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Doing a cam belt on a "non PD" golf TDi Mk4..


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#1 ONLINE   DaveDorson

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Posted 25 September 2018 - 03:54 PM

Has anyone done one of these?

 

Do I really need VAG Com if I lock all the pulleys in the same place as they were in before I took the old belt off?

 

Seems a bit bloody silly.

 

Surely if it's not lost timing, and everything is locked in place, it's still timed correctly with the new belt installed?

 

Also, is it REALLY a 5 hour job to do with the water pump too?

 

I remember doing a Mk2 golf cam belt in about 38 minutes before.

 

I know the Mk4 means taking off the engine mount (and replacing the bolts as they're stretch bolts.. who the shit uses a stretch bolt for a fucking engine mount anyway?) but surely it's not five and a half fucking hours.



#2 OFFLINE   skattrd

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Posted 25 September 2018 - 04:15 PM

I've not done one myself, but I've had a couple done at the local garage.

Half a day seems about right with various faffing around and scraped knuckles etc. I think we did the last one on a Saturday morning and he shuts at 12, so maybe 3hrs.

We definitely didn't use vag.com or anything like that.

As for stretch bolts, erm, we might have replaced the original ones. I don't remember anything about those.


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#3 OFFLINE   Asimo

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Posted 25 September 2018 - 04:42 PM

Don't bother. Run it until it breaks and then shred the sodding thing.

(Dissapointed and bitter one-time Golf 4 owner)
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#4 OFFLINE   twosmoke300

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Posted 25 September 2018 - 04:53 PM

Not too bad apart from getting the engine mount off on a car with ac

One of the funniest things ive read on here - RIP Dave

 

Quote

 

Brilliant... late in for lunch I fired up an off-brand pot noodle and while carrying it to the lounge successfully spilled it all over myself, burned the piss out of my hand, soaked my phone with the juice, soaked a load of expense receipts I was also carrying and it hit the hall floor and just fucking exploded....it was literally dripping from the ceiling in my newly decorated hallway. The obvious and considered reaction was to throw an immediate, massive paddy and boot the fucker down the hall while screaming, which has made the whole scenario about 18 times worse.


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#5 OFFLINE   willswitchengage

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Posted 25 September 2018 - 07:17 PM

What engine would it have if not the 1.9 SDI / TDI? I thought it was only Mk5s got the fancy new common rail 2.0 and 1.6...


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#6 OFFLINE   skattrd

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Posted 25 September 2018 - 07:20 PM

What engine would it have if not the 1.9 SDI / TDI? I thought it was only Mk5s got the fancy new common rail 2.0 and 1.6...

 

It would be the pre-pd 1.9 tdi VE engine, the veg friendly one.


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#7 OFFLINE   dieselassist

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Posted 25 September 2018 - 07:47 PM

the pre PD Tdi belts are simple enough to do; most of the 5 hours is taking down bits to get to the actual belt; eg on a mk4 golf or skoda Octavia the r/h engine mount has to come off as does intercooler pipes etc etc.

I used to sell the odd one or two mk4s n Skoda Octy Tdi's back when they were actually worth a few quid, n a after a spruce up, Id wang on a new fibre belt 'at minimum' -whatever was tippex'd round the engine; as they first thing a caller would ask was 'WHEN WAZ LAST TIMING BELT DONE???" - if it wasn't done they'd want to chip you 500+ off...
I used to lock pullys with large welding clamps, drill bits n an M shaped bit of 6mm steel plate ('fashioned' the tongues with a grinder), I made up to lock the 'gearbox end' of the cam...

Audi A4 n [email protected] are even simpler/quicker to do as its north south facing engine, n the timing belt is facing you at the front of the car; you unbolt 'the front clip' - rad/bumper/latch carrier etc etc to gain acess...

I might have a link to an OVERCOMPLICATED yankee how to page, stored on a favourites (possibly)... never needed VAGCOM or VCDS to do a belt/adjust afterwards...

Theres a spendy T/B kit you used to buy but I just used to do the fibre belt, n maybe a tensioner if it failed the 'limp wrist' test!!

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#8 OFFLINE   dieselassist

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Posted 25 September 2018 - 08:03 PM

heres the link;
https://www.myturbod...98-2003-part-1/

I seem to remember they want you to 'join the forum' to get p2 n p3, but this will get you started...

I never replaced 'engine mount stretch bolts' but did have one snap on me during 'reassembly' when I was a bit casual with the jack up n down approach of the engine (on the sump - bit of wood off cut to protect that) to 'aid acess' to the belt end...

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#9 OFFLINE   drivewaymyway

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Posted 25 September 2018 - 08:41 PM

I have a genuine belt kit and Graf pump if you want it for some petrol tokens.. ??

 


Berlingo 1.9D 2005..  Blue. Van

Berlingo 1.9D 2005..  Blueish. Van.

Berlingo 1.9D 2004 Multi...  Silver.

VW Golf GTTDI 1997.. Silver..

MGF 1.8i.. Silver...  Shite...

2003 Yamaha R1.

Scott Mountain bike.

Static bike.

Grey wheelie bin.

Green wheelie bin.

Wheel barrow.. very rusted..

 


#10 ONLINE   DaveDorson

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Posted 26 September 2018 - 08:40 AM

I've not done one myself, but I've had a couple done at the local garage.

Half a day seems about right with various faffing around and scraped knuckles etc. I think we did the last one on a Saturday morning and he shuts at 12, so maybe 3hrs.

We definitely didn't use vag.com or anything like that.

As for stretch bolts, erm, we might have replaced the original ones. I don't remember anything about those.

 

Someone else did that with this one.

 

If you don't replace the engine mount bolts they snap, and they take a tab off the cast iron engine where it mounts, which causes all manner of issues.

 

Luckily, there's now a handy repair plate to resolve this, but previously, people would scrap the engines for this, as having it removed and the cast iron repaired and re-engineered is a massive expense.

 

Don't bother. Run it until it breaks and then shred the sodding thing.

(Dissapointed and bitter one-time Golf 4 owner)

 

It's already broken, and I'm saving it from being shredded.  I've got a petrol Mk4 2.0 and a new beetle, so I'm more than aware of what they're like, and actually quite like the damn things.

 

Sorry.

 

What engine would it have if not the 1.9 SDI / TDI? I thought it was only Mk5s got the fancy new common rail 2.0 and 1.6...

 

It's the 1.9 TDI, VE pump with electric timing or some other such nonsense.   They also fitted the PD engines to the Mk4.

 

It would be the pre-pd 1.9 tdi VE engine, the veg friendly one.

 

Yep, apparently so.

 

I have a genuine belt kit and Graf pump if you want it for some petrol tokens.. ??

 

How much would you like?  I've got one on order but it might be of dubious quality as it was veh veh cheap.


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#11 OFFLINE   skattrd

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Posted 26 September 2018 - 08:58 AM

Despite not replacing the engine mount bolts I did another 80k or so in my boring and another belt change, using the same bolts.

 

Next time they might get replaced ;)


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#12 ONLINE   DaveDorson

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Posted 26 September 2018 - 09:31 AM

Despite not replacing the engine mount bolts I did another 80k or so in my boring and another belt change, using the same bolts.

 

Next time they might get replaced ;)

 

 

It's a bit luck of the draw.

 

Thing is if they do let go, they drop the engine, cambelt side, against the mount and strut tower and can damage the block mounting points irreparably.

Which is why using one time use bolts here is a bloody stupid thing to do.

 

It's bloody stupid, and it frustrates me as Volkswagen used to be far more clever with their cars.



#13 OFFLINE   twosmoke300

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Posted 26 September 2018 - 12:02 PM

Prob done 10+ plus belts on these and never changed the bolts . Just dont go gorilla on them .

Im guessing the people that have done this are the same heavy handed fucks that cant tell 45 degrees from 90 on the 2.0 PD and pull the tensioner stud out of the head


One of the funniest things ive read on here - RIP Dave

 

Quote

 

Brilliant... late in for lunch I fired up an off-brand pot noodle and while carrying it to the lounge successfully spilled it all over myself, burned the piss out of my hand, soaked my phone with the juice, soaked a load of expense receipts I was also carrying and it hit the hall floor and just fucking exploded....it was literally dripping from the ceiling in my newly decorated hallway. The obvious and considered reaction was to throw an immediate, massive paddy and boot the fucker down the hall while screaming, which has made the whole scenario about 18 times worse.


#14 ONLINE   DaveDorson

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Posted 26 September 2018 - 12:33 PM

Prob done 10+ plus belts on these and never changed the bolts . Just dont go gorilla on them .

Im guessing the people that have done this are the same heavy handed fucks that cant tell 45 degrees from 90 on the 2.0 PD and pull the tensioner stud out of the head

 

 

They're a torque to yield bolt.

 

Once they've been torqued to yield, they can't be torqued to yield again as they've stretched.

 

Apparently the reason they're TTY bolts is because the used alloy for the mounts and cast iron to mount it too, so as a result the alloy expands and if you've not got TTY stuff in there, it'll rattle loose due to different metal expansion.

 

Which leads me to question exactly why they chose to mount the engine in that manner, requiring the use of TTY bolts in the first place. 

 

As I said, the car I'm doing the job on, has already had these bolts fail, where they were re-used after a timing belt change was done.

 

It's damaged the block, meaning I need to fit a repair plate, and it's damaged the cam belt where the mount also scuffed into the covers causing pre-mature wear and damage.

 

Doing some reading, and not only is this very common, it's spawned a product to repair the damaged blocks as a result.

 

The Robert Bentley manual also states that they should be replaced.


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#15 OFFLINE   shedenvy

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Posted 26 September 2018 - 01:12 PM

Can't comment on Non-PD timing belt but my 115PD was about a 6hr job.  i had to replace as the water pump bearing nearly shat itself. 

20160426_055908.jpg

I re-used my stretch bolts.  Yeah they snapped a year later.  Renew if the car is precious to you!

IMG_20170419_162513_1.jpg



#16 ONLINE   DaveDorson

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Posted 26 September 2018 - 01:17 PM

Can't comment on Non-PD timing belt but my 115PD was about a 6hr job.  i had to replace as the water pump bearing nearly shat itself. 

attachicon.gif20160426_055908.jpg

I re-used my stretch bolts.  Yeah they snapped a year later.  Renew if the car is precious to you!

attachicon.gifIMG_20170419_162513_1.jpg

 

it's more a case of, I'd rather it was done properly than whether it's precious to me.

 

I'm still not sure what I'll do with it once it's done.  I'll probably give the big green dogging machine (petrol 2.0 320k miles Mk4 estate) to Papa Dorson so he can take his Jag off the road for a bit and get the gearbox oil done, and use it for tip runs and trailer tent duties, as I think the 307 is a little better on the old Dino juice, and it's more comfortable.

 

But.. well, I dunno.



#17 OFFLINE   shedenvy

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Posted 26 September 2018 - 01:30 PM

At the risk of making myself unpopular, Mk4s are a useful tool. I've owned 2 115PDs and got them to 313K  and 220K miles.  They had several issues but only what other makes & models of the same era had.  They're not dynamic but will blast along motorways at 85 and return 45mpg.  I hated how wallowy mine was so lowered on coilovers - hence the sump /road come-together that may* have caused the shear bolts to snap.

So there, wouldn't have another, but if i had one i'd run it till it grenades.






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