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Der Führerwagen is sold - Suggestions for replacement invited - Caution: No Diesels!

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#391 OFFLINE   Junkman

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 03:24 PM

Very fragile 5-speed auto.

 

What does that even mean?

That it won't survive your average hamfisted bumpkin with no feeling for anything whatsoever?

You know the type, you ride in a car with them and realise after two minutes why it's at the garage every week.

 

I blatantly refuse to accept that any gearbox that has survived over a quarter century and 140k miles is anywhere near "fragile".


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#392 OFFLINE   Eddie Honda

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 03:36 PM

I blatantly refuse to accept that any gearbox that has survived over a quarter century and 140k miles is anywhere near "fragile".


Challenge accepted. I will report back in 12 years and 26k miles and let you know if the Honda SWRA CVT is still functional or not. :)
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#393 OFFLINE   stormee

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 08:17 PM

Sorry chaps, both were sold last summer, the Avant to a Fulham based Canadian hipster carpenter who couldn't afford a W124 to take his artisan furniture to country fairs.

 

Best way of transporting artisan furniture, at least the car has style.


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#394 OFFLINE   Junkman

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 08:23 PM

I like this artsy fartsy furniture.

There. I said it.


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1979 Mobylette AV89............................................................running
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#395 OFFLINE   stormee

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 09:11 PM

I like this artsy fartsy furniture.

There. I said it.

Schönes Wood.


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#396 OFFLINE   The Reverend Bluejeans

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 09:13 PM

What does that even mean?

That it won't survive your average hamfisted bumpkin with no feeling for anything whatsoever?

You know the type, you ride in a car with them and realise after two minutes why it's at the garage every week.

 

I blatantly refuse to accept that any gearbox that has survived over a quarter century and 140k miles is anywhere near "fragile".

 

 

Also remember NOT to piss around changing gearbox oil. Sealed for life means just that - leave it alone, just top it up as and when. That A8 is too shoddy really but for a couple of hundred quid or so (scrap value) it would be an entertaining beast until it did shit itself. That could be one week or two years. Old cars can surprise you by just keeping going but the minute you start doing this 'maintenance' thing or 'refreshing' (what a fucking stupid phrase) the car knows it has you over a barrel. A car is your servant, not vice versa. Repair it when it needs it, not before.


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#397 OFFLINE   Junkman

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 09:52 PM

I would really enjoy that gopping pile of newfangled tosh grenading right under my arse.


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#398 OFFLINE   stormee

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 10:07 PM

 Old cars can surprise you by just keeping going but the minute you start doing this 'maintenance' thing or 'refreshing' (what a fucking stupid phrase) the car knows it has you over a barrel. A car is your servant, not vice versa. Repair it when it needs it, not before.

That was exactly the attitude towards my E34! Bought in need of a car for 800€ with some recent extensive repair list done I decided to drive as it was. Lacquer peel galore, unknown milage, some rost but seemed solid. That thing lasted almost 4 more years without major things going wrong. On the other hand, they are really thankful cars.


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#399 OFFLINE   The Reverend Bluejeans

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 07:50 AM

That was exactly the attitude towards my E34! Bought in need of a car for 800€ with some recent extensive repair list done I decided to drive as it was. Lacquer peel galore, unknown milage, some rost but seemed solid. That thing lasted almost 4 more years without major things going wrong. On the other hand, they are really thankful cars.

 

 

And my 323i Auto. I gave it a full service when it arrived. Howling PAS pump? Secondhand one from a 318i with the brackets swapped over. Sorted.

 

Oil? Up to the level and still fairly clean. Sorted.

 

Coolant? Yep, plenty of that. 

 

Underside check? Can't see any major oil leaks. Plenty of rust though. Fuck it.

 

I must check the tyre pressures though.


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#400 OFFLINE   Schaefft

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 11:51 AM

What does that even mean?
That it won't survive your average hamfisted bumpkin with no feeling for anything whatsoever?
You know the type, you ride in a car with them and realise after two minutes why it's at the garage every week.
 
I blatantly refuse to accept that any gearbox that has survived over a quarter century and 140k miles is anywhere near "fragile".

It basically means that at this point in life, every automatic D2 A8/S8 will have a major transmission failure (specifics can be found online) during your ownership if it hasn't received a remanufactured one by now, or a had the ATF changed somewhat regularly in recent years. Certain components have an expected lifespan that is now used up on most of them, depending on how they were treated by the previous owners. Obviously transmissions in V8 cars struggle more and die sooner than those of the lower spec A8s with lower torque numbers. Many of the cheap driveable ones are probably unloaded for cheap because the first symptoms for transmission failure are becoming noticeable on them.

Also remember NOT to piss around changing gearbox oil. Sealed for life means just that - leave it alone, just top it up as and when. That A8 is too shoddy really but for a couple of hundred quid or so (scrap value) it would be an entertaining beast until it did shit itself. That could be one week or two years. Old cars can surprise you by just keeping going but the minute you start doing this 'maintenance' thing or 'refreshing' (what a fucking stupid phrase) the car knows it has you over a barrel. A car is your servant, not vice versa. Repair it when it needs it, not before.

That is not very good advise, especially with a car like the A8 that doesnt have a dipstick for its transmission. Sealed for life only means that its good for the lifespan the manufacturer intends the vehicle to have (which seems to be around 100k miles nowadays). Do the ATF change early enough and don't screw it up, and you'll extend the lifespan of every mechanical component significantly, unless its already too late. Of course that doesnt apply if you are someone who doesnt give a damn about the mechanical health of your car. Which is usually the case for the typical D2 A8 owners now.
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#401 OFFLINE   Junkman

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 12:34 PM

Well the latter is definitely applying to me. On a car like this I'd happily play the good old gearbox (and cambelt, while I'm at it) roulette,

since I fail to see a single reason why this shit shouldn't be relegated to the dungheap of automotive history later than absolutely necessary.


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#402 OFFLINE   The Reverend Bluejeans

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 01:16 PM


That is not very good advise, especially with a car like the A8 that doesnt have a dipstick for its transmission. Sealed for life only means that its good for the lifespan the manufacturer intends the vehicle to have (which seems to be around 100k miles nowadays). 

 

 

Well yes and no. I did advocate checking the oil level but on a 1000 quid car, £200 worth of oil and a filter screen? The whole car is coming to the end of its life - my 323iA has done 197'000 miles and the gearbox oil has never been changed. Nor will it ever be. Neither has the oil in 99.987654478% of old BMW's with the ZF 5HP. I take the view that when a car is teetering on the edge of scrap value, leave it alone.

 

As an automatic box specialist said to me once; "the oil is black because it's full of contamination of the clutches. It's on it's last legs". He also said that new oil in an old autobox is about the worst thing you can do. Old BMW autos whine like a bastard afterwards.

 

Old cars die eventually; you could spend 200 quid changing the gearbox oil and filter on an A8 and next week, the front diff goes bang or it drops a valve. It's pointless trying to extend the life of a car like this.


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#403 OFFLINE   artdjones

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 01:20 PM

I suppose the best thing to do is dip the box when buying .If the oil is black,don't buy.And if the car has no dipstick, don't buy.
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#404 OFFLINE   The Reverend Bluejeans

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 01:30 PM

If the box works okay, then it's okay. I haven't check the oil on mine but it's as dry as a Nun's nasties so I've no reason to suspect the level is down (much).


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#405 OFFLINE   Schaefft

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 05:24 PM

Well yes and no. I did advocate checking the oil level but on a 1000 quid car, £200 worth of oil and a filter screen? The whole car is coming to the end of its life - my 323iA has done 197'000 miles and the gearbox oil has never been changed. Nor will it ever be. Neither has the oil in 99.987654478% of old BMW's with the ZF 5HP. I take the view that when a car is teetering on the edge of scrap value, leave it alone.
 
As an automatic box specialist said to me once; "the oil is black because it's full of contamination of the clutches. It's on it's last legs". He also said that new oil in an old autobox is about the worst thing you can do. Old BMW autos whine like a bastard afterwards.
 
Old cars die eventually; you could spend 200 quid changing the gearbox oil and filter on an A8 and next week, the front diff goes bang or it drops a valve. It's pointless trying to extend the life of a car like this.

Granted, my approach to buying cars is a different one, and we are still on Autoshite. But 95% of the time I buy cars to keep them long term, because I wanted this or that car for a very long time. That means whatever needs to be done to preserve it as long as possible will get done, no matter what its worth right now (unless its a 4-figure job for a single repair, then its fucked and should be sold asap/not bought in the first place).

All that applies even more when I know that it's a rare model that will become somewhat sought after in a not too distant future. The E38 is a great example there. People that didnt invest in that kind of maintenance basically scrapped their cars years ago, the best ones that were cared for are now clearly rising in value. Same for the E39, I see posts of dead auto boxes daily. All that probably won't apply to an automatic 323i anytime soon but if the A8 above was an S8 (or some individual/rare color 4.2 A8), not investing in proper maintenance would be the wrong way to go. Or its just the wrong car for what you are looking for.
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#406 OFFLINE   stormee

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 08:36 PM

If the box works okay, then it's okay. I haven't check the oil on mine but it's as dry as a Nun's nasties so I've no reason to suspect the level is down (much).

That is a good sign. A friend of mine neglected the ATF-level in a 525e and the box died eventually. Seemed not easy to replace the box so he gave up. But the E28 eta automatic is a wonderful combo! Some don't even have a rev counter as it is almost pointless at these low rev level. Drove said car several times and it was soo relaxing!


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#407 OFFLINE   The Reverend Bluejeans

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 10:17 PM

Granted, my approach to buying cars is a different one, and we are still on Autoshite. But 95% of the time I buy cars to keep them long term, because I wanted this or that car for a very long time. That means whatever needs to be done to preserve it as long as possible will get done, no matter what its worth right now (unless its a 4-figure job for a single repair, then its fucked and should be sold asap/not bought in the first place).

All that applies even more when I know that it's a rare model that will become somewhat sought after in a not too distant future. The E38 is a great example there. People that didnt invest in that kind of maintenance basically scrapped their cars years ago, the best ones that were cared for are now clearly rising in value. Same for the E39, I see posts of dead auto boxes daily. All that probably won't apply to an automatic 323i anytime soon but if the A8 above was an S8 (or some individual/rare color 4.2 A8), not investing in proper maintenance would be the wrong way to go. Or its just the wrong car for what you are looking for.

 

 

Hmmm. Thing is, this box has lasted 190'000+ miles on the factory oil. A mate's 1997 528iA has done over 200k and my own record is 234'000 on a 1992 320i with the 5HP but on Dexron ATF that needed changing every Inspection 2, but which clearly hadn't. How long are they meant to last? Could they do any better? It will die eventually of course. 

 

E39 boxes - basically post 1998 ones - have the same problems as the E46 where failure is caused by the (cheaper cast metal, not forged steel) brake drum failing through fatigue and the spring ring coming adrift - no pressure on the friction discs, no drive. Normally reverse but often forwards. On the GM boxes (diesels) the main issue is the pressure control solenoid for the torque converter failing. This is there to soften the take up of the converter lock up clutch that unlike the old 4HP, engages and disengages between each gearshift to make it really smooth. The converter than hammers itself to death and the friction material gets around the gearbox and ruins it. In short, box failure is generally a breakage as opposed to plain old wearing out.

 

But you're right - it can't hurt to change the oil every 50'000 miles and ZF themselves recommend it at 100'000 but it's surprising how long the old 5HP units last. The longlife oil is good shit! 


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#408 OFFLINE   forddeliveryboy

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 10:22 PM

The whole 'why bother with servicing' approach is one reason why we've been treated to cars which wear out prematurely and are uneconomical to repair.
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#409 OFFLINE   stormee

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 10:49 PM

The whole 'why bother with servicing' approach is one reason why we've been treated to cars which wear out prematurely and are uneconomical to repair.

No, can't agree. This 'why bother/see how long it lasts' attitude is towards already dying cars which normally would have been away from the road. There are minor cheap repairs which rescue the car on the road again for a long time and there are foreseeable major things may go wrong because age/neglect/wear out. You don't invest in big repairs on a car which you don't want to restore to show condition, we talk about daily drivers for a budget.


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#410 OFFLINE   Junkman

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 11:12 PM

Everything suggested hitherto - and I really do appreciate that, keep them coming - is being pondered for being the least annoying,

but none of them are what raises my heartbeat.

 

I have never really looked at post 1986 cars until now and now that I do, I'm aghast to what degree anything that's remotely fun, desirable

or original has been carefully omitted. I always knew this newfangled tosh is joyless, little did I know bleak to what degree it is.

 

Sadly right now all I can afford is a conveyance similar to a real car that can be coaxed into service until I re-enabled myself  to buy

something decent.

Then it's either going to be roffled, or bridged. I have zero interest in preserving any of the turds I'd currently be able to buy.


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#411 OFFLINE   garethj

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Posted 15 June 2018 - 05:32 AM

There is an awful lot of joyless shit around, I agree completely.  There's stuff which you can use and ignore (my Volvo V70 is a good example of this) but stuff to love is thin on the ground.

 

Owners speak highly of Subarus although I think most have leather.  A few engine choices, I think the Legacy is better looking than the usual Impreza

https://www.ebay.co....NsAAOSwVxtbH5G0

 

4WD grip is excellent

s-l600.jpg


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The Porsche 928 is terrifying, yet oddly alluring. It's like spending the night with that Jo Frost Supernanny woman


#412 OFFLINE   garethj

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Posted 15 June 2018 - 05:43 AM

If you want to try being anonymous you could try one of these Rav 4s.  Available with cloth and auto, they're the best one to drive of all the soft roaders.

 

https://www.ebay.co....bIAAOSwKDRbCbIe

 

s-l600.jpg


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#413 OFFLINE   BorniteIdentity

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Posted 15 June 2018 - 07:44 AM

This is definitely 'client facing compliant'.

 

You could definitely get a deal on it seeing as it doesn't idle.  Might even be something simple like an OVP relay or whatever.

 

IMG_7953_zps1a4gqzcl.jpg

 

 

 

The interior is the sine qua non of any fine motor conveyance, and this - I believe - fulfills all criteria.

 

IMG_7955_zpsgucdwzjn.jpg

 

 

 

Lovely engine, you'll get 27mpg.  £1000.


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#414 OFFLINE   D Spares & Tyres

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Posted 15 June 2018 - 08:44 AM

Can't agree on that. S class Benz only good for client compliant roles of you are selling drugs or prostitutes.

Plus they are only comfortable if you have a big fat comfortable arse. Under that fabric there is just wood.
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#415 OFFLINE   NorfolkNWeigh

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Posted 15 June 2018 - 08:48 AM

Can't agree on that. S class Benz only good for client compliant roles of you are selling drugs or prostitutes.
Plus they are only comfortable if you have a big fat comfortable arse. Under that fabric there is just wood.


I'm not sure Junkman has ever specified what he does for a job...
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#416 OFFLINE   cort16

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Posted 15 June 2018 - 09:17 AM

This s class on the eBay thread looks alright

https://www.gumtree....s320/1302519441
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I estimate this car needs £3000 maybe £4000 spending on it to get it rite and when this is done it will be wotrth about £1500!!


#417 OFFLINE   The Reverend Bluejeans

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Posted 15 June 2018 - 03:34 PM

It's a W126. It's a no from me.

 

And 300SE with cloth for uber misery. 


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#418 OFFLINE   BorniteIdentity

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Posted 15 June 2018 - 03:56 PM

It's a W126. It's a no from me.

And 300SE with cloth for uber misery.

Isn’t that velour? It looks ribbed for extra pleasure.

Edit. You’re right. The w126 velour is sumptuous in the extreme. This is just fancy cloth work.

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#419 OFFLINE   Junkman

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Posted 15 June 2018 - 08:15 PM

Owners speak highly of Subarus although I think most are Japanese.


FTFY

And yes, that's a deal breaker.


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#420 OFFLINE   Junkman

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Posted 15 June 2018 - 08:17 PM

I'm not sure Junkman has ever specified what he does for a job...

 

 

Selling drugs and prostitutes. And some contract work.

 

Nah, seriously, I'm a fucking suit.


1967 Renault 16 GL............................................now with floor and MoT

1979 Mobylette AV89............................................................running
1997 Peugeot 405 2.0 Executive Estate.................now with aircon and brakes






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