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puddlethumper

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Coolant preheater  - I'd never thought of that, my boring used to take ages to get to temp in winter, like 15+ miles before I had decent heat.

 

I'd expect they'd help a little with fuel economy, as the engine is up to temp quicker.

That said the money spent on electricity is probably more than you'd save on a few miles dunning rich getting up to temp. The main advantage, as you say is having a warm cabin quicker.

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Do they plug

Into the mains or run off the battery? My lupo warms up quick and fires right up on 100% veg but the Astra I’ve just got for the Mrs takes an age to get to temp and I’m just starting out trying it on a mixture

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Do they plug

Into the mains or run off the battery? My lupo warms up quick and fires right up on 100% veg but the Astra I’ve just got for the Mrs takes an age to get to temp and I’m just starting out trying it on a mixture

 

Mains. So not the answer if you use it to make a car which otherwise wouldn't start do so in parky weather, unless you're never further than the length of your extension reel from a socket or don't leave the car for more than four or five hours.

A lot of modern turbo-diesels take a looong time to reach full operating temperature in cold weather unless you're straight onto a motorway or accelerating up a long hill for a good while.

 

Those which do use 12 or 24v power are pissing in the wind unless it's a matter of melting gelling fuel. A 3kW heater used to bring the 2.5 Audi five pot up to 70C coolant and head temperature in about 15 minutes at 5C.

 

 

Coolant preheater - I'd never thought of that, my boring used to take ages to get to temp in winter, like 15+ miles before I had decent heat.

 

I'd expect they'd help a little with fuel economy, as the engine is up to temp quicker.

That said the money spent on electricity is probably more than you'd save on a few miles dunning rich getting up to temp. The main advantage, as you say is having a warm cabin quicker.

I think if used carefully the electricity used is less than the cost of petrol or diesel saved for many cars when temps dip lower, perhaps under 6-7C.

 

But yes, its the luxury of getting into a car which blows hot air and has defrosted windows, if you're on veg, not having the cold-running characteristics of some engines is an extra bonus, especially when on slippery surfaces.

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I'm thinking about getting another veg burner, I'm just trying to work out a suitable one, cheap and auto pref.

 

My initial thoughts were PSA 2.1TD (not Lucas) - but I'm not a massive fan of the XUD. I much prefer the VAG pre-pd, VE, which has better power and economy,  but VAG autoboxes are shit. 

This brings me to Volvo 850/V70/S80 tdi with the VAG 5-pot, I'd love my old S80 back. 

 

Are there any other veg suggestions to consider?

Merc OM605/6 was a thought, but as mentioned previously, saddle tanks, so they're not ideal.

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The 2.1 XUD is a peachy engine, the Lucas Epic is reputedly the least-veggable ever but strangely mine made it through the winter of 2010 on 70% wvo.

 

110hp VAG is really good, but usually DMFs and VNTs - there's nothing worse than not using all of the power fairly frequently in high veg% with DI, so starting off with a simple old 90 with SMF and old-fashioned turbo can make sense. You can always add injectors from a 110 if needed.

 

Plenty are using 60%+ veg with PDs and even CR, it needs a bit more research but prices are so low and with others documenting their trials online there's no longer the scariness involved.

 

V70s are great and make a lot of sense but they don't like cold starts or dawdling about on too high a %. They need a bigger or extra fuel supply line from the tank in colder weather, too.

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My high % veg experience with the 2.5 TDI isn't great.

I wouldn't worry about DMFs on VE TDIs, they seem to last for a long time. If you're not bothered about performance SDIs are simpler and great on veg too.

The XUD11 is smoother and stronger than the XUD9 but it's hard to find one with a Bosch pump.

If you're looking at XMs all 2.5TDs are fitted with Bosch pumps.

 

Edit: automatic only?

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My high % veg experience with the 2.5 TDI isn't great.

 

If you're looking at XMs all 2.5TDs are fitted with Bosch pumps.

Edit: automatic only?

The V70 is such a tough old car it's worth persevering, imo. The cost of a fphe and 240v coolant pre heater will be more than recovered in the first tank of wvo.

 

Proper bluesky thinking, a 2.5 XM. Wcpgw?!

 

 

Am I correct in thinking that the VAG AMF engine is PD and therefore can’t be run on SVO in any proportion?

There's plenty of documented success running PDs on veg, see the vegoildiesel forum. Twin-tanking is recommended but some just chuck it in and go (and continue to do).

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Am I correct in thinking that the VAG AMF engine is PD and therefore can’t be run on SVO in any proportion?

PD engines can tolerate thicker fuels with care. In the summer I threw a 25l drum of a road legal* fuel with a similar viscosity to veg oil in my PD Fabia, it ran fine and I didn't notice any difference in its performance.
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I'd prefer automatic, as I'm old and lazy now.

If I was haapy with manual then a ve vag would be the obvious choice, plus I've got lots of go fast stuff to nick from the boring. I did a solid flywheel conversion on that as well (1h flywheel and vr6 clutch) so I'm not fussed about dmf.
Unfortunately though vag don't seem to use a decent automatic box so that rules those out.

The galaxy with the ve tdi, any idea if they used a Ford gearbox or VW?

I don't do na turbo. I find them difficult to live with, and stressful when joining fast moving traffic.

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In summer I used to run my VE engined VW Bora on 100% SVO or WVO (cabbage juice) and winter 50/50 diesel and veg.

I did try thinning down the veg in winter with petrol, but the car wasn't keen on it, so I tried 50/50 and never had any issues.

 

Service as normal and change the fuel filter at every service....

Pity the PD TDis aren't always so tolerant, otherwise I'd be keen to give it a go in the ATD-engined Borat.

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Anybody here run a ahu 1.9 tdi (I have 96 golf) on veg? Read a few scare stories about rising oil levels etc so I haven’t tried yet. But if people are running pds on it then I am probably being a wimp!

I've run its successor the ALH on veg, it's the best engine I've come across for vegability. I think the updated VE TDIs are better than the previous versions like your AHU and the AFN in my Passat but they're still fine on veg, just don't let the engine idle excessively on veg and keep an eye on the dipstick.
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These old cars are worth so little now but well worth looking after a good'un even if just for the engine and its intrinsic toughness. If a throwaway car then just add clean dry oil and drive on, adding diesel and petrol as temperatures plummet.

 

Making sure the compression is good and injector spray pattern more fan-like than a water pistol would be reassuring for sustained veg-life, adding a fphe (they're £10-15 on ebay) improves driveability in winter.

 

Tip for winter - if a car feels sluggish on veg but runs perfectly otherwise check the sender unit in the tank isn't clogged or restricted. Plenty of VAG have one-way valves in the pickup pipe which can be a restriction on dino in cold weather. Poke out with a pokey thing.

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LP is right about the Audi 2.5 TDi 5 cylinder which Volvo used in the 850 and V70 (right through to 2001) disliking too much veg with no help. They're a glorious engine but designed to pull a car along at 110mph+ all day, high%s of vegfuel at 25-60mph on slow English roads just isn't good for them.

 

If you work a car hard or regularly make long faster trips, they're perfect. I've just returned from such a trip in the V70 this evening and it's amazingly flexible, fast and frugal. Tonight it was running 60-40 veg/diesel, a great mix. All the extra low down torque veg often gives you but with all the fast combustion of diesel at high revs. The longer stroke loves longer-burning veg, an AEL is 81x95.5mm.

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I put 460,000 miles on a 1997 ahu passat.   About 100,000 miles on biodiesel and 160,000 on filtered wvo.    I put an elsbett veg oil kit on the car.....the kit was the best on the market at the time for tdi.   It worked well on the ahu.   It needed the fuel pump repaired at 300,000 due to leaking seals, but the engine never faltered.   One other breakdown was when it blocked the catalytic converter.   The cat was removed.    It was Winter.

The advantage of the kit is that it avoids hard starting.   My opinion is that it is hard starting that will kill an engine, through dilution of the motor oil.   Something to be avoided.

I hope this helps

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Has anybody else seen polymerisation of the engine lubricating oil when running on veg? I've only seen it once with a Transit Di that had been run on anything vaguely flammable and not serviced, oil light came on and stayed on, sump had to come off to get the clag out but being a Di it lived on!

 

I've heard and read about no end of horror stories about dervs running on veg but I've never actually witnessed anything untowards with engine oil. That includes me doing thousands of miles on various mixes and multiple mates doing the same. This is all XUD based experience though, even one that was run for an extended period on used, contaminated hydraulic oil that looked like custard.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Lucas -> Bosch pump conversion.

 

Umm is Lucas (roto I think) 

205 TD Lucas (EPIC?)

 

How difficulut would these be to convert to a nice Bosch pump solution for veg compatibility and maybe minor tweakage.

Links to guides or whatnot would be useful, thx.

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There are guides online about how to tweak the Lucas pump, I remember Supernaut mentioned them in relation to the VM-engined Granadas.

 

For the mileage you're likely to do in the UMM, the Lucas pump should probably be fine on 50/50 veg. It's amazing how much 50/50 veg/diesel mix you can buy for the price of a Bosch pump...

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A VM engined Granada wouldn't be troubled with any Lucas pumps.

 

 

Does that mean I can find Indenor friendly Bosch pump and bits from an old Granda?

 

I'm planning on keeping the Umm long term and want to fit nice things, maybe tweak and I'd prefer a Bosch, that's more likely to get done than the 205 in my ownership.

Umm is also currently partially dismantled ;)

 

 

 

I assume similar for 205 and 306, he's doing Bosch -> Lucas but same parts, just other way round.

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The VM engine is totally different but gear driven like the Indenor. It's possible you could improvise and use a Bosch pump from a VM.

It might be possible to fit any 4 cyl indirect injection Bosch mechanical pump and adapt the Indenor sprocket, people fit mechanical Land Rover TDI pumps to VW TDI engines to do away with the ECU and for greater tuning capacity for example.

Is it definitely a rotodiesel in the UMM?

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