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307SW spongy brakes :(

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180 replies to this topic

#151 ONLINE   rainagain

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Posted 22 February 2019 - 10:33 AM

As this was so much fun installing last time, I decided to go for the nuclear option.

IMG_4391.JPG

 

Installing this was the proverbial piece of piss once I had the old bush removed. I'm in two minds about removing the washers that come with the bush, I read it reduces the vibration in the cabin which I now have but I'm worried it'll bring back the engine moving around.

IMG_4396 (Edited).JPG



#152 OFFLINE   red5

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Posted 22 February 2019 - 10:33 AM

Is that bush (the failed one) aligned correctly - ie the voids in the right place? Or has it failed because cheap/another failure elsewhere?


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#153 ONLINE   rainagain

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Posted 22 February 2019 - 10:36 AM

Is that bush (the failed one) aligned correctly - ie the voids in the right place? Or has it failed because cheap/another failure elsewhere?

 

I aligned the voids the same as the old one, I think it was just a cheap ebay bush, as the old one had just gone soft not broken up.


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#154 OFFLINE   tooSavvy

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Posted 22 February 2019 - 08:10 PM

FWIW... I used marine sealer to 'beef up' a S/H engine stabilising bush in ToMM.

The original was flailing around and the replacement was showing cracking (@25yr old.. lolz) but the fix is 100% sorted and I now really feel the bite when I launch :)

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#155 ONLINE   rainagain

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Posted 11 March 2019 - 08:48 AM

When I changed the rear discs and pads I also did a partial fluid change by bleeding fluid through the rear calipers as the fluid looked very dark in the resevoir. I used a Gunson pressure bleed kit to do this, the master cylinder was never allowed to run dry. Sadly after doing this the brakes felt worse.
 
This weekend I hooked up the pressure bleed kit again and ran the amount of fluid shown in the jar out of each caliper but still the pedal feels spongy.
 
With the engine off I can pump the brakes until it feels like I'm standing on a big spring, you can never push it to the floor with constant pressure so I'm assuming the master cylinder is ok? With the engine on, putting a constant pressure on the pedal causes it to slowly sink to almost the floor although I've read this might be due to the ACS which mine has.
 
I'm thinking there must be some air stick somewhere, but where? I read it might be in the ABS unit but others have said this is unlikely unless it was allowed to run dry. 
 
Anyone got any idea what the problem is?

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#156 ONLINE   snagglepuss

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Posted 11 March 2019 - 10:06 AM

Just some thoughts

 

Can air be getting in somewhere?

Have you checked the tightness of hoses into calipers?

Checked the hoses for signs of swelling?

Missing copper washers from somewhere? 

 

I had air in the lancer brakes till NJGleeds spotted that I had done the caliper hoses up tight enough. 


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#157 OFFLINE   mrbenn

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Posted 11 March 2019 - 10:11 AM

Are the seals on the pressure bleeder sound? Have you tried bleeding manually, or even gravity bleeding?

 

Is there something you need to do to adjust the handbrake having done the brake work?



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#158 ONLINE   rainagain

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Posted 11 March 2019 - 10:35 AM

Just some thoughts

 

Can air be getting in somewhere? - not sure 

Have you checked the tightness of hoses into calipers? - there's no leaks so I'm assuming I'm ok here, also I didn't disturb them

Checked the hoses for signs of swelling? - I'll try and get my dad to stamp on them whilst I check underneath

Missing copper washers from somewhere?  - there's no leaks so I'm assuming I'm ok here

 

I had air in the lancer brakes till NJGleeds spotted that I had done the caliper hoses up tight enough. - didn't fluid leak out?



#159 ONLINE   rainagain

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Posted 11 March 2019 - 10:37 AM

Are the seals on the pressure bleeder sound? - I hooked it up with no fluid to check for leaks before I filled the bottle with fluid to bleed it

Have you tried bleeding manually, or even gravity bleeding? - I think I'll give manual bleeding a try

 

Is there something you need to do to adjust the handbrake having done the brake work? - not that I know of, I think if it was out of adjustment the pedal would just have a long pedal rather than being spongy 


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#160 ONLINE   snagglepuss

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Posted 11 March 2019 - 11:18 AM

No fluid leaked out - It was more air getting in. 


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#161 OFFLINE   pauldoubleyou

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Posted 11 March 2019 - 12:09 PM

I had this with my V40, which unfortunately for me I couldnt use the gunson on as the master cylinder had a stupid take off for the clutch. This meant as soon as i pressurised it with the eazibleed it would piss brake fluid everywhere. 

 

Anyway, i digress. I did one caliper on the Volvo and bled the old fashioned way - never let the master cylinder run dry etc etc and after i was done it was constantly shit. I just couldnt rectify it. I spent about two days rebleeding the caliper and got nowhere. 

 

someone suggested that air might have got into the other calipers lines somehow, i scoffed as i didnt see it possible. Bled the front left caliper (there is a bleed sequence for each car somewhere) as this was the first one and it cleared it straight away. 

 

I would suggest air has definitely snuck into the system from somewhere. I was paranoid it was in the ABS unit too, which can happen, but all that happens there if it does is that air from one line can apparently get into the other lines. 

 

My advice? Bleed in sequence like a champion but use the old fashioned way. You could also find that the gunson is introducing air somehow, maybe through the seals between the master cylinder and the reservoir?



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#162 OFFLINE   mrbenn

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Posted 11 March 2019 - 12:26 PM

If you wanted to bleed the ABS pump in order to remove it from your enquiries, one trick is find a gravel car park (or similar) and brake hard enough to activate the ABS a few times. On some cars this helps with clearing air from the pump.



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#163 ONLINE   rainagain

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Posted 11 March 2019 - 12:42 PM

Thanks for the replies everyone, I think I have a plan for the win:

 

1. Leave pedal jammed down overnight

2. find gravel/loose surface and get ABS to kick in a few times

3. Clean up front bleed nipples as they look like extras from the Titanic

4. bleed in sequence using the old fashioned way.


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#164 ONLINE   320touring

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Posted 11 March 2019 - 12:45 PM

Int he case of my Clio 172, the car needs to be running to bleed it properly if there is air in the ABS pump.

Bleeding whilst running and a few gravel carpark ABS pump cyclings got me an acceptable pedal eventually
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#165 ONLINE   rainagain

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Posted 11 March 2019 - 12:46 PM

Int he case of my Clio 172, the car needs to be running to bleed it properly if there is air in the ABS pump.

Bleeding whilst running and a few gravel carpark ABS pump cyclings got me an acceptable pedal eventually

 

I've never heard of that before having to have the engine running, does sound like a french thing though!



#166 ONLINE   320touring

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Posted 11 March 2019 - 12:50 PM

I've never heard of that before having to have the engine running, does sound like a french thing though!


Neither had I.. on my old Octavia, you could use the VAG software to cycle the ABS pump for precisely this purpose..
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#167 OFFLINE   sierraman

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Posted 11 March 2019 - 12:56 PM

I’m assuming the clutch is hydraulic here, could you in some way have managed to get air into that system?

#168 ONLINE   rainagain

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Posted 11 March 2019 - 01:06 PM

I’m assuming the clutch is hydraulic here, could you in some way have managed to get air into that system?

 

The clutch is hydraulic but I've not done any work anywhere near it.



#169 ONLINE   320touring

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Posted 11 March 2019 - 01:10 PM

The clutch is hydraulic but I've not done any work anywhere near it.


Does it share a fluid reservoir with the brakes though?
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#170 ONLINE   rainagain

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Posted 11 March 2019 - 02:10 PM

Does it share a fluid reservoir with the brakes though?

 

Yes



#171 OFFLINE   sierraman

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Posted 11 March 2019 - 02:21 PM

Does it share a fluid reservoir with the brakes though?


Usually the take off for the clutch of the master cylinder is shared is higher so if you lose brake fluid the clutch will go first. I’d check that by some way or other you haven’t got air in the system that way. Worth bleeding it I’d say.
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#172 ONLINE   rainagain

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Posted 11 March 2019 - 06:43 PM

Would air in the clutch circuit affect the brakes?

#173 OFFLINE   sierraman

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Posted 11 March 2019 - 08:23 PM

Maybe if the level in the reservoir dropped enough.

#174 OFFLINE   Remspoor

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Posted 12 March 2019 - 09:38 AM

Pug brakes are not bleed friendly.

There is a programme within the Planet  package which allows you to do the job correctly.


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#175 ONLINE   rainagain

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Posted 12 March 2019 - 09:40 AM

Pug brakes are not bleed friendly.

There is a programme within the Planet  package which allows you to do the job correctly.

 

I've got planet, do you have anymore info on which but of it I use and how?



#176 OFFLINE   sierraman

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Posted 12 March 2019 - 10:04 AM

Are you pressure bleeding the brakes?

#177 OFFLINE   Remspoor

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Posted 12 March 2019 - 10:16 AM

RE PP: It will be in the ABS section under actuator tests (I think)

Maybe this short video will help too.i know different car and it is not a clear video but it is perhaps the best one I can find that explains where to look.

 

 


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#178 ONLINE   rainagain

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Posted 12 March 2019 - 12:44 PM

Are you pressure bleeding the brakes?


Yes with a Gunson pressure bleed kit. I’ve got an Aldi vacuum fluid extractor, I’m tempted to hook that up but I think it’s better to force fluids out than risk sucking air in

#179 OFFLINE   sierraman

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Posted 12 March 2019 - 01:14 PM

I’d bleed the brakes in sequence including the clutch. Use the Eezibleed but make sure the seal isn’t fucked. I’d doubt you’ll have got air into the ABS unit.

#180 ONLINE   rainagain

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Posted 12 March 2019 - 03:36 PM

Do you bleed the clutch before or after the brakes?





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