Sold Der Führerwagen is FINALLY sold - Suggestions for replacement invited - Caution: No Diesels!

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

That was exactly the attitude towards my E34! Bought in need of a car for 800€ with some recent extensive repair list done I decided to drive as it was. Lacquer peel galore, unknown milage, some rost but seemed solid. That thing lasted almost 4 more years without major things going wrong. On the other hand, they are really thankful cars.

 

 

And my 323i Auto. I gave it a full service when it arrived. Howling PAS pump? Secondhand one from a 318i with the brackets swapped over. Sorted.

 

Oil? Up to the level and still fairly clean. Sorted.

 

Coolant? Yep, plenty of that. 

 

Underside check? Can't see any major oil leaks. Plenty of rust though. Fuck it.

 

I must check the tyre pressures though.

[Schaefft]

What does that even mean?

That it won't survive your average hamfisted bumpkin with no feeling for anything whatsoever?

You know the type, you ride in a car with them and realise after two minutes why it's at the garage every week.

 

I blatantly refuse to accept that any gearbox that has survived over a quarter century and 140k miles is anywhere near "fragile".

It basically means that at this point in life, every automatic D2 A8/S8 will have a major transmission failure (specifics can be found online) during your ownership if it hasn't received a remanufactured one by now, or a had the ATF changed somewhat regularly in recent years. Certain components have an expected lifespan that is now used up on most of them, depending on how they were treated by the previous owners. Obviously transmissions in V8 cars struggle more and die sooner than those of the lower spec A8s with lower torque numbers. Many of the cheap driveable ones are probably unloaded for cheap because the first symptoms for transmission failure are becoming noticeable on them.

 

Also remember NOT to piss around changing gearbox oil. Sealed for life means just that - leave it alone, just top it up as and when. That A8 is too shoddy really but for a couple of hundred quid or so (scrap value) it would be an entertaining beast until it did shit itself. That could be one week or two years. Old cars can surprise you by just keeping going but the minute you start doing this 'maintenance' thing or 'refreshing' (what a fucking stupid phrase) the car knows it has you over a barrel. A car is your servant, not vice versa. Repair it when it needs it, not before.

That is not very good advise, especially with a car like the A8 that doesnt have a dipstick for its transmission. Sealed for life only means that its good for the lifespan the manufacturer intends the vehicle to have (which seems to be around 100k miles nowadays). Do the ATF change early enough and don't screw it up, and you'll extend the lifespan of every mechanical component significantly, unless its already too late. Of course that doesnt apply if you are someone who doesnt give a damn about the mechanical health of your car. Which is usually the case for the typical D2 A8 owners now.

[Junkman]

Well the latter is definitely applying to me. On a car like this I'd happily play the good old gearbox (and cambelt, while I'm at it) roulette,

since I fail to see a single reason why this shit shouldn't be relegated to the dungheap of automotive history later than absolutely necessary.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

 

That is not very good advise, especially with a car like the A8 that doesnt have a dipstick for its transmission. Sealed for life only means that its good for the lifespan the manufacturer intends the vehicle to have (which seems to be around 100k miles nowadays). 

 

 

Well yes and no. I did advocate checking the oil level but on a 1000 quid car, £200 worth of oil and a filter screen? The whole car is coming to the end of its life - my 323iA has done 197'000 miles and the gearbox oil has never been changed. Nor will it ever be. Neither has the oil in 99.987654478% of old BMW's with the ZF 5HP. I take the view that when a car is teetering on the edge of scrap value, leave it alone.

 

As an automatic box specialist said to me once; "the oil is black because it's full of contamination of the clutches. It's on it's last legs". He also said that new oil in an old autobox is about the worst thing you can do. Old BMW autos whine like a bastard afterwards.

 

Old cars die eventually; you could spend 200 quid changing the gearbox oil and filter on an A8 and next week, the front diff goes bang or it drops a valve. It's pointless trying to extend the life of a car like this.

[artdjones]

I suppose the best thing to do is dip the box when buying .If the oil is black,don't buy.And if the car has no dipstick, don't buy.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

If the box works okay, then it's okay. I haven't check the oil on mine but it's as dry as a Nun's nasties so I've no reason to suspect the level is down (much).

[Schaefft]

Well yes and no. I did advocate checking the oil level but on a 1000 quid car, £200 worth of oil and a filter screen? The whole car is coming to the end of its life - my 323iA has done 197'000 miles and the gearbox oil has never been changed. Nor will it ever be. Neither has the oil in 99.987654478% of old BMW's with the ZF 5HP. I take the view that when a car is teetering on the edge of scrap value, leave it alone.

 

As an automatic box specialist said to me once; "the oil is black because it's full of contamination of the clutches. It's on it's last legs". He also said that new oil in an old autobox is about the worst thing you can do. Old BMW autos whine like a bastard afterwards.

 

Old cars die eventually; you could spend 200 quid changing the gearbox oil and filter on an A8 and next week, the front diff goes bang or it drops a valve. It's pointless trying to extend the life of a car like this.

Granted, my approach to buying cars is a different one, and we are still on Autoshite. But 95% of the time I buy cars to keep them long term, because I wanted this or that car for a very long time. That means whatever needs to be done to preserve it as long as possible will get done, no matter what its worth right now (unless its a 4-figure job for a single repair, then its fucked and should be sold asap/not bought in the first place).

 

All that applies even more when I know that it's a rare model that will become somewhat sought after in a not too distant future. The E38 is a great example there. People that didnt invest in that kind of maintenance basically scrapped their cars years ago, the best ones that were cared for are now clearly rising in value. Same for the E39, I see posts of dead auto boxes daily. All that probably won't apply to an automatic 323i anytime soon but if the A8 above was an S8 (or some individual/rare color 4.2 A8), not investing in proper maintenance would be the wrong way to go. Or its just the wrong car for what you are looking for.

[stormee]

If the box works okay, then it's okay. I haven't check the oil on mine but it's as dry as a Nun's nasties so I've no reason to suspect the level is down (much).

That is a good sign. A friend of mine neglected the ATF-level in a 525e and the box died eventually. Seemed not easy to replace the box so he gave up. But the E28 eta automatic is a wonderful combo! Some don't even have a rev counter as it is almost pointless at these low rev level. Drove said car several times and it was soo relaxing!

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

Granted, my approach to buying cars is a different one, and we are still on Autoshite. But 95% of the time I buy cars to keep them long term, because I wanted this or that car for a very long time. That means whatever needs to be done to preserve it as long as possible will get done, no matter what its worth right now (unless its a 4-figure job for a single repair, then its fucked and should be sold asap/not bought in the first place).

 

All that applies even more when I know that it's a rare model that will become somewhat sought after in a not too distant future. The E38 is a great example there. People that didnt invest in that kind of maintenance basically scrapped their cars years ago, the best ones that were cared for are now clearly rising in value. Same for the E39, I see posts of dead auto boxes daily. All that probably won't apply to an automatic 323i anytime soon but if the A8 above was an S8 (or some individual/rare color 4.2 A8), not investing in proper maintenance would be the wrong way to go. Or its just the wrong car for what you are looking for.

 

 

Hmmm. Thing is, this box has lasted 190'000+ miles on the factory oil. A mate's 1997 528iA has done over 200k and my own record is 234'000 on a 1992 320i with the 5HP but on Dexron ATF that needed changing every Inspection 2, but which clearly hadn't. How long are they meant to last? Could they do any better? It will die eventually of course. 

 

E39 boxes - basically post 1998 ones - have the same problems as the E46 where failure is caused by the (cheaper cast metal, not forged steel) brake drum failing through fatigue and the spring ring coming adrift - no pressure on the friction discs, no drive. Normally reverse but often forwards. On the GM boxes (diesels) the main issue is the pressure control solenoid for the torque converter failing. This is there to soften the take up of the converter lock up clutch that unlike the old 4HP, engages and disengages between each gearshift to make it really smooth. The converter than hammers itself to death and the friction material gets around the gearbox and ruins it. In short, box failure is generally a breakage as opposed to plain old wearing out.

 

But you're right - it can't hurt to change the oil every 50'000 miles and ZF themselves recommend it at 100'000 but it's surprising how long the old 5HP units last. The longlife oil is good shit! 

[forddeliveryboy]

The whole 'why bother with servicing' approach is one reason why we've been treated to cars which wear out prematurely and are uneconomical to repair.

[stormee]

The whole 'why bother with servicing' approach is one reason why we've been treated to cars which wear out prematurely and are uneconomical to repair.

No, can't agree. This 'why bother/see how long it lasts' attitude is towards already dying cars which normally would have been away from the road. There are minor cheap repairs which rescue the car on the road again for a long time and there are foreseeable major things may go wrong because age/neglect/wear out. You don't invest in big repairs on a car which you don't want to restore to show condition, we talk about daily drivers for a budget.

[Junkman]

Everything suggested hitherto - and I really do appreciate that, keep them coming - is being pondered for being the least annoying,

but none of them are what raises my heartbeat.

 

I have never really looked at post 1986 cars until now and now that I do, I'm aghast to what degree anything that's remotely fun, desirable

or original has been carefully omitted. I always knew this newfangled tosh is joyless, little did I know bleak to what degree it is.

 

Sadly right now all I can afford is a conveyance similar to a real car that can be coaxed into service until I re-enabled myself  to buy

something decent.

Then it's either going to be roffled, or bridged. I have zero interest in preserving any of the turds I'd currently be able to buy.

[garethj]

There is an awful lot of joyless shit around, I agree completely.  There's stuff which you can use and ignore (my Volvo V70 is a good example of this) but stuff to love is thin on the ground.

 

Owners speak highly of Subarus although I think most have leather.  A few engine choices, I think the Legacy is better looking than the usual Impreza

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SUBARU-LEGACY-ESTATE-3-0-RN-AUTO/132660315181?hash=item1ee32bc42d:g:1NsAAOSwVxtbH5G0

 

4WD grip is excellent

[garethj]

If you want to try being anonymous you could try one of these Rav 4s.  Available with cloth and auto, they're the best one to drive of all the soft roaders.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Toyota-Rav-4-petrol/183269927433?hash=item2aabbd2a09:g:TbIAAOSwKDRbCbIe

 

[BorniteIdentity]

This is definitely 'client facing compliant'.

 

You could definitely get a deal on it seeing as it doesn't idle.  Might even be something simple like an OVP relay or whatever.

 

 

 

 

The interior is the sine qua non of any fine motor conveyance, and this - I believe - fulfills all criteria.

 

 

 

 

Lovely engine, you'll get 27mpg.  £1000.

[D Spares & Tyres]

Can't agree on that. S class Benz only good for client compliant roles of you are selling drugs or prostitutes.

 

Plus they are only comfortable if you have a big fat comfortable arse. Under that fabric there is just wood.

[NorfolkNWeigh]

Can't agree on that. S class Benz only good for client compliant roles of you are selling drugs or prostitutes.

Plus they are only comfortable if you have a big fat comfortable arse. Under that fabric there is just wood.

I'm not sure Junkman has ever specified what he does for a job...

[cort16]

This s class on the eBay thread looks alright

 

https://www.gumtree.com/p/mercedes-benz/mercedes-s320/1302519441

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

It's a W126. It's a no from me.

 

And 300SE with cloth for uber misery. 

[BorniteIdentity]

It's a W126. It's a no from me.

 

And 300SE with cloth for uber misery.

Isn’t that velour? It looks ribbed for extra pleasure.

 

Edit. You’re right. The w126 velour is sumptuous in the extreme. This is just fancy cloth work.

[Junkman]

Owners speak highly of Subarus although I think most are Japanese.

FTFY

 

And yes, that's a deal breaker.

[Junkman]

I'm not sure Junkman has ever specified what he does for a job...

 

 

Selling drugs and prostitutes. And some contract work.

 

Nah, seriously, I'm a fucking suit.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

Isn’t that velour? It looks ribbed for extra pleasure.

 

Edit. You’re right. The w126 velour is sumptuous in the extreme. This is just fancy cloth work.

 

 

It's a 300SE though. I still recall the disappointment I felt when driving the sorry turd back in 1995 when I sold cars for a Mitsubishi main dealer. The 24v Sigma was, in every conceivable way, a vastly superior vehicle. In fact the Sigma was superior to a lot of cars back then. But it was a Mitsutoshi, therefore couldn't possibly be better than a Merc, BMW or an Audi 100. I think they sold about three.

[Schaefft]

It's a 300SE though. I still recall the disappointment I felt when driving the sorry turd back in 1995 when I sold cars for a Mitsubishi main dealer. The 24v Sigma was, in every conceivable way, a vastly superior vehicle. In fact the Sigma was superior to a lot of cars back then. But it was a Mitsutoshi, therefore couldn't possibly be better than a Merc, BMW or an Audi 100. I think they sold about three.

I almost bought a 300 quid Sigma 3.0 24V that was parked in a bush for 10 years. Maybe I really should have done that.

 

EDIT: I have now reactivated my search alerts...

[Guest VicN]

I'm not sure Junkman has ever specified what he does for a job...

Nor how fat his arse is.

[Brodders]

Once again the eBay tat thread has saved the day. Large saloon, with auto box, velour, 6 cylinders and demeanor which still cuts mustard in the corporate car park today.

 

Currently at £500 with 18 hours to go, which will possibly leave enough money to paint over the rust and find out what "some TLC" constitutes.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VAUXHALL-SENATOR/153059607846?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908105057%26meid%3Dc8a48f745d2c416f947690491ebbf6aa%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D15%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D192572117454%26itm%3D153059607846&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3Ac94e9b6d-7350-11e8-89c0-74dbd180eab9%7Cparentrq%3A154424061640add882bd722afff38bb2%7Ciid%3A1

[Junkman]

I had one of those in 24v CD flavour.

It was so woefully shit that I blatantly refuse to ever buy another.

[RobT]

Search complete.

 

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Renault-GTS-1986-25-Auto-/332686885845?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368

 

Correct gearbox with a years ticket, although it'll no doubt break well before then.

 

Clients who object to it aren't worthy of your business...

[They_all_do_that_sir]

Auto V6 vel satins? Unfortunately cow seats but otherwise surely a modern that has a bit of imagination?

 

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F173368828634

 

Sent from my F3211 using Tapatalk

[Talbot]

senator

Did these things seriously only have a *3* speed auto? I'd love one, but only with a spanish gearbox.

 

Anyway... has one of these been considered:

 

 

Fits all criteria, and can give your 405 an inferiority complex.