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A question about variable speed limits

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#1 OFFLINE   New POD

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Posted 12 July 2018 - 05:55 AM

Who is responsible and accountable for the training and decision making of the person who made the decision yesterday to set all the speed limit signs on the M1 (between Leeds And Nottingham) to 60 mph.

Traffic was very moderate. Not empty but no reason why 70 should not have been the limit.

I should like the contact details perhaps name and address of their boss, so I can make a complaint.

grrrrrrrrrrrrrr
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#2 OFFLINE   pilninggas

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Posted 12 July 2018 - 06:19 AM

Dont smart motorways make the decisions autonomously - human intervention only occurs when there is an incident. That's my understanding.

 

The sensors are constantly monitoring flow rates and deltas and reduce the speed limits to maintain steady flow.

 

I go through a variable/smart everyday and I agree it often seems quite conservative in terms of limits being activated for moderate traffic but it does seem to work.


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#3 OFFLINE   NorfolkNWeigh

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Posted 12 July 2018 - 06:26 AM

Since attending a " Motorway Awareness " course a couple of weeks ago , I am fully trained and up to date on Smart* motorways.
And can categorically tell you that according to the absolute bullshit spouted therein, that this would be because of a situation up to 10 miles away, that the sophisticated sensors embedded in the road surface (!?) had detected and an intelligent computer had automatically activated the limit.

The crap these people came out with was astounding.
Apparentlly these sensors can detect individual cars accelerating or braking too harshly and that causes delays for everyone. Also it's impossible for the signs to make mistakes, so the alternate use/ don't use the hard shoulder instructions over a 5 mile section that often occurs on the M1 South near Luton is a figment of my imagination, as is the different limits in different lanes thing I've seen many times.

When asked how this 10 miles ahead thing works when there are 6 junctions in that 10 miles, the lecturer actually said to me" Sorry, I'm not answering any more of your disruptive questions, some people here want to learn something and you're wasting their time" !!
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#4 OFFLINE   sierraman

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Posted 12 July 2018 - 06:34 AM

This is why we need to stop this self driving car shit right now.

I don't get on these smart motorways why you can see people sailing past at 80-90. Surely they must be picking up tickets? Or did I just imagine this?

#5 OFFLINE   Skizzer

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Posted 12 July 2018 - 06:40 AM

At least it wasn’t as smart* as the M4 past Newport, which took the variable (enforced) limit in flowing traffic from 50 down to 20 in the space of about 200 yards a few months ago, with predictable results.
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#6 ONLINE   SiC

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Posted 12 July 2018 - 06:41 AM

I don't get on these smart motorways why you can see people sailing past at 80-90. Surely they must be picking up tickets? Or did I just imagine this?


Yup they are.
Have you been caught by the M5 speed camera that has nabbed 27,000 speeding drivers?

A motorway speed camera on the M5 has caught thousands of motorists and racked in more than £2million in fines.

The variable speed limit camera between junction 16 and 17 near Bristol is one of the most active in the country.


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#7 OFFLINE   sierraman

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Posted 12 July 2018 - 06:52 AM

I spend a fair amount of time on the motorways at the moment, you see them sailing through these cameras for miles, if you went through 4 you would be banned. A lot of the cars were fairly expensive new stuff, probably people who couldn't afford a ban.
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#8 OFFLINE   lesapandre

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Posted 12 July 2018 - 06:58 AM

Moral: Never drive on a Motorway which is smarter than you are...


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#9 OFFLINE   lesapandre

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Posted 12 July 2018 - 06:58 AM

Or funny plates...



#10 OFFLINE   NorfolkNWeigh

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Posted 12 July 2018 - 07:10 AM

I spend far too much of my life on these things , so know where the cameras are. On the stretch of the M1 from the M25 to J13 for example there are only 3 , so I'm one of those people going past at slightly elevated speeds.
This cockiness was recently rewarded when I was flashed by the one just before J11at 67 in a 60, purely down to my own iinnatention ( I was on the phone- hands free).
An interesting development I've only noticed recently, is that they can set them to zero when the lane is closed with red crosses. A few nights ago I was sitting in lane 1 in a queue, the other 2 were closed and every car,van and lorry that went sailing through got flashed.
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#11 OFFLINE   rantingYoof

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Posted 12 July 2018 - 07:26 AM

Next month the work begins on Junctions 13 to 16!

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#12 ONLINE   catsinthewelder

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Posted 12 July 2018 - 07:41 AM

It's irritating when they do that but at least it was consultant. What drives me spare is when they put a random 40mph restriction in that you need to brake for to be doing 40 when you pass under the cameras.
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#13 ONLINE   DodgeRover

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Posted 12 July 2018 - 07:49 AM

I would imagine a challenge will happen in court soon as it did on the M25 years ago, with a dash cam recording showing varying eg 50, 60, 30 speed limits with nothing else on the road it should be winnable.

#14 OFFLINE   busmansholiday

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Posted 12 July 2018 - 07:54 AM

Who is responsible and accountable for the training and decision making of the person who made the decision yesterday to set all the speed limit signs on the M1 (between Leeds And Nottingham) to 60 mph.

Traffic was very moderate. Not empty but no reason why 70 should not have been the limit.

I should like the contact details perhaps name and address of their boss, so I can make a complaint.

grrrrrrrrrrrrrr


Quite normal that, seems to be done to piss people off in the hope they'll not know where the cameras are, get nicked and increase their Xmas bonus....

#15 ONLINE   angle

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Posted 12 July 2018 - 08:10 AM

sophisticated sensors embedded in the road surface


Err, big loops of wire.

At the risk of having some virtual eggs lobbed in my direction, doing this on the M42 was my university dissertation. We could get close to 100% accuracy in flagging up accidents or whatever if you had them 100m apart, but only about 90% at 500m spacings, which was much more common then. That was 12 years ago, mind.
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#16 OFFLINE   chaseracer

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Posted 12 July 2018 - 08:25 AM

...the lecturer actually said to me" Sorry, I'm not answering any more of your disruptive questions, some people here want to learn something and you're wasting their time" !!

 

Are we related?

 

:lol:


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#17 OFFLINE   New POD

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Posted 12 July 2018 - 08:44 AM

Err, big loops of wire.

At the risk of having some virtual eggs lobbed in my direction, doing this on the M42 was my university dissertation. We could get close to 100% accuracy in flagging up accidents or whatever if you had them 100m apart, but only about 90% at 500m spacings, which was much more common then. That was 12 years ago, mind.


WOULD they not be better asking Google what the Traffic density and speeds are.

I've taken to using Google maps as my default sat nav and it knows how fast everyone with an android phone is going..

If it is automatic and uses sensors then they must be maladjusted on the M1
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#18 OFFLINE   sierraman

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Posted 12 July 2018 - 08:52 AM

It messes all the lane discipline up though, everyone is terrified to exceed 70mph so you can't use a few horses to get past someone at say 80-85. It pisses truckers off because cars are forced to sit at 50mph. None of this matters however because its positioned that doing this will stop all those folks in London choking to death according to the Daily Mail.

#19 ONLINE   SiC

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Posted 12 July 2018 - 09:12 AM

WOULD they not be better asking Google what the Traffic density and speeds are.

I've taken to using Google maps as my default sat nav and it knows how fast everyone with an android phone is going..

If it is automatic and uses sensors then they must be maladjusted on the M1


Not really, as Google collates a traffic conditions from many sources. From tracking on your phone and what is reported back from the Highways Agency.
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#20 ONLINE   SiC

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Posted 12 July 2018 - 09:15 AM

Err, big loops of wire.

At the risk of having some virtual eggs lobbed in my direction, doing this on the M42 was my university dissertation. We could get close to 100% accuracy in flagging up accidents or whatever if you had them 100m apart, but only about 90% at 500m spacings, which was much more common then. That was 12 years ago, mind.


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#21 OFFLINE   DSdriver

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Posted 12 July 2018 - 09:35 AM

Years ago I used to have a thing on my dash that warned of traffic congestion ahead on motorways and some a roads. It worked off sensors on the bridges which counted the number of cars passing under. It was useless on roads where there were no bridges for miles.

Trafficmaster or trafficmate?


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#22 ONLINE   angle

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Posted 12 July 2018 - 09:41 AM

Not really, as Google collates a traffic conditions from many sources. From tracking on your phone and what is reported back from the Highways Agency.

Because Google is collecting and processing data on journey times every day, its really good at predicting it under normal conditions - TfL are starting to use historic phone data to develop traffic models rather than going out and doing loads of surveys, for example.

But, because it needs enough data points to be able to average them out and anonymise them, it's (relatively) slow at flagging up things that are out of the ordinary - it can take 5-10 minutes for it to realise there might have been an accident or something. The benefit of the sensors is that they record everyone and there's no privacy issues, so they can respond much faster.

There's also the issue that Google are a corporate leviathan and therefore charge stupid amounts of money for access to their data - I now work for a massive engineering consultancy and its only in the last month or so we've paid for access to it because we could never justify the expense before...
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#23 OFFLINE   egg

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Posted 12 July 2018 - 09:46 AM

It pisses truckers off because cars are forced to sit at 50mph. 

 

This. I'm far too much of a rule follower, so if I'm doing the 50, all I get is a big truck one inch off my bumper. Very unsafe.


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#24 OFFLINE   captain_70s

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Posted 12 July 2018 - 09:47 AM

A motorway speed camera on the M5 has caught thousands of motorists and racked in more than £2million in fines.


The variable speed limit camera between junction 16 and 17 near Bristol is one of the most active in the country.

 

There's your answer!


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#25 OFFLINE   NorfolkNWeigh

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Posted 12 July 2018 - 10:02 AM

Years ago I used to have a thing on my dash that warned of traffic congestion ahead on motorways and some a roads. It worked off sensors on the bridges which counted the number of cars passing under. It was useless on roads where there were no bridges for miles.
Trafficmaster or trafficmate?

Trafficmaster. They were (are?) based in Milton Keynes, they were even factory fitted in Vectras and Omegas at one point.
As you say they had a system of yellow cameras on bridges on motorways and major routes. I think gps technology overtook them. Their big fancy HQ building they had built in the mid 90's in Cranfield is broken up into smaller units now and the Trafficmaster sign dissapeared a few years ago.
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#26 OFFLINE   clayts450

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Posted 12 July 2018 - 10:27 AM

MG Rover used TrafficMaster in their final years. The TrafficMaster system was switched off in June 2012.


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#27 OFFLINE   jollysmart

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Posted 12 July 2018 - 10:56 AM

I spend a fair amount of time on the motorways at the moment, you see them sailing through these cameras for miles, if you went through 4 you would be banned. A lot of the cars were fairly expensive new stuff, probably people who couldn't afford a ban.


I seem to remember that there is a defence for this as it can be classed as one incident much like the normal cameras when they are close together. Given that there are many people with over 12 points, and the max is close to 50 it isn't worth the worry.
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#28 OFFLINE   wuvvum

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Posted 12 July 2018 - 11:10 AM

The answer to all these types of questions is simply to not register your car in your name.  It's a system that relies on people's honesty to catch them breaking the law, which is so absurd it's actually quite funny when you think about it.


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#29 OFFLINE   martc

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Posted 12 July 2018 - 11:28 AM

I spend a fair amount of time on the motorways at the moment, you see them sailing through these cameras for miles, if you went through 4 you would be banned. A lot of the cars were fairly expensive new stuff, probably people who couldn't afford a ban.

 

I believe* that the smart cameras (the grey ones in the gantries) are only turned on if the speed limit signs are lit, showing a limit <70mph. The yellow cameras at the side of the road are on all the time.

 

Someone I know personally may have attended a speed awareness course and asked the instructor the very same question. In this case regarding the 100's of people exceeding 70 on the smart section of the M1 near Nottingham and whether the Nottinghamshire awareness courses were fully booked for months. He didn't answer ,sorry, my friend commented that by his silence he was 'saying' that the cameras were switched off. He remained silent but glared at me, sorry, him.

 

Incidentally, what has happened to all the grey cameras in the gantries above the M1 around Nottingham? They were all missing the last time I went down there.


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#30 OFFLINE   Asimo

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Posted 12 July 2018 - 11:34 AM

In countries where large numbers of people have guns, speed cameras are unknown.
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