The state of the market: cheap car buyers and sellers

[Cavcraft]

It’s well documented throughout internet fora that buying and selling cheap cars can be a huge pain. Dodgy sellers wanting to meet you in supermarket car parks, gumtree £60 today m9 type buyers. Auctions are a no go zone for private buyers by and large (fees are crippling).

 

This PH SOTW caught my eye - a Panda 100HP at a dealer for £975. Cheap unless you’re winning one in an AS roffle. https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=23&t=1749125

 

What amazed me was the number of comments on the discussion pointing out things like “the paint is dodgy” “the dealer can’t say it’s a trade sale it’s against the law you have rights”. That’s on an enthusiasts forum who aparrently consider cars like that Panda to be a worthy steer. One for sale for less than £1000 which is well under the going rate for one that hasn’t been previously owned by cort16 . The very definition of “shed” in a PH’s eyes yet the warranty status/lack of seems to overrule.

 

When did it get like this - when the wannabe Martin Lewis consumer champions made it completely unreasonable for an actual bona fide trader to sell a part ex banger because you know they’ll be right back next week when a tyre needs inflating.

 

When the Gumtree idiots and lay-by/driveway heroes become pretty much the only way to buy a cheap car will these people re-adjust their expectations? Good luck quoting SOGA if you’ve bought from a pikey or council estate dweller, they’ll just kick fuck out of you.

 

Of course, if these places are the only ones to buy a cheap car they’ll quickly become the only people buying them too and the broken Xbox / kashtodaym8 cycle goes on.

 

When did we become so scared of a £1000 car potentially having some problems?

 

Said it hundreds of times, will say it again:

 

1) Bargain Hunt, everything has to be cheaper and cash. It doesn't matter how cheap it is, it has to be cheaper still.

 

2) social media: someone buys a £200 car with 3 months MOT, the EML comes on after 2 weeks then it's all 'Mark Markson sold me a dodgy car. I take my kids in that and it's dangerous, blah blah blah. They always seem to use taking their kids in the car and they never EVER throw their hands up and admit they were a fucking idiot for using the last £200 of their minimum wage/dole money on a car they didn't even bother inspecting or test driving  and that they bought from a bloke they don't know in a petrol station fucking forecourt. Obvs. like all their wanker mates etc are queuing up to say 'I'd go round and smash his face in etc

 

3) Some two bob know it all off their tits on Stella and weed who watches Judge Rinder and tells them they definitely get 15 years warranty on a fucking 18 year old Corsa.

 

 

There's a reason so many semi decent and decent motors get fragged, and that's because people don't want to deal with these dickheads. The most ironic thing is though that this pushes up the price of cheap bangers because there's now less competition due to these idiots, so now the days of a decent runabout for sub sort of £400 are getting shorter and shorter.

[sierraman]

As said most sub grand cars are sold subject to spares or repair. Its to avoid the above problems, doesn't necessarily mean its fucked.

[xtriple]

It's been the same for as long as I can remember. When I used to deal (80s90s) it was always the cheap stuff that caused problems, the cars were fine, the buyers, not so much, In the end I fostered a relationship with another dealer who loved selling utter chod and floggend everything to him. Lost a few quid, but cheque (remember those?) in hand was the last I saw or heard from him until the next load of purchases.

 

I very nearly got done by trading standards because I sold a high spec BX that I'd taken back in p/x. It was okay but had problems.... nothing serious but annoying and it was destined for the auctions (before cheap cars man came on the scene). Some random came in with an absolute tale of woe about NEEDING a cheap car there and then and he wanted the BX. I told him it was unsuitable and tried to steer him towards a Fiesta or Escort also sat at the back of the lot which was a 'good' car but he wanted the BX. I left him alone, let him put it on the ramp (grief from mechanics of course - my way!) told him EVERYTHING I knew was wrong with it (lots) but he still wanted it.

 

Three weeks later nice man from trading standards preaching the letter of the law at me and generally giving me a very bad time. Fortunately, I had put everything on the receipt, the same receipt the buyer had 'lost' and so was in the clear. However, what really riled me was that there had been no contact from the buyer at all and everything he was complaining about was stuff he knew about. I was amzed at the lengths TS went to to try and get meL they even knew it had the interior froma  different BX that was in a scrapyard in Exeter!

 

Refused to sell anything else cheap to anyone I didn't know or genuine traders after that. All buyers are liars!

[txe4]

It's been the same for as long as I can remember. When I used to deal (80s90s) it was always the cheap stuff that caused problems, the cars were fine, the buyers, not so much, In the end I fostered a relationship with another dealer who loved selling utter chod and floggend everything to him. Lost a few quid, but cheque (remember those?) in hand was the last I saw or heard from him until the next load of purchases.

 

 

This.

 

The cheaper the stuff you're selling, the more thoughtless and annoying people are about it.

 

The absolute bottom-end of this is trying to give stuff away on freecycle - where you get FAR more dicking-about than if you just put it on Facebook marketplace / Gumtree for £1. 

 

Even there, though, low-priced stuff attracts far more idiots. The difference between selling some scrap electronic shite on ebay for £5, and good condition Apple stuff for £500, is striking. Yes, expensive stuff attracts fraud attempts, but on balance is still *far* less faff than shite.

 

Every enquiry I had about the £9k LEAF was serious, and the first person to turn up and view brought cash and took it away. Selling a fucked Corsa for £400 though, jesus what a nightmare.

[Shirley Knott]

Because it was about 4.50 in the afternoon, and I needed a car to get me in to work in the morning. I (stupidly) believed him. I also didn't know of the specific issues with this engine as I was looking at buying *anything* that would get me mobile again..

 

I should also say that the car was cheap as it had a rattly DMF. He told me there was no comeback on that, and that was fine. I pressed him about any other significant issues (IE shit that matters, not poxy rubbish) and he stated everything else was fine. Which it wasn't

 

 

There are several caveats on the SOGA. I had done no more than about 50 miles in the car in total when I rejected it, and it went back to him with barely any more on it. The SOGA states you have to be reasonable about all aspects of the rejection, so anything utterly unreasonable will not be upheld by a court.

 

Was this a private sale?

 

If so then hat's off to you for bringing the SOGA into a £600 private car sale. My mind is slightly blown by that...

 

RE sales of cheap  cars, I'd agree that the cheaper they are the greater the chance of attracting mouth breathers. I sold a Passat Highline on Gumtree last year and that was interesting to say the least... Not for the faint-hearted and certainly not an exercise I'd like to repeat anytime soon 

[mercrocker]

Dunno about you guys, but I fucking much preferred the old Yellow Free-Ad Friday page stuff where you got a proper phone number.   I weeded out a fair chunk of dickhead sellers just by talking to them.   The under-£500 section of those publications kept me on four wheels for most of the 80s and 90s. 

 

I have only occasionally bought off a used car lot and quite frankly regretted each purchase.    Buyers can and might be cunts but most of those sheepskins are just fucking liars.

[Talbot]

Was this a private sale?

 

If so then hat's off to you for bringing the SOGA into a £600 private car sale. My mind is slightly blown by that...

No, it was a dealer. If it was a private sale I would

a)Have never paid £600 for a fucking mundaneo, and

b)Sucked it up as my own stupid fault.

I had a look at egumbayads after I'd bought it and I clearly paid over the odds, as other similar models (and not fucked) were selling for £350-£550 ish, so £600 was top money.

 

Had it been in OK condition, I'd probably have kept it for a while. As it was, it was just plain dangerous. I made my resons for rejecting the car *very* clear in the letter I wrote:

 

Dear Sirs.

 

RE: CK54 OGH Ford Mondeo TDCI

 

On 1st November 2106 I purchased and took delivery of Vehicle registration CK54 OGH, a Ford Mondeo TDCI, from yourselves. I have subsequently discovered that it is not of satisfactory quality as it suffers from a dangerous defect: During normal driving, the vehicle repeatedly falls into “limp home mode” and on several occasions has cut out completely without warning.

 

The vehicle has covered less than 150 miles since purchase and has faulted or cut out some 12 times. It has either dropped in to limp home mode or lost power and cut out completely during every single journey. This is clearly dangerous, as the vehicle has been stranded in a vulnerable location on several of these occasions.

 

I was made aware at the time of sale that the vehicle exhibited a “noisy dual-mass flywheel” and after inspection I agreed that this was evident. However, this is very much not the issue and despite assurances at the time that “the vehicle drives perfectly otherwise” this is clearly not the case. I accept that with a vehicle of this age and value that there will likely be other imperfections and minor faults discovered after purchase, but the issue I am highlighting fundamentally affects its ability to function as a vehicle: It is incapable of conveying people to a destination.

 

The Consumer Rights Act 2015 requires dealers to supply goods of satisfactory quality and be fit for purpose. Whilst I fully accepted the caveats regarding the declared issue with the vehicle and the likelihood of other minor issues, it is clearly unroadworthy due to the defect described above and as such you are in breach of contract.

 

I am Legally entitled to reject the vehicle and to be reimbursed for its full purchase price of £600. As I reject the vehicle, I have ceased using it. I would be happy to either have you collect the vehicle, or I can return it to you, either of these options would need to be at a mutually acceptable time. As the vehicle was paid for in cash, I would prefer the reimbursement to be made in cash.

 

If you fail to reimburse me, I shall have no alternative but to issue a claim against you in the county court for recovery of the monies owed without further reference to you.

 

Yours ....

I did take some advise on the wording of the letter, and did feel like I was being a bit of an Internet lawyer about the whole thing, but if the guy had been upfront and honest about the car in the first place, the situation would never have arisen.

 

The stupidity of the situation was that I then took my £600 and bought a 20-year old Mercedes, which FTP'd several times on me within the first week of ownership. The difference there was that I knew exactly what I was buying and knew both what was wrong and how to fix it. (Duff O-Rings in the fuel system letting great gobs of air in)

 

The Merc was/is a far nicer car to drive than the Mundaneo too, but that's just a cheeky bonus.

[Dave_Q]

Here's my C8 off to its F8 M8, totally happy to accept less money for a man to turn up and take it away no hassle rather than even slightly risk the general public.

 

[rainagain]

What was wrong with it? I quite fancied a C8

[vaughant]

Because it was about 4.50 in the afternoon, and I needed a car to get me in to work in the morning. I (stupidly) believed him. I also didn't know of the specific issues with this engine as I was looking at buying *anything* that would get me mobile again..

 

I should also say that the car was cheap as it had a rattly DMF. He told me there was no comeback on that, and that was fine. I pressed him about any other significant issues (IE shit that matters, not poxy rubbish) and he stated everything else was fine. Which it wasn't

 

 

There are several caveats on the SOGA. I had done no more than about 50 miles in the car in total when I rejected it, and it went back to him with barely any more on it. The SOGA states you have to be reasonable about all aspects of the rejection, so anything utterly unreasonable will not be upheld by a court.

Fair play I've been in the same position only a tighter timescale is needed to get to work within the hour and a cheaper car but thankfully it turned out to be a good 'un and luckily I didn't actually pay for it until the next day so if it really was dire I had a kind of 24hr test-drive but to be fair it was fine and had been a great servant.

 

Certainly not without its faults but I've put a fair few hours into it yet not much money and she's been spot on, MOT time now then it's for sale most likely on here to a lucky* buyer.

 

Still, a £600 Spanish vag Derv with a years ticket can't be bad!!! Perfect wbod territory.

[Dave_Q]

What was wrong with it? I quite fancied a C8

MOT due end of July

Airbag light on (wiring issue - probably a cheap fix featuring hours of labour trying to find it)

Engine fault (antipollution fault on dash, limp mode, sometimes cutting out and refusing to restart - probably needs a high pressure pump)

Wandery steering - possibly needs a wishbone or 2 or something 

Even when not in limp mode, doesn't really accelerate much below 2000rpm (possibly turbo or EGR related, if you can even see them you're doing well)

It's a C8

22mpg town, 28ish on a run (2.2HDi)

 

Overall, I was planning to bin it unless it somehow passed it's MOT but then it started this cutting out shit and I need a car that goes. 

 

I paid £550 for it and it's probably worth nearly that still, if I spent £500 or so fixing the above list. 

 

As it is I just wanted it CUL8RD, probably could have got a few quid more than the £230 I got selling it as a car but then I would have risked them turning up and seeing it and offering me £14.29.

 

I would recommend one though, try to get a late 2.0HDi as the mpg is meant to be slightly better.

 

They are real cheap now as unless you do your own spannering, they're just not economical to fix, in fact really mine wasn't even if I were to devote the next few weekends to getting it through the test.

[vaughant]

It's been the same for as long as I can remember. When I used to deal (80s90s) it was always the cheap stuff that caused problems, the cars were fine, the buyers, not so much, In the end I fostered a relationship with another dealer who loved selling utter chod and floggend everything to him. Lost a few quid, but cheque (remember those?) in hand was the last I saw or heard from him until the next load of purchases.

 

I very nearly got done by trading standards because I sold a high spec BX that I'd taken back in p/x. It was okay but had problems.... nothing serious but annoying and it was destined for the auctions (before cheap cars man came on the scene). Some random came in with an absolute tale of woe about NEEDING a cheap car there and then and he wanted the BX. I told him it was unsuitable and tried to steer him towards a Fiesta or Escort also sat at the back of the lot which was a 'good' car but he wanted the BX. I left him alone, let him put it on the ramp (grief from mechanics of course - my way!) told him EVERYTHING I knew was wrong with it (lots) but he still wanted it.

 

Three weeks later nice man from trading standards preaching the letter of the law at me and generally giving me a very bad time. Fortunately, I had put everything on the receipt, the same receipt the buyer had 'lost' and so was in the clear. However, what really riled me was that there had been no contact from the buyer at all and everything he was complaining about was stuff he knew about. I was amzed at the lengths TS went to to try and get meL they even knew it had the interior froma different BX that was in a scrapyard in Exeter!

 

Refused to sell anything else cheap to anyone I didn't know or genuine traders after that. All buyers are liars!

See I've generally found the opposite of this but granted it was around 10/15 years ago I was doing it regularly. I found anything over a grand was harder to shift than anything under, especially anything around £5/600, seemed to fly out and I very rarely had people come back on it. I think though a lot of it was down to the fact that back then things like MK3 fiestas, Mk6 escorts, MK3 Astra/Corsa were generally reliable enough things that with a years ticket people were happy to use until it failed on something major like rust. A lot of chod nowadays will look solid but an abs module failing will write it off or an airbag light stuck on.

 

Having said that at the car auctions there's a Turkish bloke there that buys any Mk5 Astra that rolls thorough, usually about £300 a pop, he must have a market for them as he was there every week I was there.

 

I remember years ago the 1.7d estate MK3 was the easiest car to sell along with anything ford 1.8d provided it had a fresh ticket, Pas and the belts done. I was meticulous with doing the timing belts on them as the tensioners seemed to fail with alarming regularity. I worked for ford and the whole lot with all the bells and whistles was about £80 with my discount and the same to get it fitted, never had any issues with anyone I owned/sold. I know many a lad who bought from auction and ended up with a scrapper a month or so later.

[Floatylight]

Here's my C8 off to its F8 M8, totally happy to accept less money for a man to turn up and take it away no hassle rather than even slightly risk the general public.

 

I had one same year same colour, got rid just as clutch was slipping..

 

Sent from my Moto G (5) using Tapatalk

[SRi05]

As I've said on here before, I'll never buy or sell anything sub 1k unless it's on here. That end of the market just attracts straight up fucking nutjobs. Last car I sold on gumtree was an astra for 300 quid, the amount of wankers that got in touch with me was incredible. There was one weirdo who kept demanding my address so he could come and look at it, even after I'd agreed to sell it to someone else. Just refused to take no for an answer until he was told to fuck right off.

[rantingYoof]

It's an absolute minefield for sellers in the £100 - 1000 bracket and a minefield for buyers in the £2000-3000 bracket.

 

I am likely to be in both categories simultaneously in a couple of weeks (unless a friend helps me by taking on the S60) and this thread has made me realise that I'm not sure why I'm voluntarily doing that.

 

For what it's worth, dealers covering themselves on a £500 shed is fine. Dealers saying the same 'Taken in p/x no warranty given or implied' on a £2500 car can jog quite briskly into the sea.

 

The number of such 'caveats' I've seen on various cars on Autotrader recently while doing 'market research' is astounding. £2500 is a serious wad of change for the vast majority of people and if you're choosing to sell a car at that price, while you are certainly not obliged to MOT it and service it as long as you price it accordingly, there should be (in my opinion) an obligation for you to check for serious faults as vigilantly as you can.

[iainrcz]

I avoid too much idiocy by trading cars in.

Although after being offered £200 for my spotless 406 saloon as a trade in, which I later sold for £700 there are just as many piss takers work at garages. He said we've got bills to pay, I said so have I and fucking drove off.

 

I bought my RCZ from st Clements cars near clench Wharton. The geezer was decent to deal with.

He came straight out with a price for my 508 GT I was happy with and after a bit of toing and froing about a warranty I was

Quite happy with it all.

 

Sent from my VFD 710 using Tapatalk

[UltraWomble]

It's a C8

22mpg town, 28ish on a run (2.2HDi)

 

 

 

I would recommend one though, try to get a late 2.0HDi as the mpg is meant to be slightly better.

 

 

We have a 2007 2.0 HDi - does 39mpg round town and more on a run

 

It has however just shat its heater matrix requiring an expedition by Laura Croft into deep otherwise unexplored regions of the dash board to find and replace it.

 

One day I may tot up all the receipts for the car in our 8 years of ownership - I will however need a stiff drink when I do that.

The total spend on fuel alone has been £10,471.23 over 80K miles

[Dave_Q]

They claim 38mpg combined for the 2.2 on the official figures, mine was all stop start commuting but would still have expected to top 30mpg. As I said through I do reckon there was something wrong with the engine.

 

They are a viable DIY prospect (except for the injector/cambelt hilarity) with the knowledge and spares from the Facebook group, but tellingly not even anyone there offered to match the price from the scrapman for mine.

 

Its a shame really as it was a decent bus, had it been a tad less juicy I might have been tempted to save it.

 

As it is I will be saving about 50 quid a month in fuel alone driving the Multipla, so that rather swayed my decision to crush rather than fix.

[Aston Martin]

I picked up a bike today, listed at £60 and I got for £50.

 

She said she was also selling another bike, it a was listed at £50 and she said a guy messaged saying "I'll give you £25, if you deliver it for free."

[Talbot]

22mpg town, 28ish on a run (2.2HDi)

Something properly ronnied about that. A friend of mine has an '06 C8 2.2HDi, which I believe is basically identical and it manages an average 30mpg, with 35 being possible on a longer journey.

[New POD]

I picked up a bike today, listed at £60 and I got for £50.

 

She said she was also selling another bike, it a was listed at £50 and she said a guy messaged saying "I'll give you £25, if you deliver it for free."

I Put a broken bike on gum tree. free if you collect. bloke came on the train from Liverpool £5.75 return

Seemed surprised at how good the bike was

just needed a front wheel, seat and brake cables.

[Jim Bell]

Im a cunt when buying a car then I complain about cunts when Im selling a car.

[HMC]

I "dropped a bollock" (c. My neighbour Steve) when buying my current w124 as basically I did not caveat emptor by buying unseen. Hence the rear subframe on my estate is only held on by half the number of bolts it should have. My bad. Ignorance rather than negligence on the former owners part for not mentioning this I recon. I made an assumption about his level of w124 specific knowledge which I got wrong. It's a bit of a skill, especially with cheap stuff. Why is it at the price it's at? What does/ doesn't that reflect?

 

Tomorrow I find out how much it will cost to rectify this, and whether or not to bother and chalk it up to experience.