Long* running landy 88" project - Flocking hell

[jakebullet]

What miserable job shall I do today?

 

 

Possibly* the rubbery things are a bit past their best.

 

Of course the impossible to get to jubilee clip on the bottom hose didn't want to play. Clip meet Mr. saw... Just enough room to sneak it under the battery tray.

 

Black sludge + knackered bits

 

So I put the new bottom hose on without major pain. Then tried the bypass hose, and it's a complete bastard? It doesn't want to go on the water pump outlet at all, just keeps folding in the middle. Finally managed to get it down to where appears right, but it then looks too long and the part that connects to the thermostat housing is 1/4 inch too high up to bolt back on. The old pipe looks quite "bulgy" at the ends as if it's been forced further than it should be to get it on.

 

Any suggestions? Chop 1/4 inch off the top? Keep on forcing and hope I can get it down a bit more? Kill it with fire?

 

I flushed the radiator as best I could with a watering can. (not hose accessible location). I'm thinking it may be a plan if I ever get the hoses replaced to fill up with just water and run it up to temperature and then drain? May get a bit more crud out?

 

[The_Equalizer]

For what it's worth this is the exact job that I've been doing over the last few weeks (the remit has expanded a bit to getting engine tin wear powder blasted and the like.) I have gone rather over-the-top and given the wallet a good beating to the tune of several hundred quid. I've had the radiator re-cored, rebuilt the Smiths' heater box (including new core, powder coating and nice decal), all new hoses and other bits powder coated too. I've also been using genuine marine grade stainless steel 316 Jubilee clips. Not cheap, but hopefully avoids the ball ache that are rusty Jubilee clips ever again. 

 

As for the hose I think you're having problems with, I took the combined thermostat housing/heater valve off to replace it which means you can remove it from the water pump with very little effort. In fact I couldn't see any other way of doing it. I'll try and get photos - currently it's pitch black outside. I certainly didn't have any problems with length or fitting it once I'd taken off the thermostat housing/heater valve. One thing I do rely on is the official parts manual, which helps out no end in terms of getting the right part number (with the except of the rocker cover which I'm sure they've got the two types for the petrol 2.25 the wrong way round engine number-wise.)

. 

[jakebullet]

I took the heater valve / top bit of pipe off, 2 bolts on the side of thermostat housing. New hose down on the water pump outlet as far as I can get it, then put the valve bit into the bypass pipe. It's then too high to reconnect to the thermostat housing. I'll have to get a pic tomorrow.
 
Maybe there's more than one bypass hose? Or it's got a britpart water pump that doesn't fit very well. (guessing). Hose is 574871 which appears to be for all 2 1/4s according to paddocks.

[Momentary Lapse Of Reason]

On other forums people have been reporting problems with bypass hoses being a little too small an internal diameter, almost as if there is a batch made of a metric size just under the correct imperial size.

Try having a measure of the old, new and the stubbs?

[The_Equalizer]

This is the set of hoses I bought about a month ago:

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bearmach-Land-Rover-Series-3-Radiator-Hose-Set-Top-Bottom-Bypass-Hoses/221931825152?hash=item33ac2ae800:g:bKoAAOSwMmBVt~cD

 

No problems with the by-pass hose (it's the only one I've currently fitted). I'll try and get photos tonight.

 

Mine is a late 2.25 petrol - the five bearing version - not that I think that makes a jot of difference. The part number - 574871 - does appear to cover all (although I'll double-check the official parts manual tonight). Here's the hose on its own from the same eBay seller:

 

http://https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bearmach-Land-Rover-Series-2-3-88-109-2-25-Water-bypass-hose-574871/221852147894?hash=item33a76b20b6:g:h~IAAOSwyQtVzLlU

 

I'm sure you know that Land Rovers (like VW Beetles) seem to suffer from a shed load of cheap (and useless) repo parts. When buying bits for the LR half my time is trying to ensure I get the best quality possible.

[jakebullet]

It looks like this currently:

 

 

 

Maybe I'm supposed to get it further onto the water pump, but I couldn't force it any further last night. I'll leave it on over the weekend and try again. maybe it will expand a bit being left stretched? Yeah, wishful thinking.

[The_Equalizer]

My impressions from the pictures are as you've stated. It looks rather tight, the bit of hose on the water pump looks a little too short and the bit on the by-pass end too long. Mine certainly wasn't any kind of problem to fit and I can be a bit of an old woman when it comes to getting such things right. As soon as I get home I will have a nose and report back.

[The_Equalizer]

I've had a look and mine is no way as near a tight as that. The part number is correct according to the manual and it seems universal for all 2.25 petrol engines.

 

I've got photos, but cannot for the life of me see how to add them to this site. Do they need to be hosted by a third party? I've clicked on the 'My Media' icon in the editor, but cannot see how I can add photos to it. Any tips?

[The_Equalizer]

 

 

 

[jakebullet]

Yours definitely fits better. Bloody britpart strikes again.

[Geep]

I had another thought on the gearbox problem tonight. Broke out the starting handle and wound it to TDC. Marked the output shaft of the main gearbox and turned the engine one full turn. The output shaft moved a quarter turn-ish, so it's in second gear? (2.22:1 says HBOL)

 

Not sure if that helps any actually.

 

Get a large screwdriver and move the selector until it disengages. They only slide back and forth so you should be able to force it in and out of gear with a screwdriver and thumping with the palm of your hand. If not, put the first/second selector on and manipulate that to disengage then check it engages both gears and disengages. 

 

Might take a bit of fiddling about to get a place/leverage where it can be moved back and forth and might need some slight rotation to move but it should move with a distinctive clunk it and out of gear. 

[jakebullet]

The bearmach hose finally arrived today. It's the same dimensions as the britpart one, but different material. It's got a lot more stretch in it, and went straight on. Success!

[Momentary Lapse Of Reason]

Good stuff!

 

 

Just had a similar problem with an Allmakes hose - the one on the top of the carb to the air filter pipe elbow bend - got it on but what a struggle.

[Guest Hooli]

Back to bleeding brakes, I've found a large syringe used to suck fluid from the bleed nipple works well with difficult systems. That's the same as the kit you have so...

 

Or fill the system from the bleed nipple with a large syringe as that should* naturally push the air out the master as it fills up.

[somewhatfoolish]

The bearmach hose finally arrived today. It's the same dimensions as the britpart one, but different material. It's got a lot more stretch in it, and went straight on. Success!

Shitpart strikes again.

[jakebullet]

Get a large screwdriver and move the selector until it disengages. They only slide back and forth so you should be able to force it in and out of gear with a screwdriver and thumping with the palm of your hand. If not, put the first/second selector on and manipulate that to disengage then check it engages both gears and disengages. 

 

Might take a bit of fiddling about to get a place/leverage where it can be moved back and forth and might need some slight rotation to move but it should move with a distinctive clunk it and out of gear. 

 

Finally looked at this today. I replaced the first / second selector. I can put it in any position (1st / neutral or 2nd) and I get 2nd gear in all positions. I realise this makes bugger all sense, but there's a definite clunk into each position. Gearbox out time

[jakebullet]

Last night I put some rad flush in it and ran it up to temperature. It was running like a Swiss watch. You know, like all totally worn out 2 1/4's do right up till they die horribly.

 

I've just gone and drained out the rusty crap the flush has freed from the cooling system. Filled it up with fresh water for another go, and it doesn't start. It also appears to be turning a bit too easily. Pulled the rocker cover and:

 

 

Yep. Fucked!

 

Suggestions on a postcard? Everything is turning. Exhaust pushrod on cylinder 4 (ie the not bent one after the bent one) still goes up n down, so camshaft is going round n not broken.

 

Pull cylinder head? Vin plate & overdrive on ebay n give rest to a pikey? Poke self in eyes with a blunt stick?

[Guest Hooli]

Take rocker shaft off and tap the valve with a hammer to see if it moves. If/when it doesn't you know you'll need the head off

[jakebullet]

Rocker shaft removed. All inlet valve pushrods have at least a bit of bendy. #4 (worst one) the valve moves but sticks before eventually springing back up, so that one at least is bendy?

 

Guessing timing chain has jumped and clonky clonky? Think it's fixable?

[Momentary Lapse Of Reason]

Yes its fixable.

Get the head off, your going to have to change some valves.

Then check the cam timing is correct.

[Guest Hooli]

Anything is fixable...

 

Seriously though get the head off & have a look. When I had a Disco it snapped the cambelt twice & I never had to replace any valves as it bent pushrods but nothing else.

[jakebullet]

I'm going to be most miffed if the head isn't salvagable, it's a "high performance" unleaded head that was £kerching 23 years ago.

 

I've got most of the ancillary stuff off, so will try to pull the head tomorrow. Have to buy a valve compressor as well, but I'm expecting dints in the pistons.

[jonathan_dyane]

It will fix no bother, I remember cobbling together a 2 1/4 diesel for my dad's terrible IIa out of three fucked engines and it was nae bother. Pistons probably ok but if they aren't they're available and cheap.

[Guest Hooli]

At most the worst I can imagine is it needing valve guides if a bent stem has been forced into one.

[Talbot]

Couple of thoughts:

 

You might even get away with just changing the pushrods on that. However, you do need to find out why this has happened, so having the head off is a good idea. It's dead simple on 2286cc land-rover engines. I had the head off, Pistons/rods out, pistons changed and it all back together in a day once.

 

AS for the gearbox.. this sounds very similar to the failure I had once. The bearing that sits between the shaft and the gear for second (sometimes called the anti-selector bearing) which allows 2nd gear to spin at whatever speed it likes when it's NOT selected, has failed, an is transmitting drive. Strip-down and rebuild is the ONLY option here. The bearing is cheap enough.

 

I'm expecting dints in the pistons.

Which you completely ignore and just shove it back together again.

[spartacus]

If there are dints in the pistons just rub down any high spots of metal to eliminate any potential causes of hot spots.

As has been said getting the head off is easy, I would be very surprised if there is any bottom end damage, particularly as it wasn't running when it went wrong.

[The_Equalizer]

Head off isn't a killer and it will give you a clearer picture. For what it is worth (very little) I ran mine with a big crack in no. three piston and some of the piston skirt from no. four missing (see below) for about a 1000 miles before I got to the bottom of the problem. That even included a trip from Belfast to Kent. 

 

[DodgeRover]

Father DR has a 2&1/4 petrol from an 80,000mile S3 safari, was a lovely runner - been dry stored 20 years now if anybody is interested.

[jakebullet]

I'm super confused now !!

 

So I pulled the head. No obvious damage to piston 4, and all the bores look fine.

 

 

Removed the timing cover. Er it all looks normal and things line up as per haynes book of lies.

 

 

Removed the collets / springs on the valve with the most bent pushrod. Valve does not want to move and has to be drifted out. But once it's out it looks pretty straight

 

 

It does not want to go back in. It would be a drive fit to make it do so. All the other inlet valves appear to not move when given a tap with a hammer. (exhaust valves move).

 

So it looks like all the inlet valves have decided to stick solid overnight after running the day before. Which makes no sense whatsoever. As far as I can tell the bottom end & cam timing is fine, damage is from valves not moving.

 

Suggest me up where to go from here plz???

[Geep]

Didn't you say it has been standing for some time? Might be stuck valves initially bending pushrods then limited opening allowing it to run. Would idle reasonably but driving would show up lack of power or misfire. 

 

Your gearbox issue is odd! Either the mainshaft has moved/got play i it or a needle roller on the mainshaft has seized up. Wasn't it very low on oil? Could be the reason but either way, as you say, gearbox out. Be interesting to see what the problem was if you decide to strip it rather than just put another box in.