Jump to content


Welcome to Autoshite

Welcome to Autoshite, like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community, but don't worry this is a simple free process that requires minimal information for you to signup. Be apart of Autoshite by signing in or creating an account.
  • Start new topics and reply to others
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get automatic updates
  • Get your own profile and make new friends
  • Customize your experience here
Guest Message by DevFuse
 

Photo

reasons for engine wont run lean /normal...runs ok pig rich


  • Please log in to reply
30 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   steveo3002

steveo3002

    Rank: BL Wedge

  • Full Members
  • 899 posts
  • 11 thanks
  • Locationsaffron walden
  • Country : Country Flag

Posted 12 September 2018 - 04:39 PM

car failed its mot today 10% co

 

gets home and fiddle with it , i can get the emissions down sensible levels but it runs terrible popping and banging out the exhaust

 

everything i can check seems all good condition /normal

 

it has a crude diagnostics that doesnt highlight any problems

 

stuck where to look now 

 

polo 3f engine code 



#2 OFFLINE   M'coli

M'coli

    Rank: Lancia Gamma

  • Full Members
  • 7,984 posts
  • 15 thanks
  • LocationSemper semi somnus
  • Country : Country Flag

Posted 12 September 2018 - 04:53 PM

Carb or EFi?

"How would ya get a maaa-chine to do that?"


#3 OFFLINE   Parky

Parky

    I don't watch much Television

  • Full Members
  • 5,605 posts
  • 70 thanks
  • LocationBut I hear Breaking Bad is very good
  • Country : Country Flag

Posted 12 September 2018 - 04:55 PM

Where to start! Is the timing correct? I would check that first, then I would go to the distributor to see if everything is behaving in there, then HT leads, then vacuum pipes, and finally the carb.

Clean stuff before the messy stuff!

An old Renault of mine ran like shit when professionally tuned with similar symptoms to yours. I found the timing was out and a few degrees of advance made a massive difference hence my timing suggestion initially
  • The Moog and DSdriver like this

#4 OFFLINE   steveo3002

steveo3002

    Rank: BL Wedge

  • Full Members
  • 899 posts
  • 11 thanks
  • Locationsaffron walden
  • Country : Country Flag

Posted 12 September 2018 - 05:01 PM

mpi 

 

everything i can think of /read about has been checked /swapped ..all new service parts that are decent brands

 

cam and ign timing checked over and over ..ign timing doesnt help it when lean 

 

just sort of looking for generic ideas really...doesnt make much sense to me



#5 OFFLINE   Heritage motor centre

Heritage motor centre

    Feckless Idiot

  • Full Members
  • 3,813 posts
  • 6 thanks
  • LocationDevon
  • Country : Country Flag

Posted 12 September 2018 - 05:18 PM

Possibly an air leak? Could cause high co and could also be compensated for by richening the mixture as you described. Had an awful fiesta once that was guilty of this, carb baseplate leak
  • Barry Cade. and Parky like this
1992 Citroen BX 16TGS estate
1996 Nissan Micra 1.0 “shape”
1998 Saab 900 XS 5 door

#6 OFFLINE   BoggyMires

BoggyMires

    Rank: BL Wedge

  • Full Members
  • 500 posts
  • 8 thanks
  • LocationThe A14
  • Country : Country Flag

Posted 12 September 2018 - 05:23 PM

I've had 4 polos and each one has suffered with crankcase breathing problems from blocking up to actually being sick, everywhere. They were all carbs though. Don't know what an mpi is but I'm guessing like most things that age it's a single point injection shoved on an old engine.

 

There opens a whole new world. High co means it's not exploding properly and letting out unburnt fuel so it could be anything related to ignition, breathing or sensors. I imagine it has a coolant temp sensor somewhere? Despite what the gauge says, that'll run off a different sensor... Probably.

 

You'll need to determine that the information the ECU is receiving is correct and you can do that by testing the parameters of the sensors. The hardest bit sometimes is getting that information to guide you. Google is your friend.

 

Ooh, look what I found...

 

KeGqOYL5.jpg

 

 

Check it's breathing properly, check your Sparks.


1986 BMW 635CSi - The battle has commenced! (Again...)

1998 BMW E36 318i Touring - Works very well
2001 Land Rover Discovery V8 - Works very well (seriously...)

 

event.png


#7 OFFLINE   Junkman

Junkman

    Totally and properly Renault R16!

  • Full Members
  • 44,173 posts
  • 57 thanks
  • LocationStockport, England
  • Country : Country Flag

Posted 12 September 2018 - 05:23 PM

Camshaft is fucked.


1967 Renault 16 GL................................................now with porous sills

1979 Mobylette AV89.............................................................running

1992 Mercedes-Benz 230E.....................too bloody sensible, whatever that is
1997 Peugeot 405 2.0 Executive Estate..................now with aircon and brakes


#8 OFFLINE   Barry Cade.

Barry Cade.

    Rank: Renault 16

  • Full Members
  • 3,647 posts
  • 27 thanks
  • LocationWear the fox hat
  • Country : Country Flag

Posted 12 September 2018 - 06:06 PM

I'd second an air leak,Polo's were terrible for this, but if not,junkman could be on to something, Most polo's had a spray bar which could block up and wear the lobes.


  • Heritage motor centre likes this

2002 Shotgun Pinin Animal

2004 Daihatsu Charade SL

2002 Mercedes Vito Traveliner camper
 


#9 OFFLINE   steveo3002

steveo3002

    Rank: BL Wedge

  • Full Members
  • 899 posts
  • 11 thanks
  • Locationsaffron walden
  • Country : Country Flag

Posted 12 September 2018 - 06:15 PM

cam looked alright a few weeks back

 

yes does point at an airleak ...ive tried spraying round it , nothing , resealed the inlet etc  



#10 OFFLINE   Barry Cade.

Barry Cade.

    Rank: Renault 16

  • Full Members
  • 3,647 posts
  • 27 thanks
  • LocationWear the fox hat
  • Country : Country Flag

Posted 12 September 2018 - 08:08 PM

Check all the pipes at the airbox, and the servo pipe if it's fitted.


2002 Shotgun Pinin Animal

2004 Daihatsu Charade SL

2002 Mercedes Vito Traveliner camper
 


#11 OFFLINE   FOAD

FOAD

    I am a member!

  • Full Members
  • 4,026 posts
  • 14 thanks
  • Country : Country Flag

Posted 12 September 2018 - 08:19 PM

Mpi = multi point injection, 3f is the engine code for the polo gt engine.
I can't really help with the issues but this info might help others with the diagnosis.

Sent from my G3311 using Tapatalk
  • BoggyMires likes this

#12 OFFLINE   twosmoke300

twosmoke300

    Rank: Isuzu Florian

  • Full Members
  • 9,293 posts
  • 62 thanks
  • LocationCornwall
  • Country : Country Flag

Posted 12 September 2018 - 08:22 PM

I’d guess coolant temp sensor .
  • Barry Cade. likes this

One of the funniest things ive read on here - RIP Dave

 

Quote

 

Brilliant... late in for lunch I fired up an off-brand pot noodle and while carrying it to the lounge successfully spilled it all over myself, burned the piss out of my hand, soaked my phone with the juice, soaked a load of expense receipts I was also carrying and it hit the hall floor and just fucking exploded....it was literally dripping from the ceiling in my newly decorated hallway. The obvious and considered reaction was to throw an immediate, massive paddy and boot the fucker down the hall while screaming, which has made the whole scenario about 18 times worse.


#13 OFFLINE   pilninggas

pilninggas

    Rank: Austin Maxi

  • Full Members
  • 469 posts
  • 6 thanks
  • LocationCil-y-Coed, Sir Fynwy, Cymru; exiled from Bryste, Lloegr
  • Country : Country Flag

Posted 12 September 2018 - 08:25 PM

Lambda problems? [assuming it has one]

 

Duff sensor? bad earth for the sensor? failed heater?

 

Edit: ^^^ post above, more likely to be right.


Shite formerly owned: Primera renault 11, peugeot 405, renault 19, renault laguna x3, all more shite than the previous one), kia clarus, mondeo, jeep cheroshite.

 

Shite at present: New Autoshite Gold -  A 64plate DACIA DUSTER ACCESS: to quote a widespread takeaway - i'm lovin' it....

 

Shite taxi'd: 406, fried montego, vectra, fiat-house-on-wheels.

 

Moto-shite owned: [un]superdream, simson SR50 (east german thingy), cb250rs, jinlun (china-shite).

Not motoshite owned: ZR50, RXS100 x 2, RD350YPVS, FZR1000 x 2, TDM850, XV535, ZX6R, XJ6 x 2, FZ1S, RG250 Gamma


#14 OFFLINE   steveo3002

steveo3002

    Rank: BL Wedge

  • Full Members
  • 899 posts
  • 11 thanks
  • Locationsaffron walden
  • Country : Country Flag

Posted 12 September 2018 - 08:41 PM

coolant sender new and liva data reads like it should so ought to be golden



#15 ONLINE   Zelandeth

Zelandeth

    Rank: Citroen Ami

  • Full Members
  • 1,423 posts
  • 16 thanks
  • LocationMilton Keynes
  • Country : Country Flag

Posted 12 September 2018 - 09:29 PM

Does this have a distributor & rotor arm?

My Saab 900 was behaving *exactly* as though it was leaning out excessively when it turned out to have been fitted with the wrong rotor arm (bloody Intermotor catalogue).

Odd thing was that it ran absolutely fine for a week before this problem surfaced suddenly and out of nowhere.

Took me a month of faffing around before I randomly tried sticking the old rotor arm back on...problem solved!
  • steveo3002 likes this

Current fleet: 1996 Citroen Xantia 2.0T Activa. 1993 Lada Riva 1.5EFi Estate.  1990 Mercedes 208D Auto Trail Navajo.  1985 Sinclair C5.  1973 & 1975 AC Model 70s.


#16 OFFLINE   BoggyMires

BoggyMires

    Rank: BL Wedge

  • Full Members
  • 500 posts
  • 8 thanks
  • LocationThe A14
  • Country : Country Flag

Posted 12 September 2018 - 09:37 PM

So how does the MAF or AFM sensor read, airflow and air temp? 


1986 BMW 635CSi - The battle has commenced! (Again...)

1998 BMW E36 318i Touring - Works very well
2001 Land Rover Discovery V8 - Works very well (seriously...)

 

event.png


#17 OFFLINE   steveo3002

steveo3002

    Rank: BL Wedge

  • Full Members
  • 899 posts
  • 11 thanks
  • Locationsaffron walden
  • Country : Country Flag

Posted 13 September 2018 - 05:32 AM

So how does the MAF or AFM sensor read, airflow and air temp? 

 its a flap to measure the air flow and a small temp probe inside it , scanner suggests the temp is true



#18 OFFLINE   BoggyMires

BoggyMires

    Rank: BL Wedge

  • Full Members
  • 500 posts
  • 8 thanks
  • LocationThe A14
  • Country : Country Flag

Posted 13 September 2018 - 05:49 AM

Yeah but is yours working properly is what I meant. Have you checked that the flap is measuring the airflow correctly at different stages? I know only too well what a bad AFM can do to engine performance and they wear out.


1986 BMW 635CSi - The battle has commenced! (Again...)

1998 BMW E36 318i Touring - Works very well
2001 Land Rover Discovery V8 - Works very well (seriously...)

 

event.png


#19 OFFLINE   twosmoke300

twosmoke300

    Rank: Isuzu Florian

  • Full Members
  • 9,293 posts
  • 62 thanks
  • LocationCornwall
  • Country : Country Flag

Posted 13 September 2018 - 06:02 AM

What were your hc readings ? Co that high is often a misfire . Have you been adjusting the mixture screw on the airflow meter ? Put that back to std as a starter .

One of the funniest things ive read on here - RIP Dave

 

Quote

 

Brilliant... late in for lunch I fired up an off-brand pot noodle and while carrying it to the lounge successfully spilled it all over myself, burned the piss out of my hand, soaked my phone with the juice, soaked a load of expense receipts I was also carrying and it hit the hall floor and just fucking exploded....it was literally dripping from the ceiling in my newly decorated hallway. The obvious and considered reaction was to throw an immediate, massive paddy and boot the fucker down the hall while screaming, which has made the whole scenario about 18 times worse.


#20 OFFLINE   steveo3002

steveo3002

    Rank: BL Wedge

  • Full Members
  • 899 posts
  • 11 thanks
  • Locationsaffron walden
  • Country : Country Flag

Posted 13 September 2018 - 06:07 AM

i didnt note it all down ...i think it may have been 1300 ish , but at 9% it would be miles out no?

 

ive marked all the settings and can revert back to standard /also have a spare afm thats got all the anti tamper bungs

 

default /standard setting is about lean enough for a pass , but runs awefull , make it rich and its smooth /normal sounding 

 

i have a video i can wahtsapp to anyone that wants 



#21 OFFLINE   steveo3002

steveo3002

    Rank: BL Wedge

  • Full Members
  • 899 posts
  • 11 thanks
  • Locationsaffron walden
  • Country : Country Flag

Posted 14 September 2018 - 12:04 PM

should i be investing in a compression tester?

 

the engine did 1500 miles or so with a carb , zero issues passed mot with super low readings 

 

now with the inj fitted , starts on the button , no blow by out the filler cap /breathers , runs good above idle or super rich

 

not convinced its a low comp issue but runnng out of ideas  



#22 OFFLINE   steveo3002

steveo3002

    Rank: BL Wedge

  • Full Members
  • 899 posts
  • 11 thanks
  • Locationsaffron walden
  • Country : Country Flag

Posted 14 September 2018 - 07:05 PM



#23 OFFLINE   DodgeRover

DodgeRover

    Rank: Lancia Gamma

  • Full Members
  • 5,894 posts
  • 87 thanks

Posted 14 September 2018 - 07:06 PM

Is the lambda sensor working and connected?

#24 OFFLINE   steveo3002

steveo3002

    Rank: BL Wedge

  • Full Members
  • 899 posts
  • 11 thanks
  • Locationsaffron walden
  • Country : Country Flag

Posted 14 September 2018 - 07:08 PM

it works - i can see the signal



#25 OFFLINE   Barry Cade.

Barry Cade.

    Rank: Renault 16

  • Full Members
  • 3,647 posts
  • 27 thanks
  • LocationWear the fox hat
  • Country : Country Flag

Posted 14 September 2018 - 07:30 PM

Does it have an idle switch on the throttle body if it's a cable throttle, if so is it clicking when throttle is released?

If it's not closing the switch it will go rich and upset the mixture


2002 Shotgun Pinin Animal

2004 Daihatsu Charade SL

2002 Mercedes Vito Traveliner camper
 


#26 OFFLINE   DodgeRover

DodgeRover

    Rank: Lancia Gamma

  • Full Members
  • 5,894 posts
  • 87 thanks

Posted 14 September 2018 - 08:05 PM

it works - i can see the signal


Does it say it's running rich?

#27 ONLINE   Zelandeth

Zelandeth

    Rank: Citroen Ami

  • Full Members
  • 1,423 posts
  • 16 thanks
  • LocationMilton Keynes
  • Country : Country Flag

Posted 14 September 2018 - 08:32 PM

Leaner mixture needs a stronger spark. Are you getting a good, strong spark?

Current fleet: 1996 Citroen Xantia 2.0T Activa. 1993 Lada Riva 1.5EFi Estate.  1990 Mercedes 208D Auto Trail Navajo.  1985 Sinclair C5.  1973 & 1975 AC Model 70s.


#28 OFFLINE   steveo3002

steveo3002

    Rank: BL Wedge

  • Full Members
  • 899 posts
  • 11 thanks
  • Locationsaffron walden
  • Country : Country Flag

Posted 14 September 2018 - 08:46 PM

no throttle switch ..does have a tps which registers as it should with pedal movement 

 

spark- all new bits n bobs , plugs, leads, cap ,arm all good brands



#29 OFFLINE   Barry Cade.

Barry Cade.

    Rank: Renault 16

  • Full Members
  • 3,647 posts
  • 27 thanks
  • LocationWear the fox hat
  • Country : Country Flag

Posted 14 September 2018 - 09:45 PM

Is the TPS adjustable?

If it ran well and clean on carb, then rule out anything below the inlet , If it runs well on throttle, then it has to be connected to the idle circuit. Find out the settings for the idle voltages for the TPS if adjustable and set it exactly before anything else, then adjust around this. The ECU needs to know the throttle is closed..


  • steveo3002 likes this

2002 Shotgun Pinin Animal

2004 Daihatsu Charade SL

2002 Mercedes Vito Traveliner camper
 


#30 OFFLINE   derskine

derskine

    Rank: J reg

  • Full Members
  • 1,901 posts
  • 2 thanks
  • LocationLocal
  • Country : Country Flag

Posted 14 September 2018 - 11:24 PM

I had a GT that ran rich and drank fuel. I changed most sensors (blue temp, lambda, tps) but never got to the bottom of it. It might sound strange but have you tried a different ecu?

1966 MK1 Cortina 1500 Deluxe
1971 Hillman Imp

1983 Volkswagen Polo Breadvan
1984 Volvo 360 GLE Saloon
1987 Volvo 340 1.7GL

 

 





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users