Veg

[lesapandre]

PS I might try it.

[beko1987]

Ran it loads in the XUD ZX and Xantia! Both neat, watered down with petrol in the winter and WVO picked fresh in bulk from Farmer Joe's vinyard before he went to thailand! 

[skattrd]

In summer I used to run my VE engined VW Bora on 100% SVO or WVO (cabbage juice) and winter 50/50 diesel and veg.

I did try thinning down the veg in winter with petrol, but the car wasn't keen on it, so I tried 50/50 and never had any issues.

 

Service as normal and change the fuel filter at every service.

 

I might have occasionally run the S80 (5-pot VAG lump) on veg, but the car was shiny and I didn't want to mess up the paintwork with veg splashes … it gets everywhere.

[Bradders59]

I run a Merc 190D 2.5 manual on wvo. I have covered over 30k miles in the car and the previous owner covered around 25k miles in it, also on wvo.

The only time it isnt on 100% wvo is when the temp. start dropping to near zero, when I mix in approx 5% petrol to thin it down.

It has just clocked up 240,000 miles and runs great.

If anyone wants to run a car on vegoil, I don't think you can buy a more suitable car than an old 190D.

The injection pump is about the size of a Honda 50 engine and could pump grease to the injectors if the car would run on grease. 

I use it for approx. two thirds of my motoring which allows me the luxury of using my 3.2 Omega (24mpg) for the other third.

Havent done the sums recently, but when I last did, it was saving me around £100 per month net.

[forddeliveryboy]

Anyone used it in an Audi/ Volvo 5 cylinder TDi? Is it even possible?

...the max I can find anyone has successfully run that engine on is 30% veg.

 

They're often reluctant to start in cold conditions at 70%+ veg, I've never found out exactly why, though if the timing on these isn't smack on (set up physically then electronically) they're a pain to start on diesel, apparently.

 

Under hard acceleration fuel lines aren't big enough to cope on lots of veg, even rapeseed. I added an additional one and along with the usual fphe (advisable through winter) it transformed performance. Fitting a 240v preheater cost about £100, lovely on snowy and frosty mornings, it allowed my usual 90-95% wvo. The extra low-down torque made the car very enjoyable to drive.

 

The two most reliable cars are mechanical pump VAG TDis and XUDs, but there are plenty of PD and HDi engines running well on mixes.

[forddeliveryboy]

If anyone wants to run a car on vegoil, I don't think you can buy a more suitable car than an old 190D.

The injection pump is about the size of a Honda 50 engine and could pump grease to the injectors if the car would run on grease.

I use it for approx. two thirds of my motoring which allows me the luxury of using my 3.2 Omega (24mpg) for the other third.

 

I've run both OM602s and 3s, yes the pumps are wonderful but there are potential issues to watch out for with old vegged Mercedes. They're often used quite lazily outside of Germany, which together with retarded timing (chain stretch, conservative factory settings) and the short stroke (veg burns more slowly than diesel) and cooled fuel (filter right at the front) means they're prone to ring gumming, something most don't notice until it's too late.

 

With the engine and fuel up to temperature, a few vigorous miles helps prevent disaster, note cold fuel and revving can create excess pressures which blow the pump delivery valves (can be replaced without removing pump though). The multivalve versions which followed are regarded by the vegoildiesel community as needing water injection from the moment you fill with veg, to prevent gumming.

 

When right though (did I mention failing fuel tank linings to compound problems), the cars are superb - I covered tens of thousands of miles in 124 estates. Spilt fuel has the benefit of preventing corrosion, too.

[Bucketeer]

For those who used to run Will's excellent explosive cabbage juice there may be some good news. I am currently sat at South Mimms services on the way to pick up our resident veg baron from the airport as he returns from many travels. I'll ask him if he's planning to restart the reactor.

[Bradders59]

I've run both OM602s and 3s, yes the pumps are wonderful but there are potential issues to watch out for with old vegged Mercedes. They're often used quite lazily outside of Germany, which together with retarded timing (chain stretch, conservative factory settings) and the short stroke (veg burns more slowly than diesel) and cooled fuel (filter right at the front) means they're prone to ring gumming, something most don't notice until it's too late.

 

With the engine and fuel up to temperature, a few vigorous miles helps prevent disaster, note cold fuel and revving can create excess pressures which blow the pump delivery valves (can be replaced without removing pump though). The multivalve versions which followed are regarded by the vegoildiesel community as needing water injection from the moment you fill with veg, to prevent gumming.

 

When right though (did I mention failing fuel tank linings to compound problems), the cars are superb - I covered tens of thousands of miles in 124 estates. Spilt fuel has the benefit of preventing corrosion, too.

 

Wouldn't disagree with any of that. Although the cooled fuel issue can be overcome by bypassing the fuel heater thermostat so the fuel runs through the engine block permanently rather than until its up to operating temperature. I did this to mine and it only takes 15 minutes for a very useful veg friendly mod.

[forddeliveryboy]

That helps, but in very cold weather there's still the problem of the fuel being super-cooled in the filter - the hotter the oil, the faster it cools. I cable-tied a bit of an old camping mat round the filter and fitted an air deflector which made subzero progress much better.

 

There was once an interesting railway station (for the airport) early morning run with mother-in-law at 35mph - my earliest days on veg when the weather changed suddenly from 15C to zero. It's how you learn fast!

 

Gorgeous engines these 'whispering diesels', they take off beyond 3500rpm if your right leg's long enough and the NA sixes are wonderful if you're crossing continents in one go, but the fives are probably the best-made, smoothest and tough oil burner ever. Driving as it used to be, best enjoyed on quieter and faster roads. It's a type of deep quality which has gone forever

[red5]

Ace. Chop chop will!

[Talbot]

I've run both OM602s and 3s, yes the pumps are wonderful but there are potential issues to watch out for with old vegged Mercedes. They're often used quite lazily outside of Germany, which together with retarded timing (chain stretch, conservative factory settings) and the short stroke (veg burns more slowly than diesel) and cooled fuel (filter right at the front) means they're prone to ring gumming, something most don't notice until it's too late.

 

With the engine and fuel up to temperature, a few vigorous miles helps prevent disaster, note cold fuel and revving can create excess pressures which blow the pump delivery valves (can be replaced without removing pump though). The multivalve versions which followed are regarded by the vegoildiesel community as needing water injection from the moment you fill with veg, to prevent gumming.

Interesting. It's a later OM606 multivalve that I run, with only the pre-filter bypassed. I've done about 20k miles in it on a blend without issue so far, although I have never been able to run 100% veg, mainly because the engine is currently starting on 3 working glow-plugs, and they are a *bastard* of a job to change. What are the symptoms of ring gumming? I'm not sure I would recognise them even if right under my nose. I do give it a fair bit of welly every now and then though!

 

the fives are probably the best-made, smoothest and tough oil burner ever.

The ultimate for that is the older OM617 as fitted to W123. They are now very highly prized, and will genuinely run on anything that burns.

[Scruffy Bodger]

The ultimate for that is the older OM617 as fitted to W123. They are now very highly prized, and will genuinely run on anything that burns.

 

Reminds me of a few years back. I was in a mates early Sprinter van and we ran out of fuel on a very steep bank, nearest garage a few miles away and in a phone blackspot. No  fuel on board but he did have several engine oil containers with various grades left in, maybe 3 litres all in? It was away after a minute of cranking, pulled away cleanly, still on the steep bank and loaded, marvellous old bus 

[forddeliveryboy]

Interesting. It's a later OM606 multivalve that I run, with only the pre-filter bypassed. I've done about 20k miles in it on a blend without issue so far, although I have never been able to run 100% veg, mainly because the engine is currently starting on 3 working glow-plugs, and they are a *bastard* of a job to change. What are the symptoms of ring gumming? I'm not sure I would recognise them even if right under my nose.

Ring gumming is less likely the higher the proportion of mineral fuels, one reason I'll never run 100% veg - another being that even 2 or 3% diesel improves economy a fair bit when pushing on.

 

An incremental loss of performance is the thing to watch for, some would notice within a few weeks or less, others not for a good bit longer, maybe at the point the car grows harder to start from cold. It's more obvious on smaller lower-powered engines which need full power routinely, but then of course it's less likely to occur since cylinder temperatures and pressures will be higher.

 

A drop of acetone (0.15% for oil burners) is one preventative measure by reducing the droplet size created by injectors - good for low load conditions, as are not idling from cold, not idling excessively at any time, making sure injector spray patterns are ok, the thermostat isn't stuck open and compression is good. Best ever is to tow a heavy trailer around once a month.

[DodgeRover]

Or rig water/ methanol injection with a misting jet activated by a micro switch at full throttle.

[forddeliveryboy]

Or rig water/ methanol injection with a misting jet activated by a micro switch at full throttle.

Yep, that's what I mentioned many vegoilers do with these engines, in the original post.

[DodgeRover]

Oops missed that.

[Tam]

So just to check you guys are saying at my own risk I could pour 20 litres of this into my Rover 25 L series tank at roughly a 50/50 mix and it will drive ok?

[skattrd]

Yes (personally I've never had an L series) but it should also make your car exhaust smell like popcorn, or so I've been told.

[Tam]

Got to be worth a shot at 80p a litre. I've tried reading a bit and L series seems robust enough. Parts are plentiful and cheap enough just now any way. Only issue seems to be seals.

[skattrd]

Do you know when the fuel filter was last changed? If not change it.... Although 50/50 it should be ok, 100% can gum things a bit.

[Talbot]

it will drive ok?

Several thjings will happen the first time you ever drive an engine on a blend of veg when It's only ever had pump fuel before:

 

It will get quieter and smoother.

it will smell of chips/popcorn/scampi/hot oil/some other smell depending on your nose.

Emissions will reduce.

Fuel economy *might* dip by a few percent. I've never seen it, and I would swear it's fractionally better on a blend.

It may take slightly more cranking to start when cold.

The oil will work as a fuel system cleaner, so you may end up with a very dirty fuel filter. This takes a few dozen litres to happen.

Any seal on the injection pump that is on it's last legs or very close to failure will immediately start pissing out.

 

And you'll have a nice smug grin on your face for not paying £fucktonnes in fuel duty.

[skattrd]

AH, yes, running on "cabbage juice" did make it smell of chips, it was ace.

[M'coli]

I run the ex-explosive-cabbage Puglet 106 with a Bosch-pumped TUD5 on a mix of veg and dino, usually up to about 70% SVO - those who helped to bump-start it at Shitefest in June when it was on 90% plus will understand why I'm reluctant to run it any thicker, especially with it getting colder - it's even more reluctant to start.

Oddly enough, when I could get WVO in the form of cabbage juice, it would fire up no probs on 75% WVO in sub-zero conditions, but wouldn't rev properly until the engine was warmed up a bit.

[Bucketeer]

I spoke with Explosive_Cabbage and it seems likely that there could be a quantity of surplus cabbage juice available. He reckoned he probably wouldn't be able to deliver though.

It's best to PM him to find out the score, I'm not sure he'll get on the forum.

[GrumpiusMaximus]

Is it worth giving this a go on my PD-engined Golf with a blend?  Super cautious because it's the only way I can get to work...!

[skattrd]

Is it worth giving this a go on my PD-engined Golf with a blend?  Super cautious because it's the only way I can get to work...!

 

If in doubt, it's not worth the risk.

I didn't veg the OM605 Merc I had as I was doubtful of the saddle tanks and "O" rings, although I did replace the o rings with vitron ones.

 

I'm not sure what the score is with PD engines, I deliberately went with the earlier VE, as I knew they were veg friendly.

[Talbot]

I didn't veg the OM605 Merc I had as I was doubtful of the saddle tanks and "O" rings, although I did replace the o rings with vitron ones.

The O-Rings are easy enough to replace (as you did!). The Saddle tank on a W201/W202 is a complete bastard for veg. You can get away with a mix, but I don't know what the maximum recommended is.

 

Best thing to do with one of these is to install a twin-tank system.

[forddeliveryboy]

I run the ex-explosive-cabbage Puglet 106 with a Bosch-pumped TUD5 on a mix of veg and dino, usually up to about 70% SVO - those who helped to bump-start it at Shitefest in June when it was on 90% plus will understand why I'm reluctant to run it any thicker, especially with it getting colder - it's even more reluctant to start.

Oddly enough, when I could get WVO in the form of cabbage juice, it would fire up no probs on 75% WVO in sub-zero conditions, but wouldn't rev properly until the engine was warmed up a bit.

I've always found unused oil doesn't combust as easily as used, could be the better filtration and-or having being up to 200C and back a few times. Not sure whether this is a viscosity thing (the finer the filtration, the less sticky the oil) or a chemical change. Could be both.

[Bradders59]

For anyone interested in further info on the subject, there is a great online forum.

http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/mybbforum/index.php

[forddeliveryboy]

I had a look on ebay for coolant preheaters, someone in Cz-land has started importing Chinese ones and driven the price right down to around £30. When I began begging it was Kenlowe hotstart or nothing, £200ish new and not always 100% reliable. When their price rose to nearer 300 people in the Baltic States started posting what they were presumably using for around 100.

 

They're a luxury you'd never want to be without with a diesel even not on veg if there are early morning commutes throughout winter, running on higher veg %s they're very nearly a must at £30 provided these things don't fail after 6 months. Setting off in snow or sub-zero with a defrosted screen, warm interior and engine nearly up to temp is as good as those smug Tesla sorts have it.