Project The Austin 2dr 1100 story - Part IV - Now in sharleys hands

[alf892]

Eh?

Is there a reason you can't just rotate the top shell out?

Really you need to clean the caps/rods with wet and dry to do a proper job and avoid tight spots.

 

It needs to turn smoothly by hand when all done. Clean everything and it will.......scrimp on cleaning and it likely won't.

[SiC]

 

 

You'll have the crank out in an hour. It has to come out to fit the upper shells.

Removing the crank is not my concern, it's more the cost of a regrind/polish. Looking like around £130 or so to have it done locally here. Still got plenty of other stuff I need to buy and if having it ground is something that doesn't really need doing, then I'd rather put that money elsewhere.

 

If the crank is smooth having it polished at an engineering place to remove minor marks costs relatively little, I wouldn't attempt it myself unless I was putting it through the auctions etc.

The area where the shells fit needs to be eat your dinner off it clean, you can scrape the block area they seat into without worry - it's not unknown for a bit of white metal to stick (or weld itself) on there.

Crank needs to rotate once the new shells are fitted, use plenty of lubrication. Do them one at a time and ensure the crank doesn't lock up.

Fitting new shells without touching the crank isn't going to cause anything else to bugger up unless you fit the shells wrong.

If fitting new shells isn't going to bugger anything else up, whats the advantage of having the crank ground/polished?

[Mally]

Advantage of having the crank ground and polished is if you put it together correctly it will run forever.

If you polish the crank and fit new mains it may run forever.

If you just fit the shells it will run for a while, before you have to strip it all down, grind the crank, and fit new shells,

 

Question is how long's a while, and will you still own it?

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

Removing the crank is not my concern, it's more the cost of a regrind/polish. Looking like around £130 or so to have it done locally here. Still got plenty of other stuff I need to buy and if having it ground is something that doesn't really need doing, then I'd rather put that money elsewhere.

 

 

If fitting new shells isn't going to bugger anything else up, whats the advantage of having the crank ground/polished?

 

 

You're thinking too much. Get the crank out, whip some 800 grit around the mains to clean them up and reassemble with new shells. That's it. It's an old 1100, not an M3.

[SiC]

Genuinely a bit bummed that the engine is going to need more work. Was hoping it would be a case of giving stuff a quick clean, oil and button it all back together.

 

Not sure I trust myself to attack the crank with sandpaper. When I have some sort of material removal product in hand, it has a habit of ending up a bit like this:

 

So I think at this point it would be a good idea for me to get professionals in on that crank. I might go give these local guys a visit:

http://www.pricebrosengineering.co.uk/crankshaft-repairs.php

 

Hopefully it'll just need a polish and won't cost too much.

[captain_70s]

Are you going to clock up the thousands of miles required to wear away your new shells?

 

If you don't want to pay out the money to have the crank polished right now just shove some new shells in and finish the car. Drive it around, decide if you're going to keep it. If you are going to keep it whip the engine back out and get the crank done when you have the funds. If you aren't, fuck it.

[SiC]

Are you going to clock up the thousands of miles required to wear away your new shells?

 

I have no idea to be honest. Quite a possibility I will do. Not least that all the work and effort so far on it makes the car feel quite personal.

 

If you don't want to pay out the money to have the crank polished right now just shove some new shells in and finish the car. Drive it around, decide if you're going to keep it. If you are going to keep it whip the engine back out and get the crank done when you have the funds. If you aren't, fuck it.

This is exactly what I was pondering about doing. Hence my question earlier on if it's likely to sustain any more damage elsewhere if I just change the mains. Especially as it ran so well when I started it. At least I now have an oil pressure gauge to keep an eye on things.

 

At least the engine is a piece of piss to pull out of this. Pretty sure I could get it out in a day again on my own easily enough. But then if a professional polish is like 80-100 quid or so, it almost doesn't make sense to not have it done. It'll cost nearly that in replacement gaskets and main+big end shells to do it all again.

 

Btw, I'd love to see what your Dollys mains + big end bearing and crank look like!

[captain_70s]

Btw, I'd love to see what your Dollys mains + big end bearing and crank look like!

 

Judging by the sounds the bearings no longer exist and the big ends are simply in direct contact with the crank. Can't have worn shells if there aren't any shells, thus the car needs no repairs.

[sharley17194]

the wore that can happen is the oil pressure will slowly drop and it will knock, it could be years before that happens. Don't think just do it. TBF if you take things apart expect issues, i find blissful ignorance is the best way forward hands down. Dont look oyu will never know.

[Eddie Honda]

At least I now have an oil pressure gauge to keep an eye on things.

Wack it all back together and worry later...

 

[SiC]

the wore that can happen is the oil pressure will slowly drop and it will knock, it could be years before that happens. Don't think just do it. TBF if you take things apart expect issues, i find blissful ignorance is the best way forward hands down. Dont look oyu will never know.

This is why I'm not removing the head!

[fastblatt]

Yep I’m for new bearings and put it back together as is

[Mally]

Whatever you do.

Don't use Sandpaper.

[sharley17194]

I would take the head off and replace the gasket but don't look to much!

 

This is why I'm not removing the head!

[SiC]

How different is a Minor 1098cc crank to the one in this?

 

Charles Ware is only down the road from me, so this could be a very easy thing for me to do.

https://www.morrisminor.org.uk/parts/5-crankshaft/218-crankshaft-1098-including-bearings?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI3o2fzZLZ3gIVDrHtCh2qog1rEAQYBCABEgKPSvD_BwE

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

How different is a Minor 1098cc crank to the one in this?

 

 

 

 

Very - there's no tail for the primary gear!

 

800 grit and wet and dry, plenty of WD 40. Be right in no time.

[sharley17194]

same bearing sand shells, as them if they can do yours. 

 

How different is a Minor 1098cc crank to the one in this?

Charles Ware is only down the road from me, so this could be a very easy thing for me to do.
https://www.morrisminor.org.uk/parts/5-crankshaft/218-crankshaft-1098-including-bearings?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI3o2fzZLZ3gIVDrHtCh2qog1rEAQYBCABEgKPSvD_BwE

[DodgeRover]

I think I used to pay £140 for a regrind on a 4 cylinder crank inc the shells.

Having it polished was obviously lots cheaper

[Christine]

It's a  long stroke ,small bore,  a series . It'll knock the shells out anyway,  reground , polished  or left alone... .just change the worn shells ,and change the pump , and don't rev the bollocks off it .    Be fine

[richardthestag]

I recently had two Rover v8 cranks worked on, one polished and one ground.

 

Rover v8 crank has 5 mains and 4 big end journals (each one takes two conrods )

 

To grind the one that these shells came off cost me £260 + vat it was standard, had definitely seized due to oil starvation, and was ground 10thou

 

 

The other crank just needed a polish and that cost £60 to polish and measure

 

what I am saying is that I agree with the "give it a polish and see what happens" folk ^^^

 

Crank needs to be out, soak wet n dry paper for 5 mins or so beforehand, I have done them with soap and warm water in the past. Get a strip of paper that is wide as the journal, wrap it around half of the journal and hold both ends of the paper strip one in each hand

 

then just whizz it back and forth. spin the crank 180 and do it again. when it looks clean and shiny. Blow through all the oilways with an air gun. if there is any sign of any crud use a pipe cleaner brushlike these. 

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10Pcs-Stainless-Steel-Nylon-Straw-Cleaners-cleaning-Brush-for-Drinking-Pipe-17cm/262690180543

 

I do not know what size oilways you have so check em first

 

Next if you have a suitable micrometer you can check for oval'ing of the journals. it does happen over time as the greatest load will be on the thrust side of the bore. this puts uneven load on the bearings and journals. I note that you have taken nice original standard size Vandervell bearings out. These are nice and soft and should take more punishment than the crank journals. sadly unobtainium now so fit whatever you can get your hands on.

 

You can also measure the journal size and compare against the tolerance for a standard shell I think even Haynes publish the numbers

 

Lastly and with a set of standard shells you could always go belt and braces and use plastigage to confirm that the shells and crank are a perfect match

 

 

[Noel Tidybeard]

Harsh!

 

accurate!

[SiC]

accurate!

But is it?

[Noel Tidybeard]

But is it?

maybe yes, maybe no

 

[Noel Tidybeard]

i spose if you do the bottom end of the bostin the mgmgmgmgbgt will be a peice-of-piss

[SiC]

Funnily enough I was only just up at the garage earlier this evening. It appears to be still there. Well over a years ownership of it now.

[SiC]

So it's now been over a week since I've touched anything on the 1100.

 

First the engine. I've come to a decision on what I'm going to do. Before that though, what were my options?

• Do nothing. Put the engine back together and continue on
• Replace the main bearing shells with no other extra work.
• Sand down the main bearing journals and put new bearing shells on.
• Take the crank down to an engineering place for them to sort and fit new bearing shells.

Option 1 was a no-go, especially as shells are cheap and its labour that is time consuming. I'm here now, it makes sense to sort this.

Option 2 I seriously considered. However if I get crap oil pressure or future problems from lack of oil pressure, I know I'll regret it. I.e. See my MGB GT thread.

Option 3 I wasn't going to do as I wouldn't be confident I'd get all the dust and grit out. Also I have a habit of over sanding stuff, which on precision machined surfaces isn't good.

Option 4 is the one I'm probably going to do. I've spoken to these guys and they've told me they can do pretty much anything on the engine I want them to. They can do polishing, regrinds, head work and even full-rebores. If I drop the crank in (ideally with the shells), they can recommend what the next best steps would be. Depending on the state of the journals they can either be ground or polished - including some polished and some ground (i.e. if the big ends just need polishing and have the mains ground). Chap said £16 per journal for grinding (I assume exc vat) and about half that for a polish.

 

Hopefully sometime one evening next week I'll get a chance to take the crank out and then I'll drop it in after work. Probably only about a 20 minute drive or so from work. Handily not far from the welding supplies place I use to get welding gas.

 

I think this is the best decision. Hopefully there won't be any other work needed on the engine now - apart from replacement parts. Its payday today, so there is a bit of money back in the kitty next month for getting on with sorting stuff. With a bit of luck, when I have time over the Christmas holiday I can seal the engine back together.

 

Finally on the engine, I'm also seriously considering upgrading to a duplex chain (with no tensioner). If you turn the crank, there is a couple of degrees movement of it before the camshaft moves. Reading up, this is not good. Thus will lead to timing changes and power loss. With less than 50bhp out of the factory new, I need every pony in that little engine I can get! I could replace it with a new simplex chain (£3 from Moss) but a duplex chain kit is only £30 from minispares - so something that isn't going to break the bank. I see it as a cheap way of gaining a bit extra BHP that otherwise would have been lost.

[SiC]

Secondly this weekend I'm hoping to get on with more bodywork. Mrs SiC is away with her friends on a spa weekend, so leaves me time to get on with the 1100. I'm keeping fingers-crossed that the weather will hold out and won't get any rain. It would be really good if this weekend I can get that drivers side of the car all done.

 

Short term I think I'll need to put the engine back together loosely. The garage vinyl floor is covered in oil and I'm worried about a rough spark from welding+grinding setting the whole lot up in smoke. Also as I have the garage door open when working, any grinding dust has the potential to blow into the garage and thus into the insides of the engine. Grinding dust in an open and exposed engine is something that I imagine will be a very bad thing!!

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

For 32 quid, get the mains polished, job done.

[SiC]

For 32 quid, get the mains polished, job done.

Not even that? 3 main journals, so £24 exc vat.

 

Tbh as a minimum, I'd probably get it all polished. 4 big ends, 3 mains so roughly £56 exc vat for all polished. £80 exc vat for mains ground, big ends polished. Not going to break the bank.

 

Hopefully means that this engine is a proper good 'un by the end of it.

[SiC]

 

 

are they six sided sockets?

 

I have many impact sets that are not and they cannot cope with the worst fixings that I might need the impact wrench for

I forgot to reply to your message the other week.

 

Yes they're six-sided.