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It is just so Super (Sentinel).

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118 replies to this topic

#91 OFFLINE   Datsuncog

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 04:19 PM

ETA: There seems to be general agreement on that. The question was asked, however, what is the legal position with using an existing company's IP for your own use? Any ideas?

 

As far as IP is concerned, commercial names and logos remain the property of the business concerned even if they're historic versions, and companies can and do start getting arsey if they hear that someone's using their name on something without permission. Some are maybe more relaxed than others, especially if it's not on some sort of profit-making venture (I'm guessing that the reconstruction and eventual sale of these leviathans doesn't keep you in Dom Perignon and Rolexes?); but because Boots UK is now owned by giant US conglomerate Walgreens, I'd have a care since giant US conglomerates aren't exactly renowned for a breezy, carefree approach to IP law.

 

It's probably worth contacting Boots' Head Office and asking to speak to someone in their communications and marketing team. Emphasise the local and family connection; stress that you're not going to be using their name in a pejorative way or to pretend you're in any way a Boots employee, just an enthusiast who wants their project to look historically accurate.

 

Any business with half a clue would be all over this like Billy Bunter in Asda bakery aisle when the 'final reduction' yellow stickers appear, as a golden opportunity for free positive publicity, the chance of borrowing it for promo purposes once complete, connecting with 'heritage' and 'core values' and all that marketing-guff, etc etc.

 

If you're really lucky and they've got community engagement cash swilling round unspent for this financial quarter, they might even chuck you a few pennies for the paint.

 

Unfortunately, not all businesses have half a clue... so success is not 100% assured. But the old phrase "better to beg forgiveness than to ask permission" may well work for some situations, but most assuredly does not cut a great deal of ice in a registered trademark lawsuit.

 

But hey, if you try approaching them and they don't go for it, then how about a very similar livery for the totally fictitious 'Poots The Chemist'...

 

 

(Source: Datsuncog Minor is a commercial solicitor for a certain high-profile Oxford Street retailer, with a particular focus on Intellectual Property law. He is not, it has to be said, a shiteist.)


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#92 ONLINE   tooSavvy

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 04:46 PM

https://goo.gl/images/a7aw2U

Belfast...

s-l500.jpg

Or another
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Wallsend?.....it's not the End of the Walled ;<)

35942490325_0815d58667.jpgSUCKS


#93 OFFLINE   JimH

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 04:51 PM

That seems to be the gist of it. If you use it without asking then they will get all Biblical on your bottom and start throwing around cease and desist requests before the pant has dried. If you ask then most seem to be fairly happy. Given that there will be a fair bit of money in the sign writing we don't fancy going over it with Valspar on pain of being sued into oblivion.

 

There are a few models on sale of early Boots vehicles around so they can't be too averse to it being used.

 

I think we'll start with a nice friendly letter. If that doesn't work we'll try an even friendlier one.


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#94 OFFLINE   3VOM

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 06:23 PM

We where doing a bit of autotesting over the weekend and this turned up,
Certainly made me think about this thread.

attachicon.gif20181021_103215.jpg

Isn't that Doubleboost's mate? I'm sure that is the one that has appeared on his Youtube channel.


What's the retail on one of those plumbed in fire extinguisher systems?


#95 OFFLINE   loserone

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 06:32 PM

I'm sure a friendly letter may even result in a design / specifications for sizes and colours..

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#96 OFFLINE   3VOM

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 06:48 PM

One photo that took my eye was this one here. This was owned by the Sheffield grocers (they must have been more than that to justify the massive investment in one of these things) Arthur Davy and Sons...

 

I really like the big box body and butch looking tail gate and doors. Unless some Sheffield local historian knows different it appears that the waggon is painted mostly red.

 

What I'm looking for is some ideas of suitable liveries for a wagon like the box van above. The rules are:

 

- Preferrably black, dark blue or green. However, other colours/ shades will be considered.

- Absolutely not red, yellow or white as the main colour.

- Household names are good but not mandatory

- The livery needs to fit in with the box van body - a quarrier would be unlikely to have a box van

- It would be nice if the nature of the buiness was nice. I'm not sure I fancy having a box van owned by Scruttocks Maggot Farmers and Rotten Carcass Disposers Ltd. That said, I really fancy a fag company livery but I haven't found one yet.

- One oddity about the livries for most steam waggons is that they have a big, featureless front apron where most lorries had their radiators. This brings both benefits and drawbacks when designing a livery.

 

Already under consideration:

 

- Lipton's Tea (Lyons has already been done)  - Dark green, gold leaf lettering, black chassis

- Tate and Lyle Sugar Refiners - Dark blue, gold leaf lettering, black chassis

- Boots Manufacturing Chemists - Dark olive green, gold leaf lettering, black chassis

- Shore Porters' Society, Aberdeen - Dark blue, white lettering, red wheels, black chassis

- Pickfords Removals and Storage - Dark blue, white lettering, red wheels, black chassis

- Just making up some shit that looks nice.

 

Thoughts, suggestions and pointers gratefully recieved.

From what was said previously about these wagons being suitable for heavy loads over long distances then tobacco companies would be unlikely to use them. I'm wondering if the Sheffield business included baking or butchery which might justify the large load capacity. Further thinking along those lines says chemical or mineral industry. So, flour, limestone, cement, chemical powder type products. Is it possible they were used for transporting soap or washing powder type material?


What's the retail on one of those plumbed in fire extinguisher systems?


#97 OFFLINE   martc

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 08:15 PM

Livery? Here you go, a nice practical dark green and an obscure 'who'd have known it' autoshite connection (and bonus Skoda 706 peaking around the corner)...

 

skoda sentinel 2.jpg

 

or for autoshite trips out, try this combination...

 

skoda sentinel.jpg

 

Clearly these two are victims of the VAG emission scandal, they may be subject to a recall.


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#98 OFFLINE   Vin

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 08:22 PM

I thought I would add to the Sentinel love here...

 

Two images from a collection of 35mm slides I've recently scanned, so never been seen before!!!..

 

Hawerby Park steam rally, Lincolnshire, 13th & 14th June 1970...

 

BEV 467 - 'Holmevalian'

 

PICT0007.JPG

 

and what I believe is AW 3321, mainly because of the cab design, but I think the 'clincher' is the indicators on the mudguards...

 

PICT0009.JPG

 

 


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#99 OFFLINE   LightBulbFun

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Posted 16 November 2018 - 11:36 PM

Livery? Here you go, a nice practical dark green and an obscure 'who'd have known it' autoshite connection (and bonus Skoda 706 peaking around the corner)...

 

attachicon.gifskoda sentinel 2.jpg

 

or for autoshite trips out, try this combination...

 

attachicon.gifskoda sentinel.jpg

 

Clearly these two are victims of the VAG emission scandal, they may be subject to a recall.

 

is that a Super with a bus body on it?

 

I was wondering if it would be possible to build a bus body one, paint in Autoshite colours and have the Autoshite official bus service  :mrgreen:



#100 OFFLINE   Zelandeth

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Posted 17 November 2018 - 12:06 AM

How about Cadbury chocolate?

Violently purple with white lettering...
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#101 OFFLINE   martc

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Posted 17 November 2018 - 10:30 AM

How about Cadbury chocolate?

 

 

Or pre-merger - a Fry's Cocoa (no idea what the colour scheme is though).

 

2046047437_0be39091ff.jpg


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#102 OFFLINE   JimH

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Posted 17 November 2018 - 10:41 AM

I've not seen the Fry's one - that is worth some more research. Cadbury's has already been done and while the Shepherd Neame one is tempting it's not a van body but a drop side with a canvas tilt. The other problem is the livery looks a bit rubbish.

 

Boots has hit bit of a problem because I can find no record of Boots owning any Supers. It's not a deal breaker but it might make it harder to get the story straight in my head.


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#103 OFFLINE   DodgeRover

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Posted 17 November 2018 - 01:08 PM

Will you be knocking up a suitable dray/ trailer to draw behind once the lorry is done?

Were they ever popular as showmans vehicles?

#104 OFFLINE   JimH

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Posted 17 November 2018 - 07:21 PM

We did a trailer for the last one. Used it once, decided it was a complete pain in the neck and the thing lay in the yard for years rotting away. The other thing is that if you look at the tax classification of historic vehicle one of the exclusions is that you aren't allowed to draw a trailer. I know lots of people do and I doubt you would ever be pulled for it but I wouldn't like to argue my corner in court in the event of an incident.

 

I'm not aware of any Sentinels being used by showmen but as with most things it was usually tried once.



#105 OFFLINE   artdjones

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Posted 17 November 2018 - 09:11 PM

A nice early curtainsider dray here:-fcdfb8c57f0c4a59befd4bc6bb55f286.jpg

#106 OFFLINE   Noel Tidybeard

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Posted 17 November 2018 - 09:25 PM

maybe they didn't use sentinels but i'd be surprised if they used model Ts

 

smiths crisps.jpg


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#107 OFFLINE   MarvinsMom

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Posted 17 November 2018 - 09:26 PM

does it have to be an "authentic" livery?

 

why not make you're own up? maybe stick to darker colours as these will wear better in service in stead of a lighter colour, plus kawazaki green isn't going to look right, no matter what.

 

so maybe navy blue, brunswick green and maroon? especially maroon, with yellow or black or both for lining. cos it needs to be lined out.

 

and then use you companies name on the side, with the 'phone number.

 

i've seen a few steam rollers painted up like that, i'm assuming by owners who are also contractors and maybe use the engine as an advertising thing?


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#108 OFFLINE   rml2345

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Posted 17 November 2018 - 11:52 PM

Can't offer any suggestions on livery sadly but having just caught up with the thread I'm in awe of your engineering skills. It's bloody fascinating.
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#109 OFFLINE   Zelandeth

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Posted 18 November 2018 - 12:02 AM

That Smith's one could look great actually.

Any engineering firms in your areas that have been around since the steam days? Don't imagine they'd have anything against a bit of free publicity.
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#110 OFFLINE   martc

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Posted 18 November 2018 - 07:30 AM

I've not seen the Fry's one - that is worth some more research.

 

Found this picture - a biscuit tin from the 1920's. Should be easy to keep clean; dark blue seems to be predominant in Fry's corporate colours.

 

04c6ec0762b19265d306969be35d191f.jpg

 

I found the photo on Google Images, but the link to Pinterest doesn't seem to work.


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#111 OFFLINE   Isaac Hunt

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Posted 18 November 2018 - 09:47 AM

Hell this is a good thread. Missed it as I didn't know what a Sentinel was.

Top Notch engineering, can't find a part, don't worry, we'll just make one OMG

I'd paint it in colours of your choice with your company name down the side, just as how it would have been if you had been in operation back in the day.
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#112 OFFLINE   Squire_Dawson

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Posted 18 November 2018 - 07:31 PM

Whilst I was at HMS Sultan I volunteered on theirs, was great fun especially on outings. Most fun you can have at 15 MPH! Proper engineering, whilst there we made a lot of items from scratch, for instance nuts and bolts. It is a regular at the Southern steam rallies towing its living van.


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#113 OFFLINE   JimH

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Posted Yesterday, 08:48 AM

does it have to be an "authentic" livery?

 

why not make you're own up? maybe stick to darker colours as these will wear better in service in stead of a lighter colour, plus kawazaki green isn't going to look right, no matter what.

 

so maybe navy blue, brunswick green and maroon? especially maroon, with yellow or black or both for lining. cos it needs to be lined out.

 

and then use you companies name on the side, with the 'phone number.

 

i've seen a few steam rollers painted up like that, i'm assuming by owners who are also contractors and maybe use the engine as an advertising thing?

In short, not it doesn't have to be authentic. When most of these were turned out they were usually painted black or brown and had the owners name blocked across the front apron with some additional waffle on the cab sides. When we built the last one that was what we did. We can't have done too badly because it has the same livery on it today.

 

44481740584_ef3c72f9d7_z.jpg

 

However, "big", recognisable liveries look pretty good and are handy from a resale point of view when we off load it because we're bored of it. Now, if I had an artistic bone in my body I could sit down and design a 1920s livery for our company, complete with plenty of gold leaf and a hand painted portrait of a secretary looking person suggesting that Modus Patented Accounting Machines are a boon! The problem is that my artistic development petered out when I was about six so that isn't going to happen. All we're left with is copying something else. 

 

The alternative is just paint the whole thing black and put something like "Alloa Road Services" on the front. That seems like a bit of a wasted opportunity.

 

Incidentally, Express Dairy had a lot of Supers. Their livery is perhaps a little too busy.

 

46828e.JPG


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#114 ONLINE   Hooli

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Posted Yesterday, 12:05 PM

How the hell did I miss this thread before? it's fantastic!


Opinions expressed are those of this cunt, not any other cunt. They do not represent the views of those responsible for this forum.
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#115 ONLINE   tooSavvy

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Posted Yesterday, 12:11 PM

red-bull-mini-cooper-3.jpg

...... I think we're missing a trick here ;)

*chimney may be problematic
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Wallsend?.....it's not the End of the Walled ;<)

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#116 OFFLINE   LightBulbFun

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Posted Yesterday, 01:40 PM

I was thinking that ^, if all else fails

 

do a modern lorry livery for the laughs :) tho you still have the issue of getting permission and most modern liveries would get dirty quite quickly on a steam waggon I imagine...



#117 OFFLINE   DodgeRover

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Posted Yesterday, 07:08 PM

Post up a link to your company logo / livery and see what we can come up with?

#118 OFFLINE   Mally

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Posted Yesterday, 08:56 PM

I'd have thought there is someone who would pay Squillions to have their name on something of such beauty.

 

 

Ufortunately I do not have Squillions.



#119 OFFLINE   Noel Tidybeard

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Posted Yesterday, 09:00 PM

maybe commission mr vulgalour to design you something


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