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Ford Fusion semi auto stuck in gear- repair?


Lankytim

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Can you manually wind the rack from one limit of its travel to the other? If you can, either:

Move it to one extreme, select the gear to match at the stick (i reckon you should be able to figure out which extreme is which 1 or R), then connect the box and selector back up again.

Or

Move it to the middle of its travel, select N on the stick, then connect the box and selector back up again.

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I’m in Stoke on Trent, I have indeed buggered up the motor positions when I took the motor off to inspect the rack. I expected it to be seized but it wasn’t so spun the motor around to see if it was seized, it was a bit stiff at first but obviously doing that caused it to lose all sense of what gear it’s supposed to be in. When I put it back together I made sure it was in neutral but after a second or so the gear indicator on the dash when blank, it won’t turn over now either.

 

 

Can you electrically connect the actuator/motors unit to the car but not any of the mechanicals, not bolt it to the gearbox? You may need an additional lead for an earth to the motor case.   If you turn the ignition on the actuators/motors will move to select the position "N" which should then be displayed on the dash gear display.   If you can get this to happen then next physically move the gearbox selectors to get the gearbox in natural - offer up the actuators/motors unit and see if they mechanical actuating bits on the actuator and the gearbox are aligned, if not then measure the discrepancy and pull the gear out of the rack/pinion, it should just slide out, and reset the rack to the correct potion and slide the gear back.  This should then set the actuator/motors and the gearbox in natural and all the mechanical linkages should align. i would still look at the pressed in blind thin walled plastic bearing which is the end of the rack for internal damage.  I can lend you the correct sized reamer to remove the damage.

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That’s all worth a shot, I’m at work today but hopefully will be finished quite early so will get stuck in. I might leave the motor disconnected from the rack so it can whizz round and find neutral without getting to the end of the racks travel.

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No joy with the suggestions, although I did find the engine would start and run with the starter solenoid bridged out, no EML apart from the gearbox one which can be binned off. Should make a manual conversion much easier if there’s no ECUs to swap over. I’ve spotted a suitable Fiesta donor on eBay for £100 but it’s down in Kettering.

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What are these like to drive? Mrs_nuts has a 54-plate 1.4 fiesta and it is amazingly gutless. I don’t expect a neck-snapping 50-70 blast but this thing is SRSLY as flat as the proverbial witch’s. If you accelerate with the aircon on, it feels like back in the day when you used to have your timing very badly set giving a slightly better acceleration at 50% throttle than 100%, 100% making a sort of strange low-pitched droning noise and causing a general feeling of severely reduced respiratory capacity to surround the car. There’s no warning lights on, it starts on the button and runs as smooth as you like. Maybe its just lame, but if it is, I dread to think what the 1.25 must be like. Also the centre console permanently jabs me in the knee which drives me crackers. Overall not great.

 

I like the look of the fusion though, it looks like a useful size but still with fiesta-level economy which must be pretty decent. Plus its one of those ‘what were they thinking’ cars like the Signum which play a strong shite game.

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How about a masterclass article on semi auto gearboxes, how they work, and how to fix them? There must be plenty of cars around with faulty gearboxes that are for sale at a low price due to gearbox faults. Those of us who are handy with tools and can fix such automotive faults would then have access to many a low priced motor. Just a thought.

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That's a really good idea, a section on autoshite where you write a 'how to' article. So many times you get a question about how to do something it could be useful.

 

Ah, but you forget this is AutoShite and "sections" don't happen because a vocal minority have a massive bellyache if anything is changed/moved/created. You'll still get the question asked so many times anyway as it's the law and usually starting with the statements "I've looked but..." or "I know it's been asked before, but..."

 

I agree it's good idea, but really? Have you thought it through? Think of the consequences man! :)

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I recently had the privilege* of driving SIL's motability Berlingo with the robotic gearbox. I was shocked by how badly it manages the job of changing gear. It was marginally better when I deigned to use the flappy paddles, but overall Mrs CW's vomit coloured Corsa auto does this proceeding thing so much better, that I can't help thinking that, technologically, the robotic auto will soon be consigned to the waste bin of history. But in considerable numbers. So yes, I believe skilling up on these would be a very smart move for those that can make a few groats by turning scrap motors back into the automotive equivalent of a tartan Thermos ( Justin Case) for the hard of driving...

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No joy with the suggestions, although I did find the engine would start and run with the starter solenoid bridged out, no EML apart from the gearbox one which can be binned off. Should make a manual conversion much easier if there’s no ECUs to swap over. I’ve spotted a suitable Fiesta donor on eBay for £100 but it’s down in Kettering.

 

Yer engine management computer controls the throttle, clutch and gearchange,  It's "fly by wire" so you stick your right foot down and this just send a voltage somewhere then the management operate the clutch, put it in gear and do a engine speed/clutch slip to get you moving. With your right foot down and getting faster so changing  up from 1 to 2 the management operates the throttle/clutch/gear change as someone in a normal car would irrespective of going up hill or down hill it works out the response to the situation. If you stick in a manual change/clutch pedal you may find that you can start the engine but you may need to have a plan to fool the management.  If i pay for a courier £6 ish  would you send me the old actuator to diagnose if it has a fault, or even sell me the complete car for £80?

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How about a masterclass article on semi auto gearboxes, how they work, and how to fix them? There must be plenty of cars around with faulty gearboxes that are for sale at a low price due to gearbox faults. Those of us who are handy with tools and can fix such automotive faults would then have access to many a low priced motor. Just a thought.

The problem is that they're all different. However most of these boxes around this age are similar idea. They are based on a manual gearbox. Because of this, they're limited to electrical actuators. One set of actuators for the gearshifting, another for the clutch. Gearshifting actuators literally move the linkages to netural and gear positions. Some use cables to a remote actuator, while others (Smart fortwo for instance) have a pair of motors bolted on the side of the box.

 

Most modern boxes that are designed for robotic auto (e.g. DSG) tend to be more hydraulic based instead. With limited number of motors for actuation.

 

As the position of the gears doesn't change a lot, this usually doesn't need adjustment. Most of the systems I've seen know when it's in netural and then will drive the motors in a set position for each gear. It knows when the limit has been hit as the current will increase. If these positions changed significantly, it can become confused. Hence telling the gearbox computer to readaptate is important. They don't normally do it themselves and need a diagnostic tool to trigger it.

 

If you remove the actuator and don't touch it or let it move, you have a fair chance of putting it back without trouble. Especially as it doesn't have to be exactly placed.

 

Clutch actuation is a bit more tricky as it essentially has 3 states. Fully disengaged, fully engaged and bite point. The bite point is the tricky bit (as any learner driver will tell you). This moves over time and has to be pretty exact. It also has to guess what a human is intending to do. Hence why you can end up confusing them. Most notably when coming up to a roundabout, slow down, see a gap and go. However slowing down the car expects to stop and go into netural. If it's cycling in that position when you want to go again (i.e. see a gap) and you floor it, you'll have to wait till it can cycle back into a drive position. Some are quicker and better than others. Something even DSG will suffer from too.

 

The Smart Roadster (basically a fortwo) I had will literally do nothing and give you nothing until it works itself around again to 1st gear. Then it'll give you smooth takeoff from that. My DSG TT, on sudden demand, will essentially stop the disengagement and drop the clutch quickly to give you drive again. Disadvantage of doing this is it'll jerk harshly. Compromise they would have made for drivability.

 

Some systems will adapt with changing bite point as the clutch wears. Others don't. I know my Smart Roadster doesn't. Dealers are supposed to reset at every service. Because it's out of the dealer network, most don't get it done. This leads to the expected bite point being wrong and gives the harsh driving experience that people moan about on the Smarts. When the clutch was readaptated it changed lovely and smoothly (for a robo-auto).

 

Taking off from stationary is the hardest part for these boxes. It can't engage the clutch too harshly or quickly as it's uncomfortable for the operator. However it can't do too much clutch slip as it'll wear the clutch quickly. Most small cars err on the side of more slippage for comfort. Also makes them slow off the line.

 

As these clutch actuators need to be more exact, they have position encoders (wheels with holes that count the light being shut off/let through) to track positioning. They also often actuate themselves to the end stops on startup to figure where they are (hence needing to start in neutral). The biggest problem is when you're removing them is that unless you get it exactly in the same spot (within fractions of mm), the bite point will change. Thus best case it's a jerky take off. Worse case it's out expected range and throw a warning light.

 

Often when these systems are out of range, it refuses to select any gear out of safety. Hence why many people find that when a fault is thrown, they're dead and stuck. Slush autos on the other hand will limp in a highish gear if faulty. Hence why semi autos get a bad reputation when they FTP.

 

The biggest trouble these semi autos seem to have is the actuators sticking, siezing up or breaking bits internally. As they have to be particularly accurate in their positioning, when they do get to the limits of what it considers normal, they throw a wobbly. See above where wobbly means no movement.

 

Most of the actuators can easily be fixed. Dealers don't bother and just replace the whole actuator as it's easier and guarantee fault fixed but that's expensive. Once the actuator is replaced, you need a diagnostic tool on most cars to tell it to realign itself again. This usually requires a fairly advanced tool - either dealer or Snapon/Delphi DS150e/etc. Most independent shops don't have one that can do it or know how to use it. Again adding to the bad reputation of these systems.

 

TL;DR, These gearboxes aren't that complex. Just require a very small background knowledge on what they're doing. Many of the actuator problems on these boxes can be fixed by looking on YouTube. Then a decent (ideally dealer level) diagnostic tool to tell it to realign itself.

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The problem is these things are reactive, not proactive....it cant see what the road ahead is like and cant predict what you are about to do, it can only respond to what is currently happening with engine speed/load, throttle position and brakes...as such its always playing catchup. A standard auto box is the same, but its smooth and rapid changes make it a lot less noticeable that a robotic manual which changes slower and more harshly.

My old C2 VTR suffered from all these problems - Mainly when approaching a roundabout it could never decide if it should be in second and slip the clutch for a smooth pull away or drop to first for better acceleration; It invariably chose the wrong option and you would see a gap and go for it; the box would decide to pull in second with enough clutch slip to be smooth but leaving you with a 4x4 approaching rapidly so you would instinctively press the gas harder and the box would think "oopsie, shoulda been in first" so it changes down leaving you rolling with no drive for a fraction of a second so by now you have the gas mashed to the carpet so it would realise you want speed and pop the clutch leaving you rocketing forwards with the wheels spinning.

 

The thing is...I think these systems are designed for oblivious teenagers and pretty blonde ladies with big sunglasses who want a zippy car with i-telephone connectivity and sporty seats...The C2 definitely was, and the target market likely found it to be an easy car to drive moderately fast and they can tell their friends how they have "flappy paddles like on Top Gear" but anyone who cares about their roadcraft will find them a bit irritating. You learn to drive around its foibles and accomodate the delay between a control input and it deciding what to do, but it is never ideal. I would like to try a system in a "proper" sports car that has twin clutches etc as a comparison...I would bet its a world of difference to what is a standard Citroen manual gearbox with a few windscreenwiper motors doing the pushing and pulling of selectors controlled by electronics ripped from a Speak n Spell.

 

While the Lexia diagnostic system (its chinese knock-off in my case) gave full access to all calibrations etc, you could reprogram the clutch bite point yourself iirc by shifting between first and neutral ten times at a standstill.

 

I certainly wont discount them in the future. Mine shat out and wouldnt restart when it was in for body repairs after a shunt which turned out to be the clutch motor had failed and since it couldnt de-clutch it refused to start the engine. I was vexxed at first, but a little research shows that they are relatively simple systems and I quickly learned about it. Like Lankytim I found that the engine could still be started by shunting the starter solenoid and a new clutch motor solved the problem right away in my case. With the old one apart it was obviously designed with a limited lifespan in mind using a mixture of metal and plastic gears, the latter of which had stripped its teeth.

 

I had the chance to buy it back a few weeks ago and was very tempted indeed.

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I've got to be honest, I've known this car for years and always thought the gear change was pretty sweet. If it starts to get confused you can just operate it in "tip tronic" mode using the gear lever to knock it up or down a gear, a bit like OUTRUN at the arcade. It's got to 90k before shitting itself so I guess that's not bad going. Apparently these are better on fuel and easier on the clutch as the computer can make better changes than a human, I know that's at odds with most peoples experiences here but I can say it's never had a clutch in all these years. 

 

BOLLOX, I've always found this Fusion to be a pretty nippy little thing, no complaints in that department, Nice and roomy inside too. 

 

I'm picking this thing up on Friday to bum for it's gear linkage, pedal box and other needed bits. It's likely to get baled pretty quickly so if you need any bits for Mrs sack's Fizzy LMK.

 

s-l1600.jpg

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Yer engine management computer controls the throttle, clutch and gearchange,  It's "fly by wire" so you stick your right foot down and this just send a voltage somewhere then the management operate the clutch, put it in gear and do a engine speed/clutch slip to get you moving. With your right foot down and getting faster so changing  up from 1 to 2 the management operates the throttle/clutch/gear change as someone in a normal car would irrespective of going up hill or down hill it works out the response to the situation. If you stick in a manual change/clutch pedal you may find that you can start the engine but you may need to have a plan to fool the management.  If i pay for a courier £6 ish  would you send me the old actuator to diagnose if it has a fault, or even sell me the complete car for £80?

 

 

I was going to just take the motors off and stick them in the scrap motor pile but if you want the thing for the cost of postage let me know. Hopefully I won't be selling the Fusion just yet!

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Picked the donor Fiesta yesterday, removed the manual parts, so the gear linkages, gear stick, pedal box and clutch pipes, then dropped the engine out and weighed it in this morning. It's worked out as a "free car" with the money from scrapping it, plus i've got a nice set of alloys with 3 new tyres and a complete engine and box I can use for parts or sell on. I'll hopefully have chance to add some of these parts to the Fusion tomorrow. Someone bought the headlights for their ST Focus too for some extra beer token action, except the wife someone managed to talk me into spending it at a shitty Church fete. 

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Nearly forgot a pez station shot!

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I can't imagine that anywhere else in the world is anyone weighing in Fiestas to save Fusions, so well played.

 

Was the Fusion Ford's answer to the Honda Jazz? My wife has just got one of those and whilst its a few notches short of thrilling to drive, I'm genuinely impressed by how much boot and interior space is in there.

 

I imagine the fusion is similar?

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I managed to have a crack at this yesterday. I started with the parts that I thought may be the most problematic, in this case swapping the gear linkages on the gearbox to accept the gearstick cables, fortunately all the threaded holes in the gearbox casing are there ready for parts to be removed and swapped over. I also removed the clutch actuator and added the pipework for the clutch master cylinder, the clips to hold the pipework are there but not used on the auto version. A blank was removed from the bulkhead for the master cylinder to pass through, so after swapping the pedal boxes it should all be ready to go.

 

The centre console was removed along with the auto gearstick selector, there's also a rubber blank in the tunnel that needs to come out before the manual stick and cables can be added and connected up to the gearbox. 

 

Interestingly, the car immobilized itself when I tried to start it with the clutch actuator ECU unplugged  , with it connected back up it started, revved and ran normally, so that's something that will have to go back on unless I choose to swap all the ECUs and stuff over, which I probably wont tbh.

 

MOAR TO FOLLOW.

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Woke up late and only had a couple of hours before I had to pick the kids up from school (the joys of working 4 on 4 off nights!). The pedal box has been fitted and the clutch pipes connected up, hopefully after bleeding we'll have decent clutch operation.

 

The gear cables didn't want to go through the hole in the bodywork due to the heat shield above the exhaust blocking their way- I had a similar issue removing them on the donor fiesta. As the mounting holes in the metal shield had corroded away and it was half way to falling off anyway I removed and binned it and the cables passed easily through the hole in the bulkhead, over the gearbox and are now dangling next to their corresponding gearbox selectors. 

 

So, at the end of play today the auto Fusion now has a manual gear stick and a clutch pedal- not that they do anything, yet. 

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I reckon you're going to end up having to change ECUs and stuff, what;s it going to do about the throttle? As you are, it cuts the throttle on gearchange and all that. Won't it just try and cut throttle every time it thinks it should be changing gear?

 

 

For an idea of what these sods are like, without knowing I knocked the brake light switch off the bracket of the mrs's 500 auto while we were driving along (it's in the passenger footwell!)  We ended up with the car refusing to change up gear, and flashing "TRANSMISSION FAILURE" until we pulled over where it locked itself in reverse and wouldn't crank over or disengage reverse gear so we could get it on a truck. We thought it was a total gearbox failure!

 

The bastard thing then bump started itself as it was being dragged back off the recovery truck!

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It starts and revs while stationary, I was wondering about it cutting the throttle while driving as it tries to change gear but the dashboard is showing the yellow gear symbol indicating a fault with the auto gear change somewhere (in this case it's half missing), so hopefully it won't do anything at all. A bit of googling reveals someone else has done this exact conversion and didnt have any issues, apart from having to wire a starter switch to the solenoid to get it to start in the first place.  

 

I guess I'll find out soon enough what will happen. Hopefully tomorrow!

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UPDATE.

 

After literally 20 mins of reassembly the centre console was back in around the new manual gearstick and the gear cables were connected to the gearbox- the wife also helped me bleed the clutch up. I haven't devised a way of fooling the car into starting on the key so the only way to start it at the minute is to use a nail bent into a horseshoe shape to bridge out the starter solenoid...

 

....nothing...

 

The battery was flat! Unfortunately I lost my jump leads a few months ago (the best jump leads in the world, long and so thick they were unmeltable!) so I had to go and buy a set especially for this job. A set of crappy RING jump leads were purchased and found the be surprisingly good. The Fusion burst into life.. but would it drive?

 

Yep! The little Ford drives totally normally, lovely light clutch and gearchange, the main problem i'm getting now is one of the gear cables keeps popping off meaning I lose reverse and some of the forward gears. Its the big round one, i'm not sure why it keeps falling off, maybe it needs adjusting a bit, or a clip is missing or something. I'll need to investigate further.

 

I spent 5 mins taking the instrument binnacle apart and removing the LED light for the transmission ECU so there's no yellow lights showing.

 

The next step (apart from stopping the gear linkage from popping off) is to devise a way of starting the engine. The transmission ECU won't let the engine start from the key so I can either have a push button on the dash somewhere that feeds the starter solenoid directly or find the relay that operates the solenoid and run a switched live to that, maybe from the key as Henry Ford intended. I'll have to do a little digging to see what the most sensible way forward is. 

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You can get a Ford push button start that's exactly the same size as a cig lighter socket, MK2 Focuses used them on top spec cars.

 

Does the ignition still have a sprung "start" position? A wire from there to the solenoid bypassing all the ECU bollocks ought to do it.

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