Sold Jaguar XJR6 Double Madness - Double Sold

[sporty-shite]

Yeah, I was thinking that and a very fine brush, but of course I have to be very careful not to break any pins.

I used an old electric toothbrush and isopropyl alcohol on the clocks of the Spanish Rocket. Worked a treat.

[Pete-M]

You all hated these things when I had one.

[Guest Hooli]

You all hated these things when I had one.

 

Don't believe you, I've wanted one since they first came out.

[Minimad5]

Stop it.

Always wanted one of these, since Pete took us too & from N.E.C

 

Do throw us figures, when you decide.

[Guest Hooli]

Yeah I don't* want to know figures when you decide either...

[jon928se]

Yeah, I was thinking that and a very fine brush, but of course I have to be very careful not to break any pins.

De-Oxit FTW

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Guest Hooli]

Broadsword workshop manuals are here https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/xj-xj6-xjr6-x300-26/x300-service-manual-19117/

 

They may help a bit.

[SRi05]

How does the xjr compare to the xj6 sport? I'm quite intruiged to try one after having yours, but the words supercharged intimidate me a bit with the potential liability

[somewhatfoolish]

XJ6 Sport was just a trim level really, at most it had bigger wheels and maybe stiffer spring and damper rates; the XJR actually has a small warp drive in the engine room, complete with dilithium crystals and a miniature Chief O'Brien.

[Guest Hooli]

I know on '40s the Sport was 20mm lower & stiffer, running gear was standard.

 

Plus being a lower trim level most of the buttons & toys were missing, obviously* for weight saving to make it faster.

[Lacquer Peel]

Doing it right there sir.

 

On insurance value, I always declare £1500 even if the car cost me £150.

 

There is some algorithm that says that sub £1000 cars are higher risk so you can get higher quotes, or some places even refusing cover.

I have been doing that for years but I had one insurer come back to me with practically scrap value as a valuation for my car despite me saying "it's worth £1k to me", that was over the phone though, they don't scrutinise online quotes as much.

 

These Jags are very appealing, do they come with proper velour seats?

[Pete-M]

How does the xjr compare to the xj6 sport? I'm quite intruiged to try one after having yours, but the words supercharged intimidate me a bit with the potential liability

There's no real liability with a supercharger.

 

There's no real fun to be had in a none-supercharged Jag.

[SRi05]

There's no real liability with a supercharger.

 

There's no real fun to be had in a none-supercharged Jag.

To be fair, this jag is still the quickest car I've ever had first 200+hp mota. It's fast to me dammit

[Broadsword]

TL;DR. Cleaned up ruined looking ECU, but it hasn't fixed the problems.

 

So today I had some time to tackle the wet looking ECU. Removal is easy with the kick panel removed. After disconnecting the battery, I loosened the two retaining bolts and unplugged the large red and black block connectors. At this point I found the red plug was full of water and the black one dry. The ECU casing is very, very corroded. It was just starting to go through when I brushed the worst of the rust off. What makes things worse is that the soaked sound insulation sits flush with the back of the ECU, hence the horrendous rust.

 

After blasting the connecting pins with copious amounts of electrical contact cleaner, I went about opening the ECU cover. On the side where it says Sagem-Lucas three screws were fine. On the rusty side one screw was really corroded and I had to bend the case open, breaking the offending corner. Inside there was moisture towards the bottom of the two sandwiched boards, but on the whole it appeared intact. Corrosion was on the case, not the boards. I'm no expert though. I'm a chemist, not an electrician. So I set about cleaning everything as best as possible, then used electrical contact cleaner and compressed air once all the debris was removed. The same was repeated on the other side of the case, which was somewhat cleaner. Upon reassembly I wrapped the ECU with cling film and electrical tape.

 

I sprayed quite a lot of contact cleaner into the plugs going into the ECU. Rust poured out the one that has been wet (i.e. the red). I dried up the whole area best I could. At this point it was dark and cold so I pushed to have a go starting the car. Everything hooked up I reconnected the battery and to my surprise the car fired up. Alas, the running issues have not been resolved. It idles ok (throttle still sticking) so it is a high idle, but apply any load and it just bogs down. It can't rev about around 1700 rpm. To drive it can pull itself along at a steady pace at tickover and just keeps going. To be fair is the ECU is fried then I'm not surprised. What is a surprise is that is runs at all. There was probably 20 ml of water in the red block connector. On the other hand I could probably do a better job cleaning up the pins and the plug. Not sure how to clean up the plug. It might be very rusty inside that plug.

 

I have the option of substituting the ECU out of ELA, which I will have time to do next week if all else fails. I can't imagine the problem being anything else than the ECU at this point given how ruined the current one looks.

 

By the way price-wise. I get a feeling that the turquoise shed will never be quite good enough to make much at all on the open market. If it could be got to run well and with a bit of tidying up and a replacement bonnet (not too much effort), I would imagine £1500, or about half of a "cheap" one on the open market. Maybe it could become a forum bike one day. ELA if anyone is wondering or interested. For me to exit that with a small profit in compensation for all the effort of acquiring it and fixing it up for the MOT, it stands me £3000. It is solid, working well has copious history and the wheels have been refurbished. So at £3000 it is cheaper than the competition out there, most are not as good as they pretend to be anyway. They all lie, I don't. Admittedly when I bought the turquoise shed, the thought of cashing in on ELA while still retaining an XJR6 was a big influence. Due to current circumstances I need to make a bit of profit on the odd car on a regular basis. With such fleet rationalization in mind, I should probably ask if anyone wishes to call dibs on the red bike for it will be available. I have driven lots of Jags now and although it is cosmetically somewhat challenged (most are though so why be picky), it is remarkably solid, has a near perfect interior and is a very, very good drive. Brilliant car. Please form an orderly queue.

 

I will cover the my experiences on the differences between Sovereign/XJ Sport/XJR in a later post. This one is dragging on.

[Guest Hooli]

That's an impressively rotten case.

[Broadsword]

To be fair, this jag is still the quickest car I've ever had first 200+hp mota. It's fast to me dammit

The 3.2 isn't slow by any stretch, but when you go from the XJR back to the Sport it feels like you are barely moving. I don't think the blower adds any additional liability as such. It's a bit tighter in the engine bay, but more importantly you have large red letters on top of the engine to remind you how cool a customer you are. The problems you encounter are the same as across the range. The main difficulty these days perhaps is getting one on a budget.

[GeordieInExile]

I love these and next year might try and swap my 9-5 Aero for one.

[Broadsword]

I had another go at cleaning up the contacts going into the ECU today. With some daylight I found that the red plug going into the ECU (i.e. what is connected to the car) was still quite wet and dirty. I spent a while cleaning up the pins on the ECU with a brush and contact cleaner, the same for the plugs on the car. Plenty of crap came out. While I was poking around I cleaned up the MAF sensor, fitted a new air filter and also cleaned the crank position sensor as best I could. With everything buttoned up again, the engine still doesn't run properly. Apply any load and it feels like it is misfiring on all cylinders. Not good. I'm away tomorrow so no more opportunity to tackle it before the new year. I think an important clue is that the check engine light does not illuminate at all. It is also a bit quiet when you turn the ignition on. I wonder if the fuel pumps are activating properly (will have to compare to other cars on the fleet). I will just have to systematically swap bits off ELA to diagnose things further. Without the other XJR there to help, proceeding from this point would be difficult.

 

I also poked around a bit more with the throttle to get a handle on the sticking throttle. You can stick you hand under the blower and operate the throttle flap directly. It is definitely sticky so the TB will have to come off.

[Guest Hooli]

That does sound pump related if you can't hear them running properly although there are fault codes that should appear for low fuel pressure.

[Broadsword]

The only fault code I can currently pull from it is P1621, which apparently is a complete red herring and doesn't help any sort of diagnosis.

[Pete-M]

You've quite possibly knackered the airflow meter. Does it run with the afm unplugged?

[Broadsword]

I would be surprised if I broke the MAF since I only cleaned up the debris off the gauze. The resistor(s) are quite hidden and I didn’t disassemble the unit. Before I touched anything (including the ECU) I tired to start the engine with the sensor unplugged, it wouldn’t fire. I really was expecting it to run to some extent with the MAF unplugged since any other car I’ve had can.

[Broadsword]

I'm back home now so continued work on diagnosing the Turquoise Shed's ills. With ELA nearby I started to substitute parts. First up the ECU. On ELA there was no dampness at all where the ECU resides, which made me happy. A couple of minutes later I had the ECU off and to my horror there was corrosion on the pins. It seems that even the slightest amount of condensation attacks the ECU. It did not take much to clean up though and we were back on track. With ELAs ECU in the Turquoise Shed I fired it up and noticed that having the good ECU in there made no difference whatsoever. That is quite a surprise. The check engine light still doesn't work by the way. Either that is still a clue of the bulb is gone.

 

Next I tried changing the MAF, this made no difference either. Then I stated swapping coil packs. All I learnt from this is that coil 3 is a bit suspect. Coil packs do not seem to be the underlying problem though. The car will idle ok, but put any real load on it and it wants to go backwards. I was also struggling a bit with the park switch. I had to go put it into neutral, then back to park a few times in order for it to crank. Cranking is a little slow but the battery is strong. Then I had a look behind the panel where most X300s have a glovebox to check if any moisture had got into the electronics, but it is all tidy and bone dry behind there.

 

At this point I wanted to put ELA back together to make sure it was ok. With the ECU in its rightful place, ELA fired up and drove perfect. Gosh it can get a shift on that thing. I'm not brave enough to put the manky ECU in ELA. Would be interesting to see the result though. Note that ELA is not on its original ECU either and the security cage which is supposed to be over the plugs is missing.

 

Tomorrow I will continue by swapping the crank sensor. While I was working on the car people were passing by admiring the XJRs. One lady said she knew someone in a neighboring village who is selling an XJ and passed my name on. No idea what it is, but worth a look potentially if the owner gets in touch.

 

!!Note to all X300 owners. It is very much worth checking the condition of your ECU as moisture seems to be a real problem with these!!

[Minimad5]

Yikes, not good that.

Well done for cracking on and sorting it out.

[Broadsword]

Back to answering SRi05s question about the difference between the XJR and the Sport. I think in order to answer it you also have to compare to the Sovereign (I have had all in X300 flavour now). In the case of the Sovereign it still has the underlying good XJ chassis but in my opinion the steering is a little too light and the suspension just a little too soft to be a blast on the A-roads rather than the M-roads, where they always excel. XJ40 Sovereign (I also had one of those) drives just as the X300. I don't like the LWB versions as much, they look all out of proportion.

 

Moving to the Sport, obviously I'm very familiar with the 3.2, but have also driven a 4.0 Sport. I wanted a 4.0 Sport for a good while, but never quite found the right car. Many other distractions have come up since. The suspension is lower and the wheels wider, the steering is also heavier. It's going to be no match for the Germans (not that I know from experience), but I think the Sport is a good compromise. By having a firmer suspension you can lean just a little more so that sweeping A-roads become enjoyable, yet absolutely none of the comfort or refinement is lost in my opinion. The 4.0 is better in the sense that you get great thumps of torque, whereas the 3.2 although very enjoyable is a revvy unit.

 

Now the XJR is harder and lower again. It sits on those brilliant wheels with 255/45/17 tyres. The ride can be crashy on very bad roads and you can get a bit of tramlining, which is not something you expect from an XJ, but the level of connectedness to the road is improved. It feels really, really nice, but yeah it very different from the Sport. It is approaching chuckable. There is so much torque that if you just poke the throttle down 1/4 for about a second it leaps to 30 Mph, another prod and it leaps to 50. Highly intoxicating.

 

The quality that links them all is that ability to glide along, which seems unique to the XJ. I've never driven a manual X300, but that would probably be a real treat. The Getrag gearbox is very crude apparently, but it changes the character of the car completely I read. The rarest of the rare, the manual XJR6 was described in one YouTube video as being like a sporting GT tractor, sounds fun.

 

Other Jags I can compare to now having had one is the XK8, which is absolutely stunning, but the XJR is more chuckable (and carries passengers!). The XK8 cabin is the nicest of any car I know and they do drive really well. The ally bodied XJ is very different from what went previous. The ride quality is not as good as the older cars but road-holding is better. We had a 3.6 V8 during the summer and it was very good on the big open roads. In town you feel really feel the size of it, which bothered me for some reason. I always feel the X300 wraps round you like a glove. The 4.0 X308 (flipped one recently) is very keen in terms of performance and benefits from the more advanced gearbox, I liked it. Finally the X308 XJR which I had recernly with the R1 pack. It was noticeably faster than the supercharged 6 and is utter insanity in terms of how fast the engine propels the big heavy body around. It felt like a supercar in terms of straight line speed. Handling was more sophisticated than the XJR6 and the brakes were amazing. They are trouble with a capital T though if you buy a rough one as you saw from my account.

 

 

If I had enough money to keep two really good Jags and stop there, I would have an XJR6 and an XK8. They are the most special to me.

 

Having written this post I realize now I've had quite a few Jags in a short space of time. I like Jags.

[Broadsword]

Today I had time to swap crank sensors between the two supercharged cars. Removal and refitting is very easy, just a a plug and a 8 mm bolt secures the sensor in it's bracket. Suffice to say putting the known good sensor on the Turquoise Shed made absolutely no difference. Then I remembered back to a 4.0 Sport I tried buying a year a go, but it kept breaking down. In the end the owner claimed that changing the coolant temperature sensor got it going again. The car was too far gone in other ways for it to be worth buying, but I looked the problem up and apparently this sensor talks to the ECU and in some cases can cause running issues. It's not the temperature sensor to the gauge on the dash, it is a separate sensor next to it on the thermostat housing.

 

I unplugged said sensor and cranked the car. Interestingly it made a difference. The engine turned over more enthusiastically and idled at 1000 rpm. Then it kind of got worse again. I plugged it back and removed it again and it seemed to do the same thing. The sensor is cheap and I have it on its way express from Euro Car Parts to hopefully try it tomorrow. You have to be careful fitting it because the thermostat housing is soft ally.

 

I'm going to get ELA ready for sale this week. The Red Bike is for sale.

[bangernomics]

Much want for this and it’d fill the driveway up beautifully.

[Broadsword]

More progress on the Turquoise Shed. I popped the new coolant temperature sensor in (only took seconds to fit) and the car was more willing to run. I attempted to drive around. What I figured out was that with 1/8th throttle applied you can actually drive and make progress without it misfiring. Any more and it just bogs down. Let off the gas and it picks up again.

 

My attention has now turned to the throttle body. I had a little go trying to get to it. My plan was to remove the intake plenum and try and get in that way. I couldn't get the ally bit on the back of the intercooler off though, which would have given me access to the hose that goes into the throttle body. I did poke a borescope down there but it didn't reveal much.

 

I put everything back together again and re-examined the sticking throttle. Now that I look at it more carefully I think the cables are not stuck at all and all the issues are on the throttle body itself. I realized when operating the quadrant on the throttle body by hand (i.e. bypassing the cables) that there is about a 1/4 inch of play in and out on the shaft. If you push everything back in then for a short while the throttle feels normal at the pedal and the idle speed is brought back down to 1000 rpm. It quickly drifts back out again though. Very strange. Unfortunately the throttle body will have to come off it seems, which is very difficult.

 

 

IMG_5626.MOV

[Guest Hooli]

Sounds like good progress there.

 

I wonder if it's all the same fault? that much 'flap' in the flap could be massively upsetting the fueling compared to what the car thinks it is going to need.

[Broadsword]

I've never seen a throttle body go strange like that, but we will see when I finally get to it. At the moment the most amazing possibility is that the ECU might not be the problem at all. Maybe Lucas prefers to be submerged in water? I think the best way to proceed will be to remove the inlet manifold. The intercooler is welded to it, so once removed there should be much more access. Better to work from the top than the bottom I think. As you can see from the photo below, it's pretty tight in there. I'm quite convinced the engine itself is ok as such.

 

The Turquoise Shed will go off to the farm for storage while I use the weekend to get ELA ready for sale.