Veg

[puddlethumper]

How many of us are running on veg ?

If you are, what motor and what mix, if any, are you using ?

I'm running a 305 van, for those that don't know, on 70% oil.

It doesn't seem to like 100%. Lumpy first thing . No problem when warm.

A friend, mechanic, recommended putting some two stroke in.

Anyone got any other tips ?

[Tamworthbay]

Anyone used it in an Audi/ Volvo 5 cylinder TDi? Is it even possible?

[red5]

On occasion. Drop of mineral 2t in it. About 70% in the Frontera,old Di Isuzu. Loves a bit of it.

ZS hopefully the same when I get it.

[warninglight]

I'm told those old TDIs don't mind it Tamworth! I got as far as getting 40 litres of waste from my local, leaving it to settle for a month in cubies, and then never filtering it or using it.

 

Apparently the dished pistons help cope with it, and the good old Bosch pump on them loves it.

 

I love the idea of it, but I'm unlikely to ever go to the effort required.

[Lacquer Peel]

The 2.5 TDI is okay on veg but not as good as the 1.9 TDI.

[matty879]

i used to run my rover 200 on asdas finest,often neat,the only problem i had was primer bulbs going soft and sucking in.and countless empty 3l bottles everywhere

[Guest Hooli]

I used to run a TDi LR on about 80-90% SVO, it didn't like sub-zero starts & knocked for 30secs or so but apart from that it was fine.

[Lacquer Peel]

i used to run my rover 200 on asdas finest,often neat,the only problem i had was primer bulbs going soft and sucking in.and countless empty 3l bottles everywhere

The primer bulbs collapse when there's air in the fuel lines.

Was that an XUD or L series 200? I ran my 220Di on neat veg and had the engine run away, triggering the police and fire brigade... It nearly did it running on straight diesel too so may not have been a healthy one.

[lesapandre]

I have run my C15 and 4-litre Landcruiser on 100% veg  from the Supermarket. To aid starting however I put in about 10% - 20% diesel. Both have run 1000's miles like this no problems. Occasionally I treat them to a fill of 100% diesel especially if I am making a big trip fast like last week when I went London-Preston-London in the C15. Cheapest over the counter oil is Lidl I think at about 80p pl while stocks last. I usually walk out with 4x5 litre bottles so as not to take the piss but Lidl is 300m from our door so its easy to make a daily trip. I would never use recycled oil - too much risk of impurities and used oil can be a carcinogin.

[D Spares & Tyres]

I used to run 50/50 mostly. Apart from when I had a long journey, then I would warm the engine first then stick it in neat

[lesapandre]

I also always carry some in a jerry can. Its always nice to think you are independent of filling stations - I can fill up anywhere.

[lesapandre]

Before Lidl I think Tesco had the cheapest oil. I keep my eyes peeled for which supermarket has the best offer. No veg oil is above £1 Litre in bigger quantities - diesel is now about £1.35 pl in London now.

[Talbot]

I run a Mercedes S210 E300 on a fairly stiff mix of new SVO. I would run it even stronger, but cold starts on only 2 glowplugs of six is asking a bit much of it.

 

For proper running on 100% SVO or WVO, a twin-tank conversion really is the only sensible way forward.

[dome]

I've ran a Rover 200, a few Mercs and an Octavia on veg. Chinese supermarkets were a good source of cheap veg. I also had a source who sold of excess dewatered veg, all I had to do was filter it and it was good to go. I had no major issues with it and it feels good to beat the system and get cheap fuel!

[red5]

Indeed. Had one on my old 2.8. Manual thougg, pull the lever! Mad max style small tank in back. Might again if I ever keep something longer than 6 months.

[Scruffy Bodger]

My mate has been running his R reg 1.9 tdi quattro all summer on 100% veg oil, no problems whatsoever.

 

When I used to put it in XUD's I always found the best way to do it was don't get too greedy as soon as it starts getting colder. I've either run a mix of derv/veg or if very skint and it's very cold I've used strained second hand oil and put a gallon of petrol in the tank. Some XUD's seem to prefer veg more than others which is a bit odd, some love it, some not quite so much ime.

[Talbot]

Some XUD's seem to prefer veg more than others which is a bit odd, some love it, some not quite so much ime.

Pump timing. Same reason some XUDs will get about 10mpg more than others in the same application. If you get one that sounds *really* clattery (and hence it's timing is a bit more advanced than others) then they work better on Veg, as the burn is slower, so you need more advance to get the peak cylinder pressure at the right time.

[oldcars]

I tried running the 75 on Potatoes. I got a chip in the tank and they all leaked out..............

[Tamworthbay]

Done some research and it seems that some fuel pumps on the 2.5tdi don’t like veg so not worth risking it to save a few quid. Shame.

[Talbot]

to save a few quid.

It's more than a few quid though. I do about 20k miles a year in a car that does about 7 miles per litre (low-30's MPG). That's 2850 litres a year. (or in my case, 41 tanks of fuel.)

 

2850 litres is over £3800.

 

If I run 50/50 pump diesel and new veg at 90p/litre from sainsburys, that becomes £3200

 

If I run 20/80 pump diesel and new veg, that becomes £2800

 

If I run 20/80 pump diesel and waste veg at 30p/litre, that becomes £1450.

 

If I run a twin-tank setup, using diesel for the first couple of miles, then switch to WVO, that becomes £1000

 

If I got off my arse and collected/processed veg for myself, hence making it nearly free, that would be sub-£500.

 

Saving over £3k a year. Which if I had to earn that, means over £4k in salary.

 

Even if I got a new car that does 75mpg (which it blatantly won't, but that's a different argument) to do 20k miles would still cost over £1600

 

Worth it.

[Scruffy Bodger]

Pump timing. Same reason some XUDs will get about 10mpg more than others in the same application. If you get one that sounds *really* clattery (and hence it's timing is a bit more advanced than others) then they work better on Veg, as the burn is slower, so you need more advance to get the peak cylinder pressure at the right time.

 

Very, probably. I did however have one 405 that was consistently different to any of the others. If it was on diesel and I stuck a load of oil in it it would fire up and drive for a few hundred yards or so and then promptly cut out. A bit of a wind over and it was away again just as happy as it was before. Every other one I ran on it moved seamlessly from one fuel to another.

I've always been cautious about too much advance, puts too much stress on the rods. The 306 forum is littered with XUD's putting a leg out of bed, some people seem to like the sound of a ball bearing in a baked bean tin, me not so much.

[Tamworthbay]

It's more than a few quid though. I do about 20k miles a year in a car that does about 7 miles per litre (low-30's MPG). That's 2850 litres a year. (or in my case, 41 tanks of fuel.)2850 litres is over £3800.If I run 50/50 pump diesel and new veg at 90p/litre from sainsburys, that becomes £3200If I run 20/80 pump diesel and new veg, that becomes £2800If I run 20/80 pump diesel and waste veg at 30p/litre, that becomes £1450.If I run a twin-tank setup, using diesel for the first couple of miles, then switch to WVO, that becomes £1000If I got off my arse and collected/processed veg for myself, hence making it nearly free, that would be sub-£500.Saving over £3k a year. Which if I had to earn that, means over £4k in salary.Even if I got a new car that does 75mpg (which it blatantly won't, but that's a different argument) to do 20k miles would still cost over £1600Worth it.

That’s you, not me and it was my own situation I was commenting on, I will do about 6k a year in the V70 and the max I can find anyone has successfully run that engine on is 30% veg. So a saving of around £150 a year max with the risk of binning an expensive fuel pump or even the engine (not sure I believe the worst scare stories on some sites though).

[Talbot]

Very, probably. I did however have one 405 that was consistently different to any of the others. If it was on diesel and I stuck a load of oil in it it would fire up and drive for a few hundred yards or so and then promptly cut out. A bit of a wind over and it was away again just as happy as it was before.

Did it have the old porus fuel heater on the water pump inlet? These were a bastard for making engines cut out when you change to Oil, as the additional "suction" from the pump draws in more air.

I've always been cautious about too much advance, puts too much stress on the rods. The 306 forum is littered with XUD's putting a leg out of bed, some people seem to like the sound of a ball bearing in a baked bean tin, me not so much.

Likewise. Having seen the result of a Xsara TD putting a rod through the block I can't recommend it!

 

What's really needed is the Bosch pump from the 1.7TD engine, which had the timing advance lever on the front of the pump. generally useless these days as the waxstat that drives them failed in about 1997, but if you put a cable on it and use it manually, it becomes an excellent timing advance to use when running on oil.

[Talbot]

That’s you, not me and it was my own situation I was commenting on,

Fair point. I'll change my opinion to "worth it with the right car in the right circumstances" then

[Guest Hooli]

 

I've always been cautious about too much advance, puts too much stress on the rods. The 306 forum is littered with XUD's putting a leg out of bed, some people seem to like the sound of a ball bearing in a baked bean tin, me not so much.

 

it's fine while you're running on veg as the slower burning means it's not over-advanced in that situation. The problem occurs if you need to swap back to pump fuel.

[Tamworthbay]

Fair point. I'll change my opinion to "worth it with the right car in the right circumstances" then

definitely! That is why I was looking into it. If I could have run it on 80% veg without risk then even for my modest mileage it would have been a saving of £30-50 a month which is worth doing. It’s not the end of the world but sadly not a goer in my case.

[Scruffy Bodger]

Did it have the old porus fuel heater on the water pump inlet? These were a bastard for making engines cut out when you change to Oil, as the additional "suction" from the pump draws in more air.

 

 

No idea on that one, it was a Phase 1 NAD iirc? I tweaked the pump and timing a touch and it went very well for what it was, whatever fuel it was running on. It was so cheap to run I ended up driving it with a very heavy right foot and it simply refused to die. Sold it with about 250K on the clock and it served the old boy that bought it well too.

[lesapandre]

It's more than a few quid though. I do about 20k miles a year in a car that does about 7 miles per litre (low-30's MPG). That's 2850 litres a year. (or in my case, 41 tanks of fuel.)

 

2850 litres is over £3800.

 

If I run 50/50 pump diesel and new veg at 90p/litre from sainsburys, that becomes £3200

 

If I run 20/80 pump diesel and new veg, that becomes £2800

 

If I run 20/80 pump diesel and waste veg at 30p/litre, that becomes £1450.

 

If I run a twin-tank setup, using diesel for the first couple of miles, then switch to WVO, that becomes £1000

 

If I got off my arse and collected/processed veg for myself, hence making it nearly free, that would be sub-£500.

 

Saving over £3k a year. Which if I had to earn that, means over £4k in salary.

 

Even if I got a new car that does 75mpg (which it blatantly won't, but that's a different argument) to do 20k miles would still cost over £1600

 

Worth it.

Interestingly I have considered growing fuel - not seriously but it crossed my mind in an end of days scenario. Rapeseed and then mill and strain it. God knows what it would work out per litre, or what the yield is litre per metre squared of the crop. I think Top Gear did this?

[Talbot]

No idea on that one, it was a Phase 1 NAD iirc?

Yep, more than likely had it. Utterly useless and very straightforward to bypass. I had to bypass several of these when I ran 405s as they would do exactly what you mentioned. Start ok, and then stall within not very far. Crank it a fair bit, and off it goes again.. Worse in winter.

[bub2006]

If Bosch pump go for it. Early ones will be fine.