I fired ELA up, let it run briefly and cracked the return fuel line on the back of the fuel (LUCAS!) regulator. Sure enough fuel poured out. At this point the spare throttle body arrived in the post. Changing the fuel pressure regulator is easy to I will do that first.

TL;DR I suspect the fuel pressure regulator on the Turquoise Shed has failed in some fashion. I will substitute parts between cars ASAP.
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