ULEZ

[angle]

The problem is that it’s penalising the people who need a car but are restricted financially to an older car. Sidiq Khans answer would be to buy a £30,000 hybrid electric car so you are compliant but that’s not feasible for the vast majority of people. Stuffing the working man over, but then what’s new there.

Or, y'know, a £600 13 year old Laguna like mine.

[willswitchengage]

The problem is that it’s penalising the people who need a car but are restricted financially to an older car. Sidiq Khans answer would be to buy a £30,000 hybrid electric car so you are compliant but that’s not feasible for the vast majority of people. Stuffing the working man over, but then what’s new there.

 

It isn't! When the wider ULEZ comes into force a compliant Euro 4 petrol engined vehicle will be up to 15 years old (the standard came along around 2005 I think). As mentioned in previous posts in this topic these can easily be picked up for sub £500, or whatever budget one has. There's still two year's notice to change vehicle.

 

Remember that the poorest in society fundamentally can't afford a car, and will walk, cycle or use public transport to reach their destination. If a by product of this policy is a reduction in congestion then they will be among the beneficiaries.

[wuvvum]

Even early Priuseses can be picked up for under a grand now.

[purplebargeken]

Should be interesting as round my neck of the woods as I see private white vans (other colours are available), lorries (not all of them) and a fair few private diesel cars belching out black stuff at a moderate to severe amount, although these tend to be larger BMW, Audi and so on. Just wonder about a possible correlation between shit servicing of these cars as they tend to be owned by a particular range of people (without wanting to ignite any racially orientated scolding action). It's just based on my factual day to day observations in this bit of north London, although the kebabs are lovely. Big flash 'prestige badged cars but fuck all servicing and dodgy* MOT's anyone?

[Adrian_pt]

Fair (and interesting stats on private cars - much more than I envisaged!). Appreciate they're doing more to get buses clean. Next step will be to get them moving! And on taxis, again, the current standards are excellent. Big problem is with old black cabs, which can be up to 15 years old and are proper spewers. Most Ubers are much newer, and much cleaner (though not loved by the Mayor...)

 

 

 

 

Buses - all have to be Euro VI across all of London by October next year. All new buses being brought into service have been hybrid, electric or hydrogen for a few years now.
Taxis - all Hackney cabs that are newly registered have to be hybrid. Minicabs have to follow ULEZ rules, but from talking to people involved in the ULEZ they looked at bringing this in earlier but decided against it as theres no hybrid 7-seaters.

Private cars - across charging hours, there's about 13000 vehicles an hour driving into or out of the congestion charge zone. About 5000 of those are private cars, about 6000 are taxis or minicabs. Most of what's left is LGVs or HGVs.

[mrbenn]

Should be interesting as round my neck of the woods as I see private white vans (other colours are available), lorries (not all of them) and a fair few private diesel cars belching out black stuff at a moderate to severe amount, although these tend to be larger BMW, Audi and so on. Just wonder about a possible correlation between shit servicing of these cars as they tend to be owned by a particular range of people (without wanting to ignite any racially orientated scolding action). It's just based on my factual day to day observations in this bit of north London, although the kebabs are lovely. Big flash 'prestige badged cars but fuck all servicing and dodgy* MOT's anyone?

 

Interesting hypothesis, could well be the case.

 

As a Northener, I imagine the roads around the London area to be mostly of lower speed limit and largely gridlocked (I'm generalising hugely, I admit). Diesel engined cars/vans etc being driven in these circumstances will likely get choked up pretty quickly and display symptoms such as pumping out clag wherever they go.

 

One of my neighbours has a diesel that is driven locally and never in anger. The shit that comes out the back has to be seen to be believed, even the smell is horrible. Another neighbour has a diesel that is, shall we say, exercised regularly. Never seen so much as a puff of anything come out of that, even on a cold start.

 

TLDR diesels seem to need a good run and don't tend to do so well when used exclusively in urban conditions. IMHO, YMMV etc etc

[Tadhg Tiogar]

Should be interesting as round my neck of the woods as I see private white vans (other colours are available), lorries (not all of them) and a fair few private diesel cars belching out black stuff at a moderate to severe amount, although these tend to be larger BMW, Audi and so on. Just wonder about a possible correlation between shit servicing of these cars as they tend to be owned by a particular range of people (without wanting to ignite any racially orientated scolding action). It's just based on my factual day to day observations in this bit of north London, although the kebabs are lovely. Big flash 'prestige badged cars but fuck all servicing and dodgy* MOT's anyone?

 

Come over to Colindale and Burnt Oak, where you can find them re-registered on the plates of certain Eastern European countries......

[purplebargeken]

How many are right hand drive lol? I didn't want to go quite that far but there are a fair few round this way too. 

 

On the other end of the spectrum you have the well maintained older cars whose emissions are well below the set limits yet according to the ULEZ checker plan to be fucked over in '21. Yes, K11 Micra and Rover 45.

[Marm Toastsmith]

The problem is that it’s penalising the people who need a car but are restricted financially to an older car. Sidiq Khans answer would be to buy a £30,000 hybrid electric car so you are compliant but that’s not feasible for the vast majority of people. Stuffing the working man over, but then what’s new there.

 

This has been said before, but it's a total non issue for skint car-owning Londoners. There are plenty of old cheap petrol cars that are compliant. Londoners typically aren't high milers anyway so the benefit of owning an oil burner is moot really. Yes some people will have to change their car, but it needn't cost them a fortune (or even anything).

 

Besides, London is well served by public transport, people rarely rely on cars for regular transport, mine clock up most of their miles on family holidays.

 

It's possibly more of an issue for people that commute into London via car regularly and clock up reasonable mileages. But from where I stand, lots of these people need discouraging from using their cars anyway.

 

Extending to within the zone bounded by N and S Circulars - ie plenty of suburbs where people live and earn a living, 1) has a much smaller effect on air quality (as this tends to be where there's much less congestion than ultra-central London) and 2) affects many more people many of whom are not Central London plutocrats. 

 

Can't agree with any of this! Plenty of wealthy people in the extension zones, the truth is that high rents and house prices, and decimation of council housing have pushed out most of the normal poor Londoners anyway! A tiny house in the arse end of Tottenham is over half a million pounds, and that's probably as cheap as you'll find within the north circular... What's a grand for a car?

 

In any case there are very few people here that really need or rely on a car. With residents parking, fines everywhere, the genuinely poor have not been able to afford to run a car for years. Public transport is pretty good and congestion (and pollution) is horrendous. 

[lesapandre]

As has been said lots of cheap cars are compliant - and buy a pre-81 in 2021 and you are totally exempt. Plenty of time to find something if you want to drive. 

[Sheefag]

The 2021 deadline is an extension for London residents but not London businesses. For businesses and everyone else, the ULEZ will be chargeable from 8th April this year.

[lesapandre]

This for example is exempt...

[lesapandre]

The 2021 deadline is an extension for London residents but not London businesses. For businesses and everyone else, the ULEZ will be chargeable from 8th April this year.

ULEZ only in the congestion charge zone which is within the inner ring road before 2021 then moves to North and South Circular.

[wuvvum]

Could be a good source of cheap vans for us non-Londonians though.  When the original LEZ came in I scored a smiley Transit 190TD from north London for about 300 quid.

[Fabergé Greggs]

Could be a good source of cheap vans for us non-Londonians though. When the original LEZ came in I scored a smiley Transit 190TD from north London for about 300 quid.

Indeed, the price old 125 scooters has plummeted already, and can surely only continue to do so..

[Marm Toastsmith]

Indeed, the price old 125 scooters has plummeted already, and can surely only continue to do so..

 

Ah! Interesting. Glad I sold my T5 when I did... even if I did practically give it away.

 

I fancy a CG125 at the moment...

[willswitchengage]

Indeed, the price old 125 scooters has plummeted already, and can surely only continue to do so..

 

An irritance of this is that it prohibits basically all carburettor-type motorcycles, i.e. the cool ones. Wouldn't have thought it would make much of a difference though as commuter bikes and scooters tend to have terrifically short lifespans. A whole year without one being stolen is good going around here.

[dieselnutjob]

I hope that this hasn't been asked/answered in the previous five pages.

 

Anyway:  How come ND55FHB (random Landrover Hippo I saw for sale) is ULEZ compliant?  The same seems to be true of various late model MG Rovers with K series engines.

 

If I put ND55FHB in here https://www.hpi.co.uk/content/diesel-news-the-future-of-diesel/hpi-euro-emission-standards-checker/ it says Euro 3, so not compliant.

If I put ND55FHB in here https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emission-zone/vrm-checker-ulez it says "you are not subject to the ULEZ. You do not need to take any action"

 

how come?

 

what about V6 automatic Rover 75s ?  If I can find a ULEZ compliant one I might actually be tempted.

 

The newest Petrol auto 75 on Autotrader right now is AX54WBK.  Not compliant.

 

However 75 1.8 YS54CFD is compliant.  I'm guessing that the 1.8 turbos are all manuals?

[purplebargeken]

ULEZ compliance regs are the same as insurance quotes, seemingly random, bizarre and not based in the real world. 

[TheClutchBasketPodcast]

We did an episode of the podcast about cars that you could buy for this purpose. We gave ourselves £10k to play with which is more than most people are talking about spending, however, I found a 1978 V8 land rover 12 seater for £10k.

 

Ulez Exempt

Congestion Exempt

Tax Exempt

Mot Exempt

 

AND

 

You can drive it in the majority of the bus lanes because it's more than 8 seats...

 

 

You do need to do your d1 licience, but with all the cash you are saving, adding categories to the license is a good way to spend it.

 

What better way to avoid the emissions regs with a carbureted v8 with no catalytic converter? 

[Sir Snipes]

I don't think it's cyclists per se, I think it's just London. Everyone's in this kind of permanent manic state, so stressed about their job and their insane rent and hyped up on caramel lattes, too self-consumed to properly consider the world around them.

 

I've lived 26 of my 32 years in that city, I still love plenty of things about it and I like my occasional visits, but I'd be very surprised if I ever end up living there again.

This describes the London experience for me, too. I'm about an hour from London in Kent and I really hate working there. The south east suburbs (Lewisham, Dulwich, Hither Green, Greenwich etc) are just the worst.

[dieselnutjob]

A 75 would be great for me because I am still developing diagnostics software for them.

However I need an auto because knee.

According to Wikipedia there was a 1.8 auto. I need to find one and see if it is ulez.

[angle]

I hope that this hasn't been asked/answered in the previous five pages.

 

Anyway: How come ND55FHB (random Landrover Hippo I saw for sale) is ULEZ compliant? The same seems to be true of various late model MG Rovers with K series engines.

 

If I put ND55FHB in here https://www.hpi.co.uk/content/diesel-news-the-future-of-diesel/hpi-euro-emission-standards-checker/ it says Euro 3, so not compliant.

If I put ND55FHB in here https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emission-zone/vrm-checker-ulez it says "you are not subject to the ULEZ. You do not need to take any action"

 

how come?

 

what about V6 automatic Rover 75s ? If I can find a ULEZ compliant one I might actually be tempted.

 

The newest Petrol auto 75 on Autotrader right now is AX54WBK. Not compliant.

 

However 75 1.8 YS54CFD is compliant. I'm guessing that the 1.8 turbos are all manuals?

Because (and this is daft for a system enforced by ANPR) the DVLA doesn't have a number plate lookup for emissions. Anything which claims to be an emissions checker just looks up registration date and fuel type and spits out an emissions standard based on that. But, you can have a car registered before the official date a standard came in which is still compliant - so my 55 plate Laguna emits the same as a four month newer 06 plate one, but the emissions checker will say mine is Euro 3 and the slightly newer one is Euro 4.

 

To get around that, TfL let you send them a copy of your V5 (which shows the emissions) and they'll manually register it as exempt - last time I was in their offices there was a big stack of emails from Merc E240 owners sitting by one of the printers...

[Jerzy Woking]

My van is not ULEZ compliant, and neither is one of my two bikes I use for commuting the carbed one is banned).

 

And what is the financial cost of fitting the rear facing cameras? £800 million

You read that right-£800 million. And are they being fitted just to check bikes, as the forward facing cameras stay?

 

My office is just 400 yards in to the CC and ULEZ area, but seeing as I'm quitting my job 5 weeks before the charge starts, well, it will not effect me too often.

 

However, I feel a hypocrite on the pollution issue. My office has parking in the basement (where I park my motorbike), which is adjacent to Lower Thames Street, and has air vents on that side of the car park.

The photo is of my bike with a dark grey cover on it. 12 weeks ago, that cover was white-as you can see from the new one placed on top. Breathing in the dust in there cannot be healthy

 

[dieselnutjob]

 Anything which claims to be an emissions checker just looks up registration date and fuel type and spits out an emissions standard based on that. 

 

Not true.

 

Go to https://www.hpi.co.uk/content/diesel-news-the-future-of-diesel/hpi-euro-emission-standards-checker/

put in RX06OBL

[dieselnutjob]

To get around that, TfL let you send them a copy of your V5 (which shows the emissions) and they'll manually register it as exempt - last time I was in their offices there was a big stack of emails from Merc E240 owners sitting by one of the printers...

So, the Euro 4 standard for petrol according to wikipedia is

CO 1.0

THC 0.10

NOx 0.08

 

So if your V5 shows numbers lower than these then you're compliant? All of them or just NOx?

 

This means that there is scope for finding cheap cars which people think are not compliant but actually are.

[angle]

Not true.

 

Go to https://www.hpi.co.uk/content/diesel-news-the-future-of-diesel/hpi-euro-emission-standards-checker/

put in RX06OBL

That's interesting, maybe they have managed to work something out then. I always used to put my numberplate in and it came up with 'not compliant, if you think that's wrong email a copy of your V5 on this link' but now it's saying compliant straight away. Sorry if I got your hopes up.

[dieselnutjob]

Sorry if I got your hopes up.

The opposite. You have helped me get nearer (I think) to the truth, which seems to be that TFL are surprisingly going by actual emissions as shown on the V5 rather than simply whether it Euro 4 or not.

 

This is very different to how they treated commercials when LEZ came in.

 

It sounds almost as if they are scraping the DVLA database for cars that meet some criteria for NOx or something similar which would explain why so many late MG Rovers and 2004/2005 Fords are coming up as compliant.

 

I would just like to know their exact criteria though.

[dieselnutjob]

It says here

https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emission-zone/ways-to-meet-the-standard#on-this-page-0

 

The ULEZ standards are:

 

Euro 3 for motorcycles, mopeds, motorised tricycles and quadricycles (L category)

Euro 4 (NOx) for petrol cars, vans, minibuses and other specialist vehicles

Euro 6 (NOx and PM) for diesel cars, vans and minibuses and other specialist vehicles

Euro VI (NOx and PM) for lorries, buses and coaches and other specialist heavy vehicles (NOx and PM)

 

So if I take this at face value you just need a V5 that says NOx 0.08 or lower on a petrol car and you can get a ULEZ exemption.

[angle]

Yeah, I think that's right:

 

https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/environment/air-quality-consultation-phase-3a/

 

So originally it was just on NOx for all vehicles then they changed it to include particulate emissions, but only for diesels.