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Long* running landy 88" project - gearbox woes

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47 replies to this topic

#31 ONLINE   Hooli

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Posted 12 July 2018 - 08:53 PM

Land Rovers are a hobby that occasionally function as transport.


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#32 OFFLINE   jakebullet

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Posted 18 July 2018 - 09:13 PM

Well the gearbox is still broken, so why not work on the brakes instead?

 

Problem #1, one of the master cylinder outputs is the wrong size (7/16"). So I bought an adaptor:

 

20180711_183234.jpg

 

Adaptor is rubbish. It's too long with no chance of sealing. Fortunately it's flat ended so I stuck it in the lathe and shortened it a bit. Added a suitable copper washer and success it doesn't leak under pressure when I blank off the output.

 

20180711_192926.jpg

 

I love the blue of britpart in the morning. Feels like mingebag twattery. Going for dephi for the cylinders in the hope they're slightly better quality.

 

20180718_174328.jpg

 

Things don't look too bad in the drum for 10 years standing:

 

20180718_184337.jpg

 

Cylinders are still free but I think it's a smart move to change them:

 

20180718_185243.jpg

 

Shiny new kunifer pipe with brass ends made.

 

20180718_193238.jpg

 

Total bastard to fit. Why they put everything in the same small space I don't know. More boring plumbing when I can be bothered to do it.


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#33 OFFLINE   jakebullet

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Posted 19 July 2018 - 08:36 PM

Delivery from amazon. Wowsers it's an endoscope thing, that'll be useful for working out what's wrong with the gearbox!

 

WRONG!

 

It's gr11 for faking footage of visiting Titanic's boiler room.

20180719182344.jpg

 

All that's obvious is it's been run for chuff knows how long with no oil in it. I think I'm going to have to change it, unless I try filling it with oil in the hope of it magically freeing up whatever is making it be in a gear when a gear isn't selected. Yes, I realise that makes no sense, but desperation you know....

 

Am I right in thinking that you can split the transfer box off in situ, and thus make it two moderately heavy assemblies instead of one massively heavy one?

 

Any other suggestions besides gas axe and put bits on ebay?


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#34 OFFLINE   Geep

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Posted 19 July 2018 - 08:53 PM

Can you not remove/loosen the selectors and manually slide the synchros in to the neutral position through the top cover? They only slide back or forward to select gear so making sure they are in the middle, ie no gear selected, should then let you check the output shaft doesn't move. 

 

Not sure of layout on the box you have but could one of the selector forks be loose or damaged meaning selector shaft moves but fork doesn't? 



#35 OFFLINE   Geep

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Posted 19 July 2018 - 09:01 PM

land-rover-series-3-gearbox-selectors.jp

 

Installing the selector shafts and forks. Thos bolts holding the forks to the shafts have to be torqued up surprisingly tight (it’s in the manual). I didn’t do this, and one of the shafts slid slightly against the fork, so I had to pull the top of the box apart to re tighten them

 

From here: http://www.geoffslan...x-assembly.html

 

Not sure if same or helps but gives an idea how loose forks on selector rod can cause problems. 



#36 OFFLINE   jakebullet

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Posted 19 July 2018 - 09:09 PM

Unfortunately it isn't the selectors. They're all tight on the shafts and in the neutral position but there's still drive. The only 'clue' is 3rd / 4th selector doesn't want to go fully into 4th position.


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#37 OFFLINE   Geep

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Posted 19 July 2018 - 09:28 PM

Unfortunately it isn't the selectors. They're all tight on the shafts and in the neutral position but there's still drive. The only 'clue' is 3rd / 4th selector doesn't want to go fully into 4th position.

 Can you loosen 3rd/4th selector and manually slide the selector fork back and forth to see if it will engage/disengage? 

 

I can't see why a synchro would suddenly seize up when testing at low speeds. It must be a selection issue of some sort. They only slide over detent plungers and springs which can't come out unless synchro is removed. I would try moving all selectors in turn fully back and forward so you can positively engage the centre (neutral) on each one and make sure reverse idler isn't engaged. 

 

That the box still rotates means no serious issue with lack of oil though is that a gear tooth showing on the camera pic? Can you get a magnet in and fish it out?

 

Just to add, you might have to rotate gears slightly to engage all gears. Bit of rotation if it feels it won't go in and it should click in. (and to add link)

 

Gearbox Cutaway Photos

 

http://www.series2cl...al/gearbox.html

 

Might help.


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#38 OFFLINE   jakebullet

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Posted 19 July 2018 - 09:53 PM

I think it's just crap in the bottom of the case rather than a tooth, but I'll try and get it out to check. The cutaway photos are good, if I can suss what gear it's in it's a start. Thanks!


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#39 OFFLINE   jakebullet

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Posted 20 July 2018 - 11:24 AM

Been looking at the gearbox a bit more, and I don't think it's in a gear at all. Something* is locking / driving the shafts.

 

I checked everything is in neutral by physically moving the gears with the selectors removed. Output will not turn unless I hold the clutch down. I then put it in each gear one at a time, and every gear it then won't turn with the clutch down.

 

One thing I did spot is there is a spring missing from the synchro. One of these:

 

synch001.jpg

 

Don't know where it's gone, could be jamming / driving a shaft?


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#40 OFFLINE   meggersdog

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Posted 20 July 2018 - 12:37 PM

I read earlier you've taken the overdrive off and since refitting you've had a gear problem.......

The idler gear from the output shaft of the gearbox to the overdrive is where I would be looking.



#41 OFFLINE   jakebullet

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Posted 20 July 2018 - 03:42 PM

Overdrive is still removed so it's not that. I can't face changing the box at the min so I'll ignore it and do the other billion jobs.

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#42 OFFLINE   John F

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Posted 20 July 2018 - 03:52 PM

I'd definitely look for that missing spring. Even if it's not the current problem it might well become the next one.


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#43 OFFLINE   Geep

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Posted 20 July 2018 - 05:20 PM

Had a brief look online and saw this:

 

I came across a few problems with the gearbox that I thought would have been quite major, but it had still been working up until I removed it... trusty landrover!!

 

A few of the problems were- rear nut on the mainshaft (in the transfer box) had unscrewed completely back to the point it wore the rear bearing housing out, this was the main issue as all gears on the mainshaft, when in neutral were still engaging.

 

SDC10965.jpg

 

More pictures of problems found on this box on link: https://forums.lr4x4...yone-seen-them/

 

And then found this:

 

The only time my SIII transmission got jammed in a gear and locked up the entire driveline was when the tabs on the locking washer broke off and the spline nut (on the rear of the transmssion behind the PTO coverplate) backed off and jammed up against the pto cover while I was reversing out of my driveway. It was the same symptoms you describe.

This is easy to check by popping off the center under-seat hatch and removing the cover plate on the rear of the transmission and having a peek. Here's what it SHOULDN'T look like:

 

4344433460_361c23e91f_o.jpg

 

http://forums.rovers...I-stuck-in-gear

 

​I agree with looking for missing spring but if it was jamming something, I doubt the transmission would rotate. I would expect to see it when you checked with borescope and there's always the chance it was left out or disappeared long ago. Not sure if above helps but at least it's something else to check without removing box. 



#44 OFFLINE   Geep

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Posted 20 July 2018 - 05:38 PM

 

At around 1:25 on he talks about the usual land rover problem of a spring escaped from the synchro hub.



#45 OFFLINE   jakebullet

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Posted Yesterday, 10:03 PM

It's not a dodgy nut against the rear bearing, 'cos it has an overdrive (currently removed). The nut appears to be properly tightened, but if I can find the socket I made I think I'll try removing it and see if it makes any difference. It needs to come off anyway if I'm going to change the box as I'll need to transfer the overdrive's gear to the replacement box.

 

Eddie Shovelhands is going to come and have a prod n poke too, and if no joy I'll try and con him into helping swap it.


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#46 OFFLINE   cros

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Posted Today, 04:26 AM

There are good synchro springs and some fake ones that don't fit right, you need the good ones. The shit ones break- I think people put them in because they thought that to overhaul something you just replace as many bits as you can. This is not so and applies to the entire box, if its not broke etc.
I would pull the gearbox to bits, its much easier than putting another unknown quantity in then having to remove it. You can shove those endoscopes up your arse.
I hate the all synchro box, lots of variations to catch you out when rebuilding too.
2 synchro much nicer to use but they get abuse from people who don't learn how to operate them.
I've often found problems with reverse gear idler shaft/bush, you can't get away with massive wear here and there are several variations too.
There's so much shit talked about series landrovers. If all is right they can keep working with only routine attention for decades. Two other things, you don't need a brake servo or chequer plate.
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#47 OFFLINE   Geep

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Posted Today, 10:09 AM

 

I would pull the gearbox to bits, its much easier than putting another unknown quantity in then having to remove it.

 

i agree with cros as above. I've never been a great fan of changing something rather than working with the known quantity you have. I always want to know what has failed and try to find out why. Let us know what you find Jake, I'm intrigued as to what caused the issue.  


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#48 OFFLINE   cros

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Posted Today, 10:58 AM

Its only my opinion and I'm digressing a bit but since we're on about gearboxes I'll say it. I never liked the Fairey overdrives because with their small oil capacity they can get very hot just when you don't want them to, at high speed. The Spanish made one is a bit stronger and might give less trouble but they're hard to find. A friend lives with this by altering them to use gearbox oil and recirculating it.
Rocky Mountain do this and are probably very good, but too pricey for me.
I removed the overdrive from my series 1 as I noticed a strange cyclic noise at high speed. This may be because the series 1 transfer box has a much smaller intermediate gear shaft than later ones, but I didn't like what the noise was saying and I'm happy with a bit more normal noise and less complication. I have 3.4 diff's. Surprisingly my de-turbo'd TDI pulled OK in overdrive with these, but fuel consumption was no better. This might not be true with a full fat 200 or 300, but these will very likely break your layshaft eventually as do Perky 4203s and the like.
Socket screws are useful for the speedo cable. Thats all I know.





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