Long* running landy 88" project - Flocking hell

[Guest Hooli]

 

 

 

Suggest me up where to go from here plz???

 

I'd take the rest of the valves out & confirm if they move ok or not, it's not much extra work from where you are.

 

I'm not sure how to check valve guides are the correct size, internal micrometers I's guess, but maybe something caused them to tighten up? I've no idea what could though.

[werntmeguv]

Long time lurker, first time poster here. Felt the need to pitch in on this one.

 

If you've had old, stale petrol in there for a long time it can coat the insides of the inlet tracts with black sticky tar. By running the engine it has warmed up the tar and softened it so it ran ok. Once it cools down, it glues everything in place. I had a similar thing happen with a 2.3 V6 Cologne engine in a kit car. It had stood for over 10 years and the first proper run on out the old petrol was ok. Next time I started it, after it a cooled, it bent a pushrod which then dislodged itself but the engine continued to run happily on 5 cylinders. Once the heads were off it was obvious that the valves had been gummed up in the guides. I stripped and cleaned the valves, straightened the pushrod and all is ok again.

[Momentary Lapse Of Reason]

When you try cleaning up the stem of the valve, are you able to dissolve (with thinners and\or meths) the build up on the stem where it is in the guide or do you have to get it off mechanically?

(If it dissolves it is probably "varnish" built up from fuel)

 

 

Simple way to check your guide size if you havn't got the specialist measuring equipment.

Buy a new inlet and exhaust valve ( they are quite cheap)

Clean them to spotless and try them in the cleaned guides, dry.

Put them half open and try to move them sideways, if there is any movement the guide needs replaced or sleeved.

 

If you can't get the valves in by hand with a little engine oil on the stems you have a different problem!

[Guest Hooli]

Long time lurker, first time poster here. Felt the need to pitch in on this one.

 

If you've had old, stale petrol in there for a long time it can coat the insides of the inlet tracts with black sticky tar. By running the engine it has warmed up the tar and softened it so it ran ok. Once it cools down, it glues everything in place. I had a similar thing happen with a 2.3 V6 Cologne engine in a kit car. It had stood for over 10 years and the first proper run on out the old petrol was ok. Next time I started it, after it a cooled, it bent a pushrod which then dislodged itself but the engine continued to run happily on 5 cylinders. Once the heads were off it was obvious that the valves had been gummed up in the guides. I stripped and cleaned the valves, straightened the pushrod and all is ok again.

 

 

Now that I've not heard of, but it makes sense having seen the inside of some carbs.

[jakebullet]

Cheers chaps, the glue theory would make sense. I'll order a spare valve as well as some not wibbly pushrods, and try a variety of solvents.

 

Am I right in thinking on the 2 1/4 they only put stem seals on the inlet valves, and you can cut down on soot by putting them on the exhaust too? May as well fit new seals while I'm at it.

 

What's the thoughts on head gaskets? It had a composite one on. Do I want one of those, or a copper death one?

[Guest Hooli]

I like copper ones as you can reuse. You need to anneal a new one before use though as they harden in storage.

 

I've no experience with those LR engines though.

[Momentary Lapse Of Reason]

The copper ones need retorqued after the engine has been brought up to heat a couple of times (driven 50 miles does it).

The composite ones don't need retorqued but can not be reused.

[Momentary Lapse Of Reason]

The valve steam seals varied over time, some only had them on the inlets, some had them on all eight. What had been done when they built the head?

[jakebullet]

Don't know, I've only removed one inlet valve so far. Need to get a proper valve compressor instead of using a g clamp. It's a turner engineering jobbie, gas flowed, unleaded seats, more power than a briggs n stratton.

[werntmeguv]

 and try a variety of solvents.

 

 

 

Cellulose thinners worked for me.

[richardthestag]

Fatha thestag had an issue with his IIa where it kept blowing the gasket between 3 and 4 cylinders. garage kept fixing it and within 500 miles - probably about 18months motoring it would go again.

 

I removed the head, piece of piss and no nasties at all with this job other than the weight of the thing.

 

The head was cracked between #3 and #4 and some monkey had welded it and flappied it flat again.

 

Head was scrap

 

Found an S3 head on ebay complete which I sniped at £20. checked it over and all ok, fitted to IIa block and been happy days since.

 

I do have the old head in my shed which I can remove springs, valves and colletts for you which you can have for cost of postage. 

 

let me know

[alf892]

Don't know, I've only removed one inlet valve so far. Need to get a proper valve compressor instead of using a g clamp. It's a turner engineering jobbie, gas flowed, unleaded seats, more power than a briggs n stratton.

Quick way to remove valve is put some rag into combustion chamber with head on floor.

 

Place spark plug socket over valve spring....tap once to break taper join on collets.......then a nice sharp strike with decent hammer and bingo.

 

One collet sometimes catches so you may need to tap again

[somewhatfoolish]

The valve looks like it's covered in oil gum, like the oil has got bored of lubricating and now wants to stick things together. Has it been used by a hair shirt type who will only use natural products and had castor put in it?

[jakebullet]

Fatha thestag had an issue with his IIa where it kept blowing the gasket between 3 and 4 cylinders. garage kept fixing it and within 500 miles - probably about 18months motoring it would go again.

 

I removed the head, piece of piss and no nasties at all with this job other than the weight of the thing.

 

The head was cracked between #3 and #4 and some monkey had welded it and flappied it flat again.

 

Head was scrap

 

Found an S3 head on ebay complete which I sniped at £20. checked it over and all ok, fitted to IIa block and been happy days since.

 

I do have the old head in my shed which I can remove springs, valves and colletts for you which you can have for cost of postage. 

 

let me know

 

Thanks for the offer but I've ordered some new valves already. They're only a couple of quid each. I'm hopeful I can salvage the originals I think it's just glued up rather than bent valves.

[The_Equalizer]

Thanks for the offer but I've ordered some new valves already. They're only a couple of quid each. I'm hopeful I can salvage the originals I think it's just glued up rather than bent valves.

 

I trust the new valves don't come in a blue box.

[Guest Hooli]

shitpart have a quality* all of their own.

[jakebullet]

So today I put bluetack over the bottom of the valve guide and filled it up with thinners. After soaking all day I gave it a scrub with a pipe cleaner. The valve got a soak and a scrub with scotchbrite. Put it back in with liberal oiling and the valve moves freely now. There's no sideways play so I think once I've done the other 3 valves I'll be back in business. Yay!

 

The head looks a bit shabby cosmetically. Any hints on tidying up? BBQ spray paint?

[Guest Hooli]

I'd be tempted to check the exhaust valves while you're there too. The fuel shouldn't have got to them, but just in case.

 

As to painting it, cylinder black? it's designed for things that hot.

[The_Equalizer]

The head looks a bit shabby cosmetically. Any hints on tidying up? BBQ spray paint?

 

For the effort involved it is worth cleaning it properly and then using engine enamel which can be bought in rattle cans or tins. For the very minimal extra effort and cost you will have a far longer lasting finish. Take it from someone who made the school boy error of originally using Hammerite many years back.

[Momentary Lapse Of Reason]

Cleaning and checking the exhaust valves should be done, saves you going back in there for the sake of a wee bit of work now.

 

Painting it, I like to go a light grey colour so you can see any leaks easier.

(also cause I've already got a pot of light grey engine enamel !).

[jakebullet]

Holy thread resurrection Batman!

 

I'm in lots of pain tonight due to finally refitting the cylinder head. Still got the tappets to set before I can fire it up.

 

SQA time. I've gone for a composite head gasket. Do these need re-torquing after initial engine run? The leaflet in with it is like ikea instructions and of course the hbol assumes you're using copper & asbestos.

[bangernomics]

Sell it to me

[Mally]

The gasket?

[DodgeRover]

No but it's not a bad idea unless you are using torque to yield bolts

[N Dentressangle]

No but it's not a bad idea unless you are using torque to yield bolts

 

Agreed - give it a re-torque. Can't hurt, and standard LR bolts are just to a specified torque setting IIRC, so you'll be OK.

 

I don't think these engines are very prone to OMGHGF anyway - very low stressed and low compression usually, so they'll still run despite criminal abuse and inches of wear.

[Momentary Lapse Of Reason]

See reply #97 for my tupenceworth.

[somewhatfoolish]

Agreed - give it a re-torque. Can't hurt, and standard LR bolts are just to a specified torque setting IIRC, so you'll be OK.

 

I don't think these engines are very prone to OMGHGF anyway - very low stressed and low compression usually, so they'll still run despite criminal abuse and inches of wear.

Thirded, the HBOL may not specify it but it won't do any harm. Re-torquing is pretty normal with 1950s engine design.

[Guest Hooli]

Just remember to readjust the tappets after retorquing a pushrod lump.

[richardthestag]

re torque after running up to temp and cooling down again.

 

if they do blow it is often between 1-2 and 3-4 cylinders which makes them sound like a right bag of crap

[jakebullet]

So finally pulled my finger out today and did a bit more engine assembly. 

 

Kidding myself that I'm being scientific* at setting tappets:

 

 

Would probably work better if the mag mount had some magnetism, but it was possible after a fashion to detect full valve opening. Rule of 9 etc

 

Hmmmm.

 

 

That's not very good is it? I'm telling myself that the battery barely being able to get over TDC means it will improve with a charged battery. So I stuck the manifolds back on, and then mum arrived and said it's time for tea. Oh good, a volunteer! Stand here, hold this can, and when I tell you spray it in that hole plz.

 

It does appear to sort of run on brake cleaner, and there's definitely effort required on the starting handle. I'll have to get some petrol that's not 20 years old and try it properly but I'm feeling quite upbeat for a change.