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A question about variable speed limits

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83 replies to this topic

#61 OFFLINE   Lacquer Peel

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Posted 13 July 2018 - 07:38 AM

In Daily Mail land high house prices are a good thing.
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#62 OFFLINE   wuvvum

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Posted 13 July 2018 - 07:39 AM

Eh? What's all this malarkey about? Who would you register it under? What address?
I'm quite distrustful of big brother, are you saying my name and address on the v5 is optional?

Just fill in the trade section of the V5 with some illegible squiggle - that takes it out of the seller's name without putting it into yours.



#63 OFFLINE   Jim Bell

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Posted 13 July 2018 - 07:43 AM

And then dont insure it?

#64 OFFLINE   sierraman

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Posted 13 July 2018 - 07:52 AM

In Daily Mail land high house prices are a good thing.


Or forriners!

#65 OFFLINE   jollysmart

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Posted 13 July 2018 - 07:52 AM

Eh? What's all this malarkey about? Who would you register it under? What address?
I'm quite distrustful of big brother, are you saying my name and address on the v5 is optional?


When you buy a car just tell the seller that you will forward the V5C once you have filled it in to save them the effort, then loose it, simple. I know a few people who have done this and they just park the car round the corner or down the street so it is far enough away from where they live, they don't bother with driving licence, tax or insurance either, all upright citizens.Or just make up a name and address if you feel you have to do it correctly.

Twice I have had police knocking on my door about cars I sold well over 18 months before, one filled up and drove away without paying and the other one had outstanding parking tickets, in excess of 20. In both cases I had sent off the V5 and filled it out correctly.

#66 OFFLINE   New POD

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Posted 13 July 2018 - 08:42 AM

I love smart motorways.
I've been using the same stretches of motorway (M1 between Leeds and M25, M42, M5) for long enough to remember them with and without variable limits and all lane running.

They're better now.

Yes, you may get slowed down to 50mph sometimes. I'd rather carry on a bit slower whilst a phantom "everyone brake for no reason" tailback fizzles out in three miles time, than be doing 70 and get caught up in it. I'd prefer to see cameras on every gantry just to equalise matters and stop the hard braking.

In a decade of smart motorways I can only recall a few times where I've thought "hmmmm, 50mph is a bit random for this time of day" or whatever. It seems pretty helpful and accurate to me.

Red crosses? Should be an instant ban, absolutely no reason to use that lane. The ban should partly be for endangering other road users, and partly for thinking you're somehow more important.

Rectangular speed signs are advisory and can't be enforced, same as the yellow ones. The police could go down the route of driving without due care if you had an accident as a result of ignoring advice though I guess.


In principle they work. But if the Traffic flow doesn't justifya reduced speed limit then who gets retrained.

#67 OFFLINE   Dave_Q

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Posted 13 July 2018 - 09:17 AM

But I think the point is that if they're working properly, you will never see the incident they slowed you down for as you will have been doing 50 or whatever for long enough for it to be dispersed by the time you get there.

Its a computer not a person, maybe you could write to the secretary of state for transport? Do post up the reply.
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#68 OFFLINE   Scruffy Bodger

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Posted 13 July 2018 - 09:41 AM

It's a known problem that the algorithm they are using is wrong and needs changing. A review was ordered months ago as thousands of people have already fallen foul of it.

https://www.telegrap...d-fines-handed/

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#69 OFFLINE   martc

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Posted 13 July 2018 - 12:03 PM

The M62/M18 50 sign has been there for a long time I don't think it is a recent thing,

 

I think the signs were put up 5 or 6 years ago. Bear in mind that that section of the M62 opened in 1974 when Morris Marinas (that paragon of handling and braking) were still being hatched and most people still slid around on cross plies. From 1974 up to sometime in the 2000's it was perfectly safe to use that junction at 70mph. Now that cars and lorries are safer than they have ever been someone has decided to reduce the speed limit to an advisory 50mph; meaning that some of the traffic meanders at 49mph whilst the rest stick to 70. Thus making the junction safer.


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#70 OFFLINE   Hooli

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Posted 13 July 2018 - 12:09 PM

A bit like the M74/A75 junction then, signed 50 for no reason at all. It's easy at 70-80 in a car & I normally accelerate to 100 on the bike to enjoy the bend before dropping back to my normal 80-90 cruise.



#71 OFFLINE   angle

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Posted 13 July 2018 - 12:32 PM

It's a known problem that the algorithm they are using is wrong and needs changing. A review was ordered months ago as thousands of people have already fallen foul of it.

https://www.telegrap...d-fines-handed/


Erm, there's a difference between 'we've been asked to review it' and 'it's definitely wrong and has to be changed'. As far as I know, the main thing to come out of the review so far is a trial on the M3 to use 55mph as the lower limit rather than 50mph to stop bullying by HGVs, which sounds like it might be sensible.

#72 OFFLINE   jollysmart

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Posted 13 July 2018 - 01:08 PM

I think the signs were put up 5 or 6 years ago. Bear in mind that that section of the M62 opened in 1974 when Morris Marinas (that paragon of handling and braking) were still being hatched and most people still slid around on cross plies. From 1974 up to sometime in the 2000's it was perfectly safe to use that junction at 70mph. Now that cars and lorries are safer than they have ever been someone has decided to reduce the speed limit to an advisory 50mph; meaning that some of the traffic meanders at 49mph whilst the rest stick to 70. Thus making the junction safer.


Have I really been using this road for 44 years, I must admit I thought the 50mph sign had been there longer? I don't think the imaginary/ignored speed limit is the worst problem at this junction it is where the link road merges back into the M18, the fast, 50mph, link road lane seems to merge into the slow lane of the M18 in a very odd way with very difficult visibility, I always try to stay in or move into the nearside lane if it isn't blocked by lorries or 49 mph'ers.
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#73 OFFLINE   wuvvum

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Posted 13 July 2018 - 01:19 PM

And then dont insure it?

You can insure it if you want.  As far as I'm aware the checks that the "safety" camera people do only go as far as looking up the registered keeper.



#74 ONLINE   Dead_E23

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Posted 13 July 2018 - 07:14 PM

If they're going to vary the limit on a motorway I reckon every 'smart' sign should have to be lit all the time, showing what the speed limit for its section is.  I've noticed several times where they've had a temporary limit in place and not shown the NSL sign at the end of it, leaving you in some doubt whether you're still in a 40 or 50 limit or back to 70, and having to rely on the absence of repeater signs to confirm it.  

 

I'm on the M25 very frequently, and it often has temporary speed limits where the reason stated on the boards doesn't apply, whether for work that hasn't yet started or for an accident or obstruction that has since been cleared.



#75 OFFLINE   Hooli

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Posted 14 July 2018 - 06:12 AM

I recall similar threads on PH (before I was banned) & someone who worked with these signs said they can only change once every 15mins so it's typical for them to be 'behind the times' as to what is happening.


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#76 OFFLINE   AMC Rebel

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Posted 14 July 2018 - 06:56 AM

I recall similar threads on PH (before I was banned) & someone who worked with these signs said they can only change once every 15mins so it's typical for them to be 'behind the times' as to what is happening.

 I guess it makes sense to have a degree of hysteresis so the things aren't zipping up and down the whole time.

 

As a few others have said, I quite like the idea of smart motorways - but the years of disruption during installation and some of the weird indications leave a lot to be desired.


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#77 OFFLINE   AMC Rebel

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Posted 14 July 2018 - 06:59 AM

In principle they work. But if the Traffic flow doesn't justifya reduced speed limit then who gets retrained.

 

As someone pointed out upthread - they are being used to slow everyone down in some places to try and hit emissions targets, so unlikely anyone will get retrained.   Also as soon as anyone like you or I starts moaning about not being able to go anywhere in a reasonable time we are the candidates for retraining in Nun and Kitten awareness, or my personal favourite - on here (even in the grumpy thread) someone will pop up and opine you have no life if you have time to moan.


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2003 Jaaaag XJ 260K miles and counting

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#78 OFFLINE   rantingYoof

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Posted 14 July 2018 - 07:38 AM

On the way back from Brum airport with Supernaut (on the M42, heading south), we actually witnessed a sign change!

 

From 60mph to 40mph.

 

About five seconds before I was due to go through the speed camera trap (lines on the floor).

 

Cue abrupt retardation without really a meaningful glance in the mirror...the dashcam would have caught it changing anyway so if I'd been rearended at least I could prove I wasn't being a brake-testing dick.


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#79 OFFLINE   Pillock

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Posted 14 July 2018 - 08:37 AM

I think there's a 2 minute delay before the speed cameras take the new limit, BUT obvs that's never been officially communicated and just came as heresay from a similar thread to this.

#80 OFFLINE   Nicola H

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Posted 14 July 2018 - 12:00 PM

Shortly, the only bits of the M1 between East Mids airport and where it joins the A1M north of Leeds that will not be 'smart' with the requisite number of cash genetators installed, will be J35A to J39 (Barnsley) and beyond J42 (Leeds). So either nobody cares a fuck about air quality in these two areas or as Leeds is implementing a LEZ, the motorways have fuck all effect on it.

 both of which are genuinely  rural  areas,  once  you are  beyond J36  the M1 has open countryside to one or both sides  until  J39  when you  start to get Wakefield on the east and then horbury / ossett etc on the  west ... 

J42 is where the M1 swerves away to the East to join the A1  the original M1 turning into the eastern half of the M621 



#81 OFFLINE   martc

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Posted 14 July 2018 - 06:34 PM

I think there's a 2 minute delay before the speed cameras take the new limit, BUT obvs that's never been officially communicated and just came as heresay from a similar thread to this.

 

As I said above, if only there was a book, or 'code', were it was made clear how these things work...


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#82 OFFLINE   Pillock

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Posted 14 July 2018 - 06:57 PM

But then they have to keep it updated, it becomes yet another thing to have version control on and look at each time they make a change. The driver only needs to know the rules of "don't drive at a faster speed than the sign is showing".

Surrey Police have apparently confirmed there's a 2 minute buffer between the limit changing and the cameras enforcing it. But even if you didn't know this, you wouldn't be disadvantaged as long as you react to the signs.

You lose sight of the signs a couple of seconds before you get to the camera trigger zone anyway so you'll always have enough time to react.

#83 OFFLINE   NorfolkNWeigh

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Posted 14 July 2018 - 07:16 PM

Eh? What's all this malarkey about? Who would you register it under? What address?
I'm quite distrustful of big brother, are you saying my name and address on the v5 is optional?

I might have known and worked for someone that registered all his cars ( and helicopter and probably yacht) in the Isle of Man. The cars had I.O.M personal or at least old numbers and as the cars had never been there, the plates looked like UK ones- but they didn't come up on Police, DVLA, TFL or anything. They had little paper tax discs that satisfied a copper on the one occaision he was actually pulled one over when the plate couldn't be read by his ANPR.
It's very weird not worrying about cameras, but great in That London stopping on redlines, driving in Oxford St etc, on many occaisions I'd slow down in an average speed section and he'd look up remind me we were' invisible'
Unfortunately he was equally hung-ho with regard to saftey when flying ...

#84 OFFLINE   Kringle

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Posted 15 July 2018 - 08:52 AM

Unfortunately he was equally hung-ho with regard to saftey when flying ... RIP


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