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Wanted

wanted an invacar AC Model 70 (and general ramble thread, with survivors list on Page 26 and thread index on page 1)

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#631 OFFLINE   Datsuncog

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 01:35 PM

(as a side note and if all else fails, and this is very cheeky, but if it has internal handles still, I think you might be able to slide one of the opening windows with the palm of your hand and pop the door open from the inside...)

 

Heh, I actually did try that! Unfortunately the little rubber levers mounted to the glass that press down against the frame seemed to be on very tightly, on both sides, so despite all my palming and rubbing, the glass just wouldn't slide...

 

20190205_123425.jpg

 

After a few attempts, I gave up in case security arrived and carted me off for doing something obscene to a Model 70...


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#632 OFFLINE   LightBulbFun

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 02:03 PM

Heh, I actually did try that! Unfortunately the little levers mounted to the glass that press down against the frame seemed to be on very tightly, on both sides, so despite all my palming and rubbing, the glass just wouldn't slide...

 

attachicon.gif20190205_123425.jpg

 

After a few attempts, I gave up in case security arrived and carted me off for doing something obscene to a Model 70...

 

Aw and the kid in Juliet Bravo made it look so easy  :mrgreen: its a shame its missing door handles, as they all used the same key... (that might be WHY its missing door handles... depends how well someone in the museum knows their invacars) 

 

(good view of the dash at least, and as mentioned, it has the later larger speedo, so that lends credence to 9/77)

 

also posted this in the Microcar world FB group, so far iv not been lynched so off to a good start me thinks :)

 

Screenshot 2019-02-11 at 14.05.45.png


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#633 OFFLINE   wuvvum

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 02:30 PM

Semi-off-topic question: would the Innocenti be eligible to attend a microcar rally?  It's only 659cc, and it's certainly rare, but I'm not sure whether it might be too close to being a "proper" car.


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#634 OFFLINE   somewhatfoolish

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 02:33 PM

I should think running the register is a bit of a thankless task tbh.
Plasticvandam has answered every query that I can see but I think he could do with a bit of a break.

If the person with the database/collection of random papers/mr. Trebus' rejected poly bags of shite isn't willing to administer it then it should be found a home where it is accessible, in a museum or library; many university libraries are willing to accept unique original source material.


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post-9424-0-06631200-1530529320.jpg


#635 OFFLINE   LightBulbFun

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 02:34 PM

Semi-off-topic question: would the Innocenti be eligible to attend a microcar rally?  It's only 659cc, and it's certainly rare, but I'm not sure whether it might be too close to being a "proper" car.

 

considering DW showed up in a Citroen 2CV last year i think ya should be fine :)

 

outa curiosity which one is it? googling shows that that to be a brand/company rather then a specific car :)



#636 OFFLINE   LightBulbFun

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 02:37 PM

If the person with the database/collection of random papers/mr. Trebus' rejected poly bags of shite isn't willing to administer it then it should be found a home where it is accessible, in a museum or library; many university libraries are willing to accept unique original source material.

 

if I was "next door" so to speak, id be more then happy to go through all the paper work/data bases and A absorb it all for my own knowledge

 

and B scan it all in somewhere/somehow, and then stick it up online so anyone can have a read of it :)

 

(I think its vital such info is also backed up to the cloud so it cant be lost)


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#637 OFFLINE   wuvvum

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 02:53 PM

outa curiosity which one is it? googling shows that that to be a brand/company rather then a specific car :)

It's this one.

 

PICT0628.jpg

 

Wobbler did a road test of it here:

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=547glAAli9k

 

considering DW showed up in a Citroen 2CV last year i think ya should be fine :)

 I refer the honourable gentleman to my previous comment about "proper" cars.

 

*runs, hides*


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#638 ONLINE   dollywobbler

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 03:11 PM

Semi-off-topic question: would the Innocenti be eligible to attend a microcar rally?  It's only 659cc, and it's certainly rare, but I'm not sure whether it might be too close to being a "proper" car.

 

There's definitely a feeling amongst some in the Microcar world that the rules should be opened up. They're keen to get visitor numbers up, so I say take the Innocenti. It'll look huge and ridiculous, much like my 2CV did last year (incidentally, not the only 2CV either), but I think it will fit in.


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#639 OFFLINE   Yoss

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 06:56 PM

yaaaay lightbulb and Routemaster stuff  :)
 
thank you for posting that,
 
I found it very interesting, (I do have Somewhere... a Lightbulb guide for Routemasters from one of the RMOOA magazines i got back in the day)
 
tis very cool that you have some orignial LT ones, im actually not 100% sure on who made those
 
I had a couple from RML2760 (given to me by the conductor not stolen!) sadly 1 broke, and the second I got to replace that one, sadly met a very explosive end when I failed to realise my Variac (Variable voltage auto transformer) was set to 270V and not 24V....
 
I would love to get an orignial LT example (and a new modern one) for the collection at some point :)
 
from examining the features I want to say the LT examples where made by GEC in Shaw, Oldham, I am not sure who made the moderns, I would like to hope they where made by Victoria lighting (which was a small company setup to produce special types made by GEC, when GEC got bought out and the rest of the factory sent overseas), but I dont think they have made lightbulbs here since 2003
 
interesting that your head lights are 12V, when I was at Routemaster 60 in 2014, I handed over far too much cash to one of the stalls there selling bus parts for some Lightbulbs, (for both the collection and as a memento) and both types of Headlamp bulbs I got where 24V (but then again the saloon bulb he sold me was 60W! rather then 22W, which I know is wrong, and is quite naughty given the potential to heavily overload the wiring if you outfit an entire bus with them)
 
as for the ones that go dim, id try giving your lamp holder contacts a good polishing, as they are probably a bit oxidised after 50 years of use :) (and on the original lamps, giving the solder contacts on the base a light reflowing)
 
Cool see you have the inside illuminated advert as well as your rare external ones :)
 
do you have pictures of the old tube that failed the light? im curious if it was actually at EOL or if you just had a bad ground or such preventing it from starting properly
 
(the early electronic ballasts are designed for T12 tubes only and only put out a 200-300V OCV to strike the tube, so you need a good ground going along the tube to ensure they strike up properly, they actually made/make T12 tubes with a painted metal stripe along the tube connected to one end cap shell that you can ground incase you cant mount the tube near a grounded metal surface, you can actually see the metal toung that does this in your picture showing the lamp holder, but getting ahold of those special T12s is quite tricky these days as even regular T12 tubes get thin on the ground)
 
which is why the old tube glowed brighter when you touched it, because you where providing a grounding path helping the tube conduct electricity slightly easier
 
I have recorded such phenomena happening here :)
 
https://www.youtube....h?v=3S2wmRWvET0
 
if your wondering, that Osram 20W T12 was made made by Philips at their Hamilton Factory up in Scotland in (date code is N0b8 ohhh errr :oops:  :mrgreen:  ) November 2000 :)
 
(you can easily tell its a Philips made tube for Osram even without the date code or such, because of its classic Philips stepped end cap design)
 
heres some Warm white Sylvania tubes if your interested in stocking up on T12s for it  :) (Warm white too should match with the tungsten saloon lighting better) https://www.ebay.co....tm/322044243194
 
 
I wish I could pop round and get all 5 of the tubes in the advert working  :mrgreen: (also very curious to see what tubes its rocking)



Thanks for the detailed reply (I wouldn't have expected anything else!). A few points from above. Taking the bulbs out and cleaning the contacts would be a good idea if it wasnt for the afforementioned fact that if you try and remove the original ones the glass bowl will come off in your hand leaving the brass bayonet behind. I know I should stop being a skinflint and buy enough new bulbs to do the whole bus but I like the fact that some of these bulbs are over 30 years old (and possibly considerably older than that). If it was still in service I would probably have to replace them but as it only gets a class 5 MOT they dont even try the interior lights.

The interior fluorescent tube I took out had no markings at all. Thanks for the link, 25 of those would last me about 300 years, but it's good to know they're that cheap. Be useful if I had an RMC or RCL, they do have fluorescent saloon lights. One day...

As for getting the exterior advert going, I know it wouldn't take much, simply holding them as your clip shows would probably work. There's just one problem there - they are behind three big perspex panels. The bulbs are essentially on the outside of the bus with the three perspex panels held in place with a rubber seal a bit like an old car windscreen rubber which inevitably leaks. It's little wonder they were so unreliable in service.

To get these panels out you need a scaffold tower and ideally two people. I last took it out in 2006. The advert you see in the picture, I had made by a local sign company. I chose this partly for its simplicity and partly because my bus carried this very advert in 1985/6. It was very common at the time on the illuminated advert buses. The sign company gave me some large sheets of yellow vinyl and did the lettering separately. I took the three panels home and layed them out down the garden path to apply the advert.

Unfortunately one of the panels snapped in half when I was getting it back out of the car but the vinyl held it together so we put it back in the bus as it was.

The advert has been on there over 12 years now and is looking a bit tatty. It does need replacing, then we could sort the fluorescent tubes out properly but I seem to have about a hundred more pressing jobs to do first.

Looking again at this picture,
IMG_20190210_204750.jpg
it would appear that each tube is roughly the same length as a window. This would make each one about four foot long. Does that sound right? Four times four foot and a two foot one at the back would make the advert panel nearly nineteen foot long allowing for a small gap between each one. On a 27' 4" bus that looks about right. Are four foot tubes still readily available?
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#640 OFFLINE   LightBulbFun

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 06:57 PM

im pleased to report my post on facebook has gone down well :)

 

(its a shame its on facebook, the website design sucks!)

 

where iv been talking to a few of the invacar savvy people

 

and one of them gave me a drop box link to a bundle of photos of various invalid carriages they themselves had come across

 

and in there was not only a Model 70 I had not come across yet, but also detailed shots of a Model 67! woo

 

heres the Model 70 TTW906R, its a close reletive to TTW991R :) ( Stuart  told me he owned this one himself at one point :) )

 

 

TTW 906R_High Res.png

 

 

 

 

and heres a few of the Model 67 shots

 

ac1.jpg

 

ac3.jpg

 

ac2.jpg

 

ac4.jpg


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#641 OFFLINE   LightBulbFun

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 07:20 PM

Thanks for the detailed reply (I wouldn't have expected anything else!). A few points from above. Taking the bulbs out and cleaning the contacts would be a good idea if it wasnt for the afforementioned fact that if you try and remove the original ones the glass bowl will come off in your hand leaving the brass bayonet behind. I know I should stop being a skinflint and buy enough new bulbs to do the whole bus but I like the fact that some of these bulbs are over 30 years old (and possibly considerably older than that). If it was still in service I would probably have to replace them but as it only gets a class 5 MOT they dont even try the interior lights.

The interior fluorescent tube I took out had no markings at all. Thanks for the link, 25 of those would last me about 300 years, but it's good to know they're that cheap. Be useful if I had an RMC or RCL, they do have fluorescent saloon lights. One day...

As for getting the exterior advert going, I know it wouldn't take much, simply holding them as your clip shows would probably work. There's just one problem there - they are behind three big perspex panels. The bulbs are essentially on the outside of the bus with the three perspex panels held in place with a rubber seal a bit like an old car windscreen rubber which inevitably leaks. It's little wonder they were so unreliable in service.

To get these panels out you need a scaffold tower and ideally two people. I last took it out in 2006. The advert you see in the picture, I had made by a local sign company. I chose this partly for its simplicity and partly because my bus carried this very advert in 1985/6. It was very common at the time on the illuminated advert buses. The sign company gave me some large sheets of yellow vinyl and did the lettering separately. I took the three panels home and layed them out down the garden path to apply the advert.

Unfortunately one of the panels snapped in half when I was getting it back out of the car but the vinyl held it together so we put it back in the bus as it was.

The advert has been on there over 12 years now and is looking a bit tatty. It does need replacing, then we could sort the fluorescent tubes out properly but I seem to have about a hundred more pressing jobs to do first.

Looking again at this picture,
attachicon.gifIMG_20190210_204750.jpg
it would appear that each tube is roughly the same length as a window. This would make each one about four foot long. Does that sound right? Four times four foot and a two foot one at the back would make the advert panel nearly nineteen foot long allowing for a small gap between each one. On a 27' 4" bus that looks about right. Are four foot tubes still readily available?

 

yeah the caps coming lose is a problem us collectors face too sadly, (its one of the reasons I think they are GEC made too, as GEC is known for having somewhat weak cap cement)

 

a good substitute for a metal striped tube if you cant get ahold of one, is to take a strand of wire and wrap it around the tube in a spiral and then tie to ground :)
 

yeah 4ft sounds about right for the main tubes (and is what I think I worked out when i asked you about it in the bus shite thread) :) ) 4ft T12 tubes are relatively common still but they are starting to get a bit thin on the ground now sadly

 

 

I wonder why early fluorescent saloon lighting in buses was done with 2ft tubes, when 4ft gear was available...

 

I remember coming across an RMA resting somewhere in London and the owner kindly let me onboard, and one of his lights had a missing cover, and the tube was a Mid 1970s Thorn one which was a proper treat to see :)

 

(was also my first time seeing an RMA in the flesh :) )



#642 OFFLINE   LightBulbFun

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 07:33 PM

Finally got some more infomation on RRE20L! :)

 

Fraser got it and then it went to a chap in London somewhere...

 

RRE20L.jpg

 

checkout the decals on the Van! :)

 

(Fraser also owned TTW991R)


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#643 ONLINE   egg

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 07:43 PM

I'm loving the Facebook thread LBF, it's like all your birthday's coming at once :-)


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#644 OFFLINE   LightBulbFun

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 07:45 PM

I'm loving the Facebook thread LBF, it's like all your birthday's coming at once :-)

 

I Know right?! having a hard time keeping up with it all  :mrgreen:

 

(update on VES108S, turns out its Frasers current Model 70, drives but does not stop)



#645 ONLINE   egg

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 08:12 PM

I particularly like the bit where Big Al suggests you should ask Simon if you can become the registrar for the register!


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#646 OFFLINE   LightBulbFun

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 08:46 PM

I particularly like the bit where Big Al suggests you should ask Simon if you can become the registrar for the register!

 

haha yeah :) maybe someday

 

tis defo something iv given some thought too, given the poor state things are currently in with the ICR sadly

 

one for Zel here, Barry had this chassis, and I was thinking "that section of rear valance would come in really handy for TPA" :)

 

GPB545N.jpg

 

he said these where in running order and he drove em round the garden, imagine how rapid they must be with no body work and a now lower center of mass!

 

3 wheeling go cart :) (or Invacar Superleggera  :mrgreen: )


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#647 OFFLINE   SierraMikeHotel

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 09:09 PM

Thanks for the Routemaster content: those spherical bulbs were part of the whole experience and seeing them takes me straight back to childhood. Did they use the same ones in mark 1 BR coaches? At that level that you can't quite read by.
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#648 OFFLINE   LightBulbFun

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 09:23 PM

Thanks for the Routemaster content: those spherical bulbs were part of the whole experience and seeing them takes me straight back to childhood. Did they use the same ones in mark 1 BR coaches? At that level that you can't quite read by.

 

the 22W lightbulbs Yoss posted where unique to London Transport any other bus probably used something like the smaller bulb yoss also posted about :)

 

(Bus bulbs where normally 12W or 20W, LTs ones where special 22W ones, with most other bus bulbs being of the smaller type, there where ones of the same size as the LT type but they too where 12 or 20W only) I very much prefer good old tungsten lighting in an environment like a Routemaster, fits the whole styling/theme very well nice and cosy :)

 

 

 

 

Dollywobbler just posted this picture on facebook, and I thought MVW434P looked oddly familiar then it hit me! (WHK372L is new to me also, another one i can add to the survivor list :) )

 

 

51939190_10157121962243200_1068545016651055104_o.jpg

 

its a close relative to the one in Thiland :)

 

20121211164422b.jpg

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#649 OFFLINE   mrbenn

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 09:41 PM


Dollywobbler just posted this picture on facebook, and I thought MVW434P looked oddly familiar then it hit me! (WHK372L is new to me also, another one i can add to the survivor list :) )

 

 

attachicon.gif51939190_10157121962243200_1068545016651055104_o.jpg

 

its a close relative to the one in Thiland :)

 

 

Where did DW post that, out of interest? AS page?


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#650 OFFLINE   LightBulbFun

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 09:44 PM

here (if the link works) https://www.facebook...=group_activity :)

 

and heres my post https://www.facebook...110934332282851 :)


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#651 OFFLINE   mrbenn

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 09:45 PM

Ah, many thanks!

 

ETA which one are you on your profile pic LBF? I'm going to say the one on the right.


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#652 OFFLINE   LightBulbFun

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 09:49 PM

Ah, many thanks!

 

ETA which one are you on your profile pic LBF? I'm going to say the one on the right.

 

:mrgreen: my profile picture on Facebook is taken from the 50th anniversary episode of Doctor who when they just burst through the painting into the black archive, I thought that scene/shot was particularly epic :)

 

(oh and my age on FB you can ignore too, Sept 7th is my Month/day but 1933 was picked because thats when London Transport was formed :) )


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#653 OFFLINE   mrbenn

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 09:50 PM

I'm afraid my FB stalking didn't extend past looking at your pic. I have the attention span of a goldfish with ADHD :mrgreen:


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#654 OFFLINE   Squire_Dawson

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 10:19 PM

I knew GEC had a factory at Trafford Park but had no idea they also had operations in Shaw. It must've been a massive firm in its heyday.

A major annoyance of mine - someone has to be annoyed by these things - is the proliferation of LEDs in preserved coaching stock. KWVR have a fine set of Metropolitan suburban coaches and they used the standard pearl light bulbs. Last time I travelled on them these had gone and were replaced by some flickering 'atmospheric heritage' shit. Like when the Cuntcil rips out 100-odd year old cast iron lamp standards and replaces them with something modern made to look 'old'.


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Squeak, rattle and roll.

 

 

Thanks restorer.

 

Save the Pangolins.

 

Current shite:

1952 Morris Oxford Series MO - Sidevalve Shite

1959 Humber Super Snipe - Gas guzzler

1962 Morris 1000 Traveller - English Tudorbethan

1975 Austin Allegro 1100 DL - m'Lod

 

Please look out for hedgehogs!


#655 OFFLINE   Squire_Dawson

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 10:20 PM

And it cannot be for want of bulbs they were replaced. I'm sure CEAG manufacture them.


Squeak, rattle and roll.

 

 

Thanks restorer.

 

Save the Pangolins.

 

Current shite:

1952 Morris Oxford Series MO - Sidevalve Shite

1959 Humber Super Snipe - Gas guzzler

1962 Morris 1000 Traveller - English Tudorbethan

1975 Austin Allegro 1100 DL - m'Lod

 

Please look out for hedgehogs!


#656 OFFLINE   LightBulbFun

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 10:32 PM

I knew GEC had a factory at Trafford Park but had no idea they also had operations in Shaw. It must've been a massive firm in its heyday.

A major annoyance of mine - someone has to be annoyed by these things - is the proliferation of LEDs in preserved coaching stock. KWVR have a fine set of Metropolitan suburban coaches and they used the standard pearl light bulbs. Last time I travelled on them these had gone and were replaced by some flickering 'atmospheric heritage' shit. Like when the Cuntcil rips out 100-odd year old cast iron lamp standards and replaces them with something modern made to look 'old'.

 

indeed GEC was a pretty big company during its heyday heres some detailed info on the shaw factory :) http://www.lamptech....- UK - Shaw.htm

 

I fully agree with you on the LED crap


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#657 OFFLINE   LightBulbFun

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 10:57 PM

Just got told by Stuart that they did sell Model 70s privately!

 

and that both RRE20L and VES108S are such examples, with VES108S being the very last Invacar Model 70 off the production line :)

 

how awesome is that?! that the very last Invacar survives! (he says AC did make about 15 after VES108S, he also says that a total of 25 Model 70s where sold privately between 1971-1978 and that 5 of those are known today :) )

 

this exactly the sort of juicy information I was hoping for  :mrgreen:


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#658 OFFLINE   LightBulbFun

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 11:10 PM

while im geeking out :)

 

Iv also discovered why the Aussie Model 67 has no front mould lines

 

IMG_8982.JPG

 

this is because apparently, the whole "Model" naming scheme came from the DHSS

 

with the Model 67 being known by AC as the "Mk14" and the "Mk15"

 

the difference being small things, but one of those things is the lack of mould lines on the Mk15 :)

 

(also fun fact the Invacar Mk12 was known as the Model 66 in the DHSS)

 

Oh and that official paint codes do exist!


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#659 OFFLINE   Mrcento

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 11:42 PM

You've probably seen this 100x over, but in my search for things, i spotted this kids book..... Random, but a cool little thing.

 

https://www.amazon.c...=forsalecouk-21

 

51jDp4Xc5WL.jpg


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Fiat Cinquecento Sporting 1.2 16v conversion


#660 OFFLINE   LightBulbFun

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 12:11 AM

You've probably seen this 100x over, but in my search for things, i spotted this kids book..... Random, but a cool little thing.

 

https://www.amazon.c...=forsalecouk-21

 

https://images-eu.ssl-images-amazon.com/...

 

 

Oh yeah iv come across those, makes me grin that someone out there wrote a childs book around a Mk12 invacar :)

(egg has children right? well now he has a good excuse for getting the mk12, "The kids wanted one after reading the book, honest!"  :mrgreen:

 

things are still going very well on Facebook with Sturart giving me a massive welth of infomation on invalid carriages and Model 70s 

 

its very awesome and im very excited about it all, im also very thankful to stuart for him taking time out of his day to answer all my questions :)

 

I think tomorrow ill do a full write up here on what iv been told :) (Like how prototype Model 70 "P5" had a 400cc industrial engine!)


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